is sexy sadie basic rock or blues
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:32 (six years ago) link
It's a typical Lennon song performed with piano, guitar, bass and drums. Psychedelic or avant-garde it ain't.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
ah
so why is this discussion happening again
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
there’s one avant garde song on this record. super weird that none of the other songs are avant garde
Well observed!
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
i just think you’re bad at listening to and describing music
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
like who gives a shit if you think the white album is patchy. that’s part of its appeal for the ppl who love it
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:52 (six years ago) link
I think you're bad at reading, comprehending and drawing conclusions.
But since you asked, this discussion is happening because some folks have read far too much into The Beatles' self titled album from 1968.
I'd much rather be talking about how great Tusk is, but there you go.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
As far as I'm aware, The Beatles was generally considered to be a patchy record on release. So I guess this is like Gaucho in the sense that people got it right in the first place.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link
The Gaucho was Paul, BTW.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 30 October 2017 19:08 (six years ago) link
-----George Martin wasn't always around; the record's mostly self-produced.
Geoff Emerick was though, the sound/roughness is all as intended.
― albvivertine, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:16 (six years ago) link
Brad totally otm above
Not even Geoff Emerick was around all the time.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:27 (six years ago) link
divining intent re: "sloppiness" is a fool's game
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:29 (six years ago) link
Luckily we have a fool to hand.
― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:30 (six years ago) link
quite
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
Guys, it's 2017 and not all of you are baby boomers clinging onto the notion that things were, like, soooooo much better back in the day - it's fully acceptable to admit that not everything The Beatles did was/is great and you can call out these records for what they are instead of listening to 'em through the layers of bullshit mythology that's accumulated over the decades.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
Spoken like a true Fleetwood Mac fan.
― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:37 (six years ago) link
hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:39 (six years ago) link
Aside from 'Revolution 9', 'Good Night' and 'Piggies', that's just a series of folk or rock songs.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, October 27, 2017 3:20 PM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
come on dude you can say this about literally any album
tusk? that's just a series of pop songs.a love supreme? that's just a series of jazz songsto pimp a butterfly? that's just a series of rap songs
― marcos, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:40 (six years ago) link
Well, y'know, I don't think about the break-up's and affairs when I listen to Rumours or Tusk - the music stands strong apart from all that backstory stuff, as great music should.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:41 (six years ago) link
strong disagreement from me there
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:42 (six years ago) link
http://www.manowar-gallery.com/Gallery/Other_Recordings/Death_To_False_Metal/death_mc_II_g.jpg
― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link
esp given how willfully built around that mythology something like Rumours is, what with Stevie using her diary entries to compose lyrics etc., so much self-absorbed "confessional" crap all over the place.
I know I am in the minority as a Mac hater (see also: Bruce Willis, Michael Jackson) but I have a hard time peeling back the layers of bullshit from the Nicks-Buckingham era to get to anything interesting
xp
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:47 (six years ago) link
tusk? that's just a series of pop songs.
Hmmyeah, I don't think anyone is disputing this.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:49 (six years ago) link
i am very open to contrarian opinions that try to undo received wisdom and canonization, unfortunately this opinion is the product of like, inattentive listening and bullshit posturing (just like the opinion about gaucho expressed pointlessly upthread and throughout several threads about that record) bc the white album is a great record, it sometimes feels like listening to three albums at once, even when i don’t like a song on it i’m drawn in by the vibe and atmosphere which yes is v shambolic that’s why it’s good
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:52 (six years ago) link
like my answer to the thread’s question is tusk bc that album is v v important to me and shaped my taste v early on but i don’t feel the need to be a huge shithead about it, telling truths about how the white album isn’t actually that good or whatever. how dumb. why listen to or think about music like that ever
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
'Go Your Own Way' and 'You Make Loving Fun' would still be perfect pop that is impeccably produced and well written and performed even if the lyrics to the songs were complete fantasy. It's actually quite easy to ignore the backstory and not invest in the soap opera element, which doesn't really interest me. What interests me more about that era of Fleetwood Mac is the vocal blend, Lindsey's guitar playing and the hooks.
(xxpost)
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:56 (six years ago) link
also gaucho slaps front to back, you’re wrong, log off
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:56 (six years ago) link
i am very open to contrarian opinions that try to undo received wisdom and canonization, unfortunately this opinion is the product of like, inattentive listening and bullshit posturing
...or in other words: "Wahhhhhh! I don't like what I'm reading, so I'll throw my rattle out of the pram!"
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:02 (six years ago) link
One of the benefits of being gay is I don't listen to music and hear biography. It's quite easy to listen to TUSK without the Mac mythos, thank you.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:02 (six years ago) link
It's actually quite easy to ignore the backstory and not invest in the soap opera element, which doesn't really interest me.
EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY, IT DOESN'T INTEREST TURRICAN, LETS NOT DISCUSS IT
― brimstead, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
the vocal blend, Lindsey's guitar playing and the hooks
idk these just don't do it for me, they just feel of a piece with any number of lite/country-rock 70s bands like the Little River Band or the Doobie Brothers or the Eagles or some shit. there's a gloss and some competent harmonizing and everything's clean and smooth but I just don't give a fuck about it, much less think it's *amazing* And I've never really read any effusive praise of Mac that *didn't* go into the mythology/backstory, I feel like that's always brought in at some point - as a selling point for how emotionally impactful and "deep" the songs are, the pain and complex emotions being conveyed - and it feels like weak sauce. There's any other number of 70s classic rock dinosaurs that engage me on just a technical and performative and compositional level (Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Heart, ZZ Top, Steely Dan on and on) and the Mac don't cut it.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
dude listen to "albatross"
― brimstead, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
And I've never really read any effusive praise of Mac that *didn't* go into the mythology/backstory
oh give me a break, try ILX threads praising FM for starters
― brimstead, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:06 (six years ago) link
and if you're talking about rolling stone magazine or something, who cares
they just feel of a piece with any number of lite/country-rock 70s bands like the Little River Band or the Doobie Brothers or the Eagles or some shit.
dude seriously
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:07 (six years ago) link
turrican doesn’t read this board, he just posts here
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:07 (six years ago) link
oh lol sorry that was shakey. shakey you’re wrong
Hopper's breakdown of Rumours here goes explicitly into the autobiographical nature of each song
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/17499-rumours/
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
also i’m pretty pro little river band and the doobies
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
Shakey, if you don't hear what distinguishes the British blues rhythm section + and their husky-voiced emollient anchoring a pair of Californian weirdos with odd senses of harmony and one of whom had a ear for the possibilities of the studio as sharp as Eno's, then, yeah, Fleetwood Mac sound like Little River Band and Pablo Cruise.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
fleetwood are definitely no zz top, lol
― brimstead, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
wait LITTLE RIVER BAND?!? oh dear
― brimstead, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
He opens the record with the libidinous "Second Hand News", inspired by the redemption Buckingham was finding in new women, post-Stevie.
... "Second Hand News" is followed by a twist-of-the-knife Stevie-showpiece, "Dreams", a gauzy ballad about what she'd had and what she'd lost with Buckingham.
... "Songbird" starts as a plaintive ode of fealty and how total her devotion-- until the sad tell of "And I wish you all the love in the world/ But most of all I wish it from myself," (an especially heart-wrenching line given that McVie's not quite ex-husband was dragging a rebound model chick to the sessions and Christine was sneaking around with a member of the crew).
... and so much more
― Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
I'm pretty smug about never once using their relationships as a key to unlock those deeply strange pop albums.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:11 (six years ago) link
ok.. that's not why people care about those songs... they're just great songs. people aren't critics.
― brimstead, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:11 (six years ago) link
that certainly is one piece of writing about fleetwood mac
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:11 (six years ago) link
xxp
but why does a critic's weakness for the mythos affect your enjoyment? I don't get this conflation of biography + music, it's so bizarre to me.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link