For band that has like 2.5 good songs there sure have an awful lot of drama.
"I don’t feel sorry for him. I do think he needs to get an MRI though."
This is a sleeper I think
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 15 February 2018 21:54 (six years ago) link
They have a lot of good songs, but yes they do need to get over themselves.
― Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Thursday, 15 February 2018 23:45 (six years ago) link
2.5 is about right
They are the American suede I think in that they provide more non-music than music content of note
― rum dmc (darraghmac), Friday, 16 February 2018 01:08 (six years ago) link
I think Corgan is an absolute failure as a human being and hate everything he has chosen to be but D’Arcy is being as terrible as him or worse by bringing this beef to the media. Noone has truly cared about them for 20+ years and they want to be brought back on this childish bullshit. Fuck them both.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 07:24 (six years ago) link
I began to wonder at one point if it could all have been a daring marketing ploy - play up the rift to generate media and fan interest and then reconcile last moment and the four of them appear on stage the first night of tour.... bingo, late ticket sales go through roof.
― brain (krakow), Saturday, 17 February 2018 10:53 (six years ago) link
2.5 feels generous. I like the one in the camper van.
― Big Ched aka The Cheesedriver (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 February 2018 12:43 (six years ago) link
darragh I think u typed suede when u meant oasis
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 17 February 2018 14:33 (six years ago) link
yeah wtf
― lowercase (eric), Saturday, 17 February 2018 14:40 (six years ago) link
Noone has truly cared about them for 20+ years
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:24 AM
Seems like plenty of people still care.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 February 2018 14:55 (six years ago) link
I misspeak and I am often autocorrected but I almost never fully mistype
― rum dmc (darraghmac), Saturday, 17 February 2018 15:45 (six years ago) link
actually Oasis beef is way more fun than any of this
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 17 February 2018 15:48 (six years ago) link
yeah that's absurd to think no one cares about this. pumpkins are one of the few huge bands of the grunge era where no one has OD'ed and died yet. A full reunion would be massive news; even the 3/4 reunion is pretty big news; I'm quite sure those arena shows will sell very well.
― akm, Saturday, 17 February 2018 16:52 (six years ago) link
I still listen to them of course but their past albums haven’t sold even enough to get RIAA gold certification even counting streams. Most of the fans left the boat after Machina, some of them even after Adore.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:12 (six years ago) link
There is a huge contingent of millennial & gen z fans tho. I am 25, have been obsessed with SP for 8 years, and the uptick in interest and general knowledge about the band has skyrocketed in the past 2 or 3 years.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:18 (six years ago) link
and “huge” = enough to not make this tour a flop
But did they become fans by listening to anything they’ve released since 2000?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:28 (six years ago) link
Didn’t really explain myself before saying that, of course people still care to see them live, they still care about the band and Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream are probably considered classic rock standards and at this point and will continue to sell and be streamed by newer generations. It’s their new music that hasn’t really caught on and the one people don’t care about. Corgan knows this and that’s why he’s trying to bring the gang together. He’s doing it the wrong way though, inviting James Iha and D’arcy to play live is one thing but he should have done the upcoming record with them if he truly wants fans to relive the experience... doesn’t matter if the result is subpar. As to why he invites them to play live but not on record I’ve no idea. Greed? I agree with D’arcy being angry about that particular aspect.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:36 (six years ago) link
Adore is now considered on par with the first three for one. James wasn’t able to participate in these sessions bc he was busy with APC. I think there’s a lot we don’t know about D’arcy’s situation that the band knows and are kindly and wisely not revealing. The kids want to see the band play their classic material. Billy has already tried to push the new stuff. I actually think this could work bc if the shows go well a lot of people will leave with a much higher opinion of the band as they are now, and will be more inclined to listen to anything new when it comes out. Like Soundgarden or something
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:48 (six years ago) link
I know of at least one person who got into the band with Oceania and hadn't heard of a note of their music before - so yes, it happens.
― Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:49 (six years ago) link
yea Oceania was definitely the best/ most successful SP2 record
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:50 (six years ago) link
As to why he invites them to play live but not on record I’ve no idea. Greed? I agree with D’arcy being angry about that particular aspect.
I've never been a fan, but I always thought the whole deal was that in the studio it was pretty much Corgan doing everything but the drums?
― grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:53 (six years ago) link
Yep for the most part
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:54 (six years ago) link
I've heard all of their 90s albums and Machina but not Siamese Dream. I think I know I'm guilty of 'doing Smashing Pumpkins wrong'
― PaulTMA, Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:03 (six years ago) link
"But did they become fans by listening to anything they’ve released since 2000?"
no but that's the point of reunions and revival tours which this is.
― akm, Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:17 (six years ago) link
" I always thought the whole deal was that in the studio it was pretty much Corgan doing everything but the drums?"
she seems to take issue with that in the interview.
― akm, Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:18 (six years ago) link
've never been a fan, but I always thought the whole deal was that in the studio it was pretty much Corgan doing everything but the drums?
― grawlix (unperson)
Well yeah there’s this too, iirc James did record some things but almost every bassline on the albums was actually Billy. D’arcy complaining about not being invited to play on the album is nonsense.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:24 (six years ago) link
Her word against half a dozen others: not only Billy, but Jimmy, James, Butch Vig, Flood, Alan Moulder, Brad Wood, Eric Remschneider. She makes tons of factual errors, like thinking they did MCIS in Atlanta. It’s also pretty easy to distinguish Billy and D’arcy’s bass playing: Billy is more aggressive and bright (Today & I of the Mourning), D’arcy is much more atmospheric and softer (Luna, Porcelina, Shame).
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:27 (six years ago) link
no one has OD'ed and died yet
Jeez, not for lack of trying!
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:27 (six years ago) link
Billy confirmed she played bass on Luna as a compromise bc she was so upset about being left out making SD. Listen to that song vs. something like Hummer or Today and it becomes obvious.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:28 (six years ago) link
Well she’s either a terrible bass player that can’t even play root notes and/or Corgan is a control freak. Probably a mixture of both. Then why keep her around at all for so many years? To have a token rock chick in your band?
I’d say reach out to Melissa Auf Der Mar (supposing she doesn’t hate Billy too) I’d be more interested in seeing her live than D’Arcy at this point.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:34 (six years ago) link
That said I symphatize with D’Arcy must be a self-esteem struggle to identify yourself as the bass player from a famous band while knowing you’ve no real input and considered to terrible to play root notes and you’re really just there to make the band look cool.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:37 (six years ago) link
pumpkins are one of the few huge bands of the grunge era where no one has OD'ed and died yet.except that one guy who OD'ed and died, during the grunge era
― Haribo Hancock (sic), Saturday, 17 February 2018 18:45 (six years ago) link
pretty sure one member (not Billy) OD'ed and survived. forgot who.
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:39 (six years ago) link
xp:
Yes, that guy who was not one of the four official members of The Smashing Pumpkins.
― Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:41 (six years ago) link
Lots of millenials love the Pumpkins in a way that is not happening for Pearl Jam for some reason.
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:42 (six years ago) link
and yes a female bassist was such a prop in the post-Nirvana success major label signings.
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:44 (six years ago) link
She's definitely up there with Lars Ulrich's dad in terms documentary potential
― sarahell, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:44 (six years ago) link
2.5 being the aggregated total of goodness in all their songs combined
― sarahell, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:47 (six years ago) link
2.5 discography goodness in their 1 discography
― lowercase (eric), Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:51 (six years ago) link
or less charitably if you split sp1 and sp2
― lowercase (eric), Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:52 (six years ago) link
i mean, i gotta give points to the "despite all my rage, i am still just a rat in a cage" song, because the vocals really are rodent-like, and I did enjoy that
― sarahell, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:54 (six years ago) link
pretty sure one member (not Billy) OD'ed and survived. forgot who.― Van Horn Street, Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:39 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:39 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yep, as Josh said upthread it wasn't for lack of trying. Chamberlin was a mess for years.
― Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:56 (six years ago) link
To my ear Smashing Pumpkins have like 2.5 good riffs and no actual good songs, because songs involve singing, and Corgan's voice is one of the worst sounds in the history of pop and rock music.
― grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:57 (six years ago) link
part of me wants to start a semantic argument based in musical history and theory on the definition of "song" -- but I think I'll just vehemently agree with you about how awful Corgi's voice is
― sarahell, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:59 (six years ago) link
Lots of millenials love the Pumpkins in a way that is not happening for Pearl Jam for some reason.― Van Horn Street, Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:42 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:42 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's because the dreampop/goth/New Wave/synthpop elements of their sound chime better with that particular audience that Pearl Jam's hairy old school rockisms.
― Full of bile and Blue Nile denial (Turrican), Saturday, 17 February 2018 20:04 (six years ago) link
it's interesting how of the 2 of the most famous 'alternative' nineties bands both have male singers that require an... err.. acquired taste to say the least.
― Ludo, Saturday, 17 February 2018 20:40 (six years ago) link
had to think for a second if you meant nirvana or radiohead
― lowercase (eric), Saturday, 17 February 2018 20:49 (six years ago) link
So which one was it?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 17 February 2018 21:05 (six years ago) link
it's not that simple. first of all, she wasn't a terrible bass player. listen to any pre-1999 show and the whole "D'arcy sucks" myth disappears. And the idea that SP bass lines are the way they are because D'arcy couldn't handle anything complicated is silly- like someone said in the other thread, that's just how the band and Billy wrote their songs. they are a guitar driven band, Jimmy plays to Billy's guitar, not D'arcy's bass. that's an aesthetic decision, not a practical necessity.
However, her playing severely declined in 1999. Two example: here's "I Am One" in 1993, shortly after the release of Siamese Dream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2fJzcNd7Rw
and here's a soundboard recording of a show from April 1999 that opens with "I Am One." her playing, not only in the song but throughout the show, is awful. this is right before she left or was fired.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEkw7jJR2Wg
MADM is great but I never understood why she was considered any more of a legitimate member than any of the other hired guns the band got in 2007 or on the Adore tour.
again, the idea that she had "no real input" is simply false and D'arcy & Billy have both said as much. she even says it in this new interview, that she was there to reign Billy in not only when he was being an insane asshole but also creatively. he's written about how much he trusted her opinion while writing & recording & deciding what songs go on the record. there's a mutual respect there that isn't brought up enough.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 21:17 (six years ago) link
She's considered more of a member at least because people know her name.To that end, I totally forgot a friend of mine from college was in the last real incarnation of this group. I I had no idea until I saw the two final Chicago shows and thought, hey, wait a minute ...
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 February 2018 21:32 (six years ago) link
look can we get this thread back on track and start laughing at billy corgan again pls
― Occupation Propaganda dog (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 19 February 2018 13:09 (six years ago) link
yes they do m8
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 February 2018 12:49 (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
We will not fall out over it
― rum dmc (darraghmac), Monday, 19 February 2018 13:12 (six years ago) link
The Pumpkins were a lot gothier than Pearl Jam and that pretty much guarantees you'll continue to appeal to enough teenagers in decades to come. I guess the whole earnestness of Pearl Jam would probably appeal more to Generation Snowflake if it wasn't for Vedder's voice and his array of terrible imitators.
― Matt DC, Monday, 19 February 2018 13:56 (six years ago) link
have we done a poll on whether corgan or vedder has the more horrible voice
― Occupation Propaganda dog (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 19 February 2018 13:59 (six years ago) link
ah cmon thats not evena real contest
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 19 February 2018 14:01 (six years ago) link
or is it
― NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 19 February 2018 14:02 (six years ago) link
eddie vedder at least sounds like a human male while corgan sounds like a sentient nose
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 19 February 2018 14:06 (six years ago) link
https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/sites/thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/files/Veale-nose2.jpg
DESPITE ALL MY RAGE I AM STILL JUST A RAT INNA CAGE
ahah, speaking of BC's voice, playing the "I Am One" 93 video, I actually laughed when he started to "sing".It sounds more like a an angry crow !
― AlXTC from Paris, Monday, 19 February 2018 14:12 (six years ago) link
Billy Corgan sounds like Jon Lovitz as Annoying Man.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 19 February 2018 14:12 (six years ago) link
Vedder's voice and his array of terrible imitators.Oh god yes why did that happen? An infinite array.
― El Tomboto, Monday, 19 February 2018 14:19 (six years ago) link
Just imagine if there were an array of Corgan imitators.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 19 February 2018 14:24 (six years ago) link
Oh god yes why did that happen?
you can only seem like you really mean it if you sing like a bull trying to force its way through a fence iirc
― NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 19 February 2018 14:26 (six years ago) link
Like a lowing cow.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 19 February 2018 14:32 (six years ago) link
a phased array of billy corgans looking for MiGs
― Dat Login was the dname u doofus (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 19 February 2018 17:30 (six years ago) link
― sarahell, Saturday, 17 February 2018 19:47 (two days ago) Permalink
Oh yeah for real they certainly don't have a single song that's good from front to back.
Further break down:4 neat ideas, two good riffs, a solid chorus, drums are "cool" a few times=2.5 songs.
I saw them in 1991 just pre-fame opening for Red Hot Chili Peppers and Corgan was hugely insufferable at the show so they could like...cure cancer and I'd still be like "2.5 good songs"
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 19 February 2018 17:53 (six years ago) link
where did you see them in 1991? just curious, there might be a recording of that show and i'd be interested in hearing... the gish shows were pretty wild
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 February 2018 17:54 (six years ago) link
They have at least 50 great songs.
― crüt, Monday, 19 February 2018 17:56 (six years ago) link
people who think they're just the worst band are so weird to me, it's like y'all don't even have ears
― crüt, Monday, 19 February 2018 17:57 (six years ago) link
xxpost
Roy Wilkins Auditorium in St Paul, MN which is notoriously an impossibly bad sounding concrete box/ex-hockey venue.
Someone threw an ice cube at Billy at one point and he stopped the show to yell at the crowd and threaten to walk off "You want to throw something? Throw it at my face" so obviously the instant he turned around a rain of ice pelted the stage. No walk off but they were like super-turgid, doing these jams on every song which I don't think was winning everyone over.
Pearl Jam also played.
I don't think they are the worst band. The worst band would be far more interesting.
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 19 February 2018 18:00 (six years ago) link
Number of Good Songs Had By the Smashing Pumkings
time to resolve this dispute with science
― Big Ched aka The Cheesedriver (Noodle Vague), Monday, 19 February 2018 18:02 (six years ago) link
lol @ those poll options
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 February 2018 18:02 (six years ago) link
They have the 70 songs from 2-71 on the list of the greatest songs ever
― rum dmc (darraghmac), Monday, 19 February 2018 18:07 (six years ago) link
xxpostRoy Wilkins Auditorium in St Paul, MN which is notoriously an impossibly bad sounding concrete box/ex-hockey venue.Someone threw an ice cube at Billy at one point and he stopped the show to yell at the crowd and threaten to walk off "You want to throw something? Throw it at my face" so obviously the instant he turned around a rain of ice pelted the stage. No walk off but they were like super-turgid, doing these jams on every song which I don't think was winning everyone over.Pearl Jam also played.I don't think they are the worst band. The worst band would be far more interesting.― chr1sb3singer
― chr1sb3singer
dang, no extant recording or known setlist. it was November 30, 1991 fwiw
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 February 2018 18:18 (six years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Friday, 16 March 2018 00:01 (six years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Saturday, 17 March 2018 00:01 (six years ago) link
I saw them in ’91, Detroit show, opening (w/Pearl Jam) for RHCP. Pumpkins were great. The other two, not so much. PJ were goofy (I thought “These guys are going nowhere”) and RHCP were in “bored professionals” mode.
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Saturday, 17 March 2018 17:56 (six years ago) link