striving to sound like Bonham, like many drummers - but he doesn't, like many drummers
We drummers refer to it as "Bonhommage."
― nachismo (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:02 (six years ago) link
had always assumed that the only reason I loved it was that I hadn't developed any critical facilities yet. Compared to the gravitas of the Gabriel era, and even the prog-collins era, this stuff just scans as more throwaway.
fun >>> gravitas
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:03 (six years ago) link
Lord Alfred OTM
― nachismo (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:04 (six years ago) link
I think what undercuts the legacy of this album more than anything is the general goofiness/dorkiness of the band around this time: Phil's stage presence, his haircut, those spitting image puppets.
I definitely agree with this - particularly the haircut!
i loved this album as a 16-year-old (and this thread is definitely going to make me revisit it), but I had always assumed that the only reason I loved it was that I hadn't developed any critical facilities yet. Compared to the gravitas of the Gabriel era, and even the prog-collins era, this stuff just scans as more throwaway.
I disagree with this, obviously because I - first and foremost - think it's a great album, but also because while there's some stunning highlights on those Gabriel-era Genesis records, there's also plenty of it that's quite silly. People also talk about this era of Genesis thinking that it's easy to just suddenly start writing pop smashes - of course it isn't, and if it was Genesis would have done it sooner.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:06 (six years ago) link
a band whose singer wore scarlet dresses and a fox head had gravitas?
I'm not picking on you, enochroot!
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:08 (six years ago) link
Like, 'The Battle of Epping Forest' is far more complex and lengthier than 'Invisible Touch', but one is more successful at what it does than the other and it ain't the former.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:15 (six years ago) link
Until So and particularly the Sledgehammer video, Gabriel seemed a remote, menacing figure. The dress and fox head read as disturbing (and maybe disturbed) in its day. Phil was never convincing in that mode.
― dinnerboat, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:26 (six years ago) link
I liked this record fine - had it on cassette when I was perhaps 15. I don't think I liked it as much as Abacab, Face Value, or No Jacket Required (all of which I loved then and still admire).
To be sure, we were aware that there was more pop sheen than classic-rock groinal oomph. Around that time, my friends and I were starting to get into Zeppelin and Floyd and such, so we were shying away from pop radio. But Genesis were grandfathered in, so to speak, and so it was okay to like Invisible Touch. Also So and Graceland, for similar reasons.
I think I saw Throwing it All Away as Follow You Follow Me part 2.
― nachismo (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:33 (six years ago) link
I think the videos to 'In The Air Tonight' and 'Mama' are quite successful in conveying the more menacing side of Phil. On the whole, though, Phil seemed more content to be himself rather than go for a stage persona.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:36 (six years ago) link
dinnerboat, maybe - to a tweenaged FM audience, Shock the Monkey and Games Without Frontiers did seem a bit offputtingly weird amid the pop of the day. But Gabriel was known to have a cuddly side too, cf. Solsbury Hill and Biko.
Did I Have the Touch chart? I only heard it later.
― nachismo (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:38 (six years ago) link
As for "classic-rock groinal oomph", even in the Gabriel-era they were hardly the hardest rocking band around. Sure, they could do it, but I wish they'd done it more.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:40 (six years ago) link
Right, Turrican, I wasn't speaking of comparing them to their prior selves, but rather to other 1970s acts still active at that time. Petty, the Who.
― nachismo (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:43 (six years ago) link
Ah, gotcha!
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:45 (six years ago) link
xp Gabriel toured with death's head makeup (cf the first live album cover), then with a shaved his head at a time when skinheads were a thing. I think he liked scaring his audience early on, though it seems he came to see it as an insincere pose that So was meant to correct. Also, smh if Biko is your cuddly side.
― dinnerboat, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:51 (six years ago) link
...Oh and Springsteen too (re: bringing the groinal oomph).
DC had a classic rock station around this time that captured a lot of teenaged boys' ears, even if it was actually aimed at their older brothers or cool uncles (or even, gasp, their DADS). One could groove on Bad Company or Yes or whatever, and feel superior to those lame-os who were still stuck to the pop station with its Debbie Gibson and Menudo. Anyway they made a great show of bringing out "the latest from..." to show that those hoary old classic rock doodz could still Bring It.
The youngsters will never know how dynamically different 1984 seemed from 1987, and 1986 from 1990. But these differneces smooth out in retrospect.
― nachismo (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 16:55 (six years ago) link
difference between 1984 and 1987 was absolutely massive especially in terms of the tone colors and rhythms which dominated the charts, i would think it's still pretty obvious today to a youngster with a sharp ear
― or at night (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 17:32 (six years ago) link
OK, i just re-listened to the album for the first time in about 25 years (this was probably my favorite album in 1987, btw):- ok, fine: it holds up surprisingly well. i'll have to go dig out my tour shirt.- agreed on "Throwing It All Away" being their best single- why not more love for The Brazilian? I remember that being a highlight of their live show around this time.
Re: gravitas: Gabriel was creepy even in a giant flower costume. Phil Collins defaulted to hammy, which probably helped widen their audience, but not necessarily their credibility as serious musicians.
― enochroot, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
In Too Deep is heavily featured in Neil Jordan's excellent Mona Lisa. it depicts a truly bloody vile depths-of-the-Thatcher-era London and the use of the song is pretty much the only respite from the gloom and the horror.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
That's right! Wasn't the film releaesed in the UK in late spring '86? That would've made "In Too Deep" the first exposed track.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
June 86 aye. i'm no Genesis expert but i thought i recalled it being written for the film then added to the album which was the style at the time (Kate Bush writing This Woman's Work for She's Having A Baby etc..)
― piscesx, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:02 (six years ago) link
'Invisible Touch' was the first single - May '86.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:43 (six years ago) link
Although it's worth pointing out that while Invisible Touch was indeed the "bald Thriller" in the US, in the UK none of the singles were as successful as you'd think.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link
why not more love for The Brazilian? I remember that being a highlight of their live show around this time.
I love it! Particularly the percussion...
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:52 (six years ago) link
BLOOD ON THE WINDOWS!MILLIONS OF ORDINARY PEOPLE ARE THERE!
http://i1.getsurrey.co.uk/incoming/article7098556.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/Phil-Collins.jpg
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Thursday, 13 July 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
Coming out the woodwork, through the open doorPushing from above and belowShadows without substance, in the shape of menRound and down and sideways they goAdrift without direction, eyes that hold despair
http://www.paradisefoundaround.com/wp-content/uploads/disney_tarzan_jane_hands-680x383.jpg?74f3cb
― nachismo (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 13 July 2017 20:20 (six years ago) link
Best track on this record: all of them.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:45 (six years ago) link
What makes this record an incredible achievement is that is not just superior to everything else that Genesis put out from 1981 onwards, but in terms of quality and songwriting it knocks Phil Collins' solo work into a cocked hat, too. It's a real diamond in the rough.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:51 (six years ago) link
IT is so blatantly commercial -- bully for them -- making a record with sales up the wazoo, videos on constant MTV rotation, entering the cultural confab; none too bad for some old white prog guys. The band changed their trajectory in a radical fashion even if this was the direction they were already heading. All these tracks sound far more dated than those from albums a decade earlier.
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 14:39 (six years ago) link
It took them years to write a perfect pop song. Their first attempt was 'I Know What I Like', and they got close with 'Follow You Follow Me', 'Turn It On Again' and 'That's All' ... but this album is where they finally nailed it, particularly on the title track, and they did it while keeping their inherent progginess intact. It was still prog in places, just a different kind of prog.
I agree that the album sounds like it was released in 1986, but that's to be expected given that it was. Dated is not a pejorative.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 15:58 (six years ago) link
Duke does not sound like it was made in 1980, nor does Trespass sound like 1970 -- IT was of it's time; fine hits, but in the end, derivative. Take your classic rock-whatever, Moving Pictures, Women and Children First, Tres Hombres... as fresh today as ever. IT is in a box, and, a small one; especially when compared to the rest of their catalog. Why do so many equate an album's quality with the number of hits it has? ....a foolhardy pursuit.
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 16:29 (six years ago) link
Those albums also sound like they were released in the year in which they were released.
I disagree that Invisible Touch is derivative, particularly since the average pop artist of 1986 wasn't putting out tracks like 'Domino' or the full version of 'Tonight, Tonight, Tonight' ...
You seem to be under the impression that writing pop hits is an easy thing to do. It isn't.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 16:48 (six years ago) link
pop hits are mostly either by design or by chance; in this case, having a pop-derived disposition lessened the impact of a once powerful group of uncompromising artisans -- starting to chase tails here, but Peter also went down the same rabbit-hole with Sledgehammer, et al (but could Collins have ever even conceived of anything as brilliant as the Passion OMPS? Apples and Oranges, Turd.
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
Dream Theatre used to say writing a good pop song was mind blowing to them because the shit they wrote was so freeform in comparison.
But they suck so...
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 16 July 2017 17:29 (six years ago) link
xpost:
I'd say that as a pop song, 'Invisible Touch' has a lot of impact - as a tune, it's truly uplifting and joyous and the lyric is a theme that anyone over a certain age can relate to. The album as a whole certainly had enough "impact" to speak to a great number of people. Seems to me that you're irked that 10 minute epics about dungeons and dragons weren't speaking to a great number of people in 1986, including the band themselves. The bands melodic sense and desire to do something different remained intact, even if it didn't always work - see: the two LP's prior to Invisible Touch.
I've mentioned before that I don't reall like Phil's solo stuff, so I don't see what that has to do with anything, as well as Gabriel vs. Collins talk when Banks and Rutherford were the ones running the show.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 17:39 (six years ago) link
I think we've established at this stage that bodacious ignoramus is a rockist prone to throwing juvenile hissy fits when his belief system is called into question, though.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 17:43 (six years ago) link
troll-bait
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 17:55 (six years ago) link
Well I've been waiting, waiting here so longBut thinking nothing, nothing could go wrong, but now I knowShe has a built in abilityTo take everything she seesAnd now it seems I'm falling, falling for her.
I don't really know her, I only know her nameBut she crawls under your skin, you're never quite the same, and now I knowShe's got something you just can't trustIt's something mysteriousAnd now it seems I'm falling, falling for her.
She don't like losing, to her it's still a gameThough she'll mess up your life, you'll want her just the same, now I knowShe has a built in abilityTo take everything she seesAnd now it seems I've fallen, fallen for her.
She seems to have an invisible touch yeahShe reaches in, grabs right hold of your heartShe seems to have an invisible touch yeahIt takes control and slowly tears you apart.
Rinse and repeat.
...i'm beside myself with the lyrical depth --- the two albums previous to IT have tracks are that are far more inventive than anything on IT... dungeons and dragons notwithstanding.
Well, at least you're admitting it.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 17:59 (six years ago) link
As I've said, 'Invisible Touch' has a lyrical theme that pretty much anyone over a certain age can relate to. If you can't, then fair enough, but I guess that says a lot. If you're relying on wacky stories about hypersexual Victorian ghosts, the human race being turned into a bunch of short-arses, or a bird stealing some guys dick to make you feel like the deep intellectual you think you are, but aren't, then also fair enough.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 18:05 (six years ago) link
exhausted and bored -- meld to your flaccid 2112-version of the future; wait for me there.
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 18:16 (six years ago) link
...and you can buy the beers!
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
*cranks up Invisible Touch*
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 18:20 (six years ago) link
off topic, but cranks......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_duQibI3Nvo
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 18:22 (six years ago) link
I can't keep up with all these threads tbh
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 16 July 2017 19:02 (six years ago) link
This is the one where people are arguing about Genesis. HTH
― didgeridon't (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 16 July 2017 19:42 (six years ago) link
In the beginning ...
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 16 July 2017 20:02 (six years ago) link
As I've said, 'Invisible Touch' has a lyrical theme that pretty much anyone over a certain age can relate to.
tf is this self parody
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Sunday, 16 July 2017 22:14 (six years ago) link
Nope, just the truth.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 16 July 2017 22:20 (six years ago) link
Trollo, Lurker.
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Sunday, 16 July 2017 22:49 (six years ago) link
sadness, and i'm 49 - turd must be 109
― bodacious ignoramus, Sunday, 16 July 2017 22:51 (six years ago) link