Elvis Costello: Classic or Dud

Not to mention his most recent album, Wise Up Ghost, which he did with The Roots

Not sure how anyone could hear the differences between EC albums as "minimal," unless you consider the differences between all rock albums to be minimal.

and the songs that I remember were the ones I knew anyway

Even if this was your standard, I would be shocked if you knew less than, I dunno, 15 or 20 EC songs, which is a pretty nuts high number, and definitely pushes him beyond the realm of "singles act." (Save that category for Squeeze.) And anyway, even if you didn't think EC's singles or albums or album tracks or dozens of b-sides and one-offs and other things were worthwhile, the Attractions are an absolutely incredible and endlessly inventive band that is worth listening to on its own merits.

I'm not sure how many artists there are out there who drastically experiment between every record and still sound like themselves, but whatever that's a stupid way to judge an artist's body of work. But it's very hard to deny that Costello approached each album with different musical and thematic ideas--and it's very hard to mistake a song from This Year's Model for a song from, say, Get Happy!! despite identical personnel.

xxxpost:

Well, I didn't get that far in the discography - kinda figuring that getting 11 or 12 albums in was more than enough, and at this stage I don't really feel the need to investigate further given that the albums I heard were pretty much all of his so-called "canonical" ones.

But yeah, I was expecting to find a lot to like in Costello's discography given that I love his contributions to McCartney's Flowers in the Dirt and thought that as a producer he brought a great deal to Squeeze's East Side Story - unfortunately, I don't.

I can see why the likes of Rolling Stone liked this guy so much - putting out King of America in 1986 must have been right up their street. The rest of us had the Pet Shop Boys.

The biggest difference between This Year's Model and Get Happy!! was in the production.

Well I was just about to listen to an Elvis Costello record, but I forgot that I can't enjoy both Elvis Costello and Pet Shop Boys or else I would... make the Rolling Stones angry, or something?

xp well they were both produced by Nick Lowe, so obviously something changed, bud

I remember reading a post by Josh in Chicago a few years back where he stated that Costello might be more highly regarded today if he hadn't put out "too much music", which I disagree with a great deal. Prince, for example, couldn't have been any more prolific, but he's more highly regarded than Costello is today because his music was more interesting.

So you're saying that Elvis Costello falls into the broad category of "not as good as Prince" along with everybody else in the history of music give or take 10 people or so?

Yeah, but two years ago...

Nick Lowe was probably an even bigger trad. rock bore, tbh.

xxpost:

No, I'm saying that being prolific is not the reason that Elvis Costello isn't more highly regarded today. Do pay attention.

did you only listen to each album once, though? After a hits collection, my recommendations would be to pick up This Year's Model and stay with that for a while

With Cstello, it's not so much a matter of getting off (or on) the bus, but how you approach whichever stream..

Like, if some review goes "Yeah! A Return to the Attractionisms of "Brutal Youth" and "Blood and Choc"" then you might go hmm, let's give it a look. Or you might go "oh noe, what no Brodskys?". But then you might see one on Deutsche Grammophon and say "ah, now that's gonna be more like it"

Or, it might make you ponder " Elvis Costello: The Exact Moment When This Balding Fat Fucker Jumped The Shark "

xxpost:

No, I'm saying that being prolific is not the reason that Elvis Costello isn't more highly regarded today. Do pay attention.

― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:20 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm paying very close attention but also making fun of you for your stupid opinions

(Multi xp) Think one thing was that Roger Bechirian's engineering hand grew stronger beginning with Armed Forces.

now excuse me, i'm gonna go argue with a stick over there in that mud

xxxxxpost:

This isn't the first time I've given Costello a chance, last time was about five years ago or so. I reached pretty much the same conclusion then as I've done now, but I thought I'd try again just to be sure.

i'm paying very close attention but also making fun of you for your stupid opinions

― black covfefe in bed (voodoo chili), Wednesday, June 28, 2017 1:24 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Who knew that the Costello hardcore could get so butthurt?

it's fine with me if you don't like costello, but if it's because he didn't change or adapt enough between records, it means you weren't paying attention

the world wonders what a Nick Lowe-produced Pet Shop Boys would've sounded like

xpost Who knows what I was thinking, but I'm pretty sure I was talking about EC's career as a whole (perhaps in the "jump the shark" thread?). I'm a fan, and I only ("only") like 11 or 12 EC albums, most of which were released between 1977 and 1987. Coincidence, but that's pretty much all the Prince I regularly listen to as well - about 10 albums between 1978 and 1988. In both cases, that's plenty! And they both have tons of outtakes from those years to fill in the gaps.

Pick a parcel of Costello

A. This Years Model, Armed Forces,

B. Almost Blue, Spike, King of America

C. Blood and Chocolate, Brutal Youth, When I was cruel

D. The Juliet Letters, North

E. Painted from Memory, And so blummin on, etc.

I dunno, I'll stick with "10 bloody marys and 10 hows yr fathers" ...

I can hurl two or three reasons why EC might suck, but lackig tonal and structural variety aren't among them.

he world wonders what a Nick Lowe-produced Pet Shop Boys would've sounded like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlvcqJpJquA

(The story goes that he wrote "The Bay City Rollers We Love You" to get dropped by his label, but it became an accidental hit in Japan, so he wrote "Let's Go to the Disco" as a follow-up and it did the trick.)

xxxxxpost:

Well, you kinda have to pay a lot of attention to realise how minimal the differences are between the records, so...

Terry Modern! (Xpost)

(The story goes that he wrote "The Bay City Rollers We Love You" to get dropped by his label, but it became an accidental hit in Japan, so he wrote "Let's Go to the Disco" as a follow-up and it did the trick.)

xxp maybe YOU do

I can hurl two or three reasons why EC might suck, but lackig tonal and structural variety aren't among them.

I thought his book was really good, but mostly I left with a real respect for his musical knowledge, not just showoff muso stuff but a deep understanding of and curiosity about pop, soul, jazz, etc., how and what makes it work (and how to rip it off).

Unfortunately, that's what makes pretty much all of his music so backward-looking. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with that, but if your music is going to be so backward-looking, at least write songs that stand a chance of competing with what you're ripping off.

You mean like Shipbuilding or Beyond Belief or ... ?

that retro rockabilly raver "Green Shirt."

Clive Langer wrote the music for 'Shipbuilding' ... anyhow, I was familiar with that one long before I tried to get into Costello's work first time around and I still like it - one of the very few that I do. Wyatt's version being the ultimate, although I like Suede's version more than Costello's.

Wyatt's version being the ultimate, although I like Suede's version more than Costello's.

Yeah, Chet Baker notwithstanding..

(I Don't Want to Go to) Challops

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-mn-elvis-costello-20171207-htmlstory.html

In the movie “High Fidelity,” John Cusack’s record store owner loves to makes music lists. For “Top Five Angry Songs About Women,” he says, “You kind of have to start with Elvis Costello, but where?” Did you appreciate that line?

I don’t get that myself. I think it’s in the eye of the beholder. “Alison” … It’s “I know the world is killing you,” not “I am killing you.” I’m not being pedantic here. It says, “my aim is true.” I am responsible. It’s not like I want to kill you, but this love that we’re in isn’t going to work out.

There’s a lot of songs that are like that. People want to hear them as angry. I’ve even seen the “m-word” attached to my name lots of times. Misogynist.

I think the songs are more about being a young man trying to work out what those feelings are supposed to be about. I’m not always writing the idyllic love song because maybe somebody does that better than me. Some of it’s from real life. I’ve lived parts of those songs. But I don’t think they’re misogynistic. I wonder if the people who think that are the ones with the problem.

“Top Five Angry Songs About Women,”

"I don’t get that myself."

In which Elvis forgets all about Lipstick Vogue

is it misogynistic? i don't think so but it's such a great track

i don't think it's misogynistic, i don't think songs where a man is angry at a woman is necessarily misogynistic.

but it is extremely angry

true

EC was mad at everyone.

guys i finally cracked elvis costello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "new amsterdam"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! great song

I had to look up the lyrics to “Black and White World” this morning and was musing about Costello’s hubris leading to Get Happy! I used to DJ in college for KTRU in Houston, and we had this DJ named Justin who I knew who was very geeky about alternative rock (from what I remember his favorite band was Television). At one point I listened to a brief interview he did with Costello backstage in Houston (which would have been before my time, because our policy when I was there was very crust punk no major label ever goes on our playlist, although we still had a library of older more mainstream stuff). Justin starts breathlessly gushing about The Bevis Frond to Costello, and Costello says something like “Oh, I haven’t heard of them, they must be new.” Justin replies, “No, its an English guy who’s about your age.” Costello’s reply: “He must not be very good then if I haven’t heard of him.” I get that the kid was annoying you, but really, Declan?

(Speaking of KTRU, I once had the privilege of having the entire membership of Spoon apologize to me for putting on what they thought was a bad show, I guess because they thought I was the station manager. No, they put on a great set that opened with a cover of “I Can’t Stand It” by the Velvets, which six people saw in a muddy field in Houston in 1997 because our station manager, who shall remain nameless, didn’t promote the gig at all. It was an all-day festival we were putting on, and he also forgot to get lights for the stage. There was a big to do about procuring them the day of because the headliners of the show would be playing at night, which would be why he wasn’t there to be wrongly apologized to instead.)

Black & White World is my favorite tune on the whole album. Always thought it was some "real life is never as good as the fantasy" trip.

I recently watched the Live Stiffs tour documentary and he's very nearly absent from it. He's there, and he performs, but he's clearly out of place.

New wife and child? Unease (at that point) with road debauchery? Maybe the filmmakers wanted him to look like the mysterious proto-grownup. Someone makes a joke about Joe Loss and gets quickly shut down.

Is that where Ian Dury and Costello are competing to be the stars of the tour and Larry Wallis et al are competing to see who can get most pissed?