Velvet Underground: Live 1969 vs. Grateful Dead: Live/Dead

hell yeah, there need to be more lo-fi aud dead tapes and fewer crispy boards

i don't even know what makes a board "crispy" for that matter

nothing against betty boards mind you but especially with a band like the dead the vibe is important

glad this stuff is still downloadable from the archive, stream is nice but only goes so far

speaking of which, whitehallunity's post on 6/14/68 had me checking out the monterey 6/14/69 dark star

it was good! i've never been into '69 dark stars previously, not even the "live/dead", but damn i liked this one. anyone got a dl link? i don't think it's ever been released and i couldn't find any live torrents. lossy wd be fine

im all giddy right now queuing up this 6/14/68 show

and great essay man

velvet underground was mostly bland/boring

And Lovelight on Live 69 still sucks!

Listening to the Skull & Roses album earlier, I was struck by how “The Other One” (Live at Fillmore East, 4/28/71) kind of has a VU 1969 sound.

I almost expected to hear Lou’s voice come in – “Spanish lady come to me….”

Skull and Roses now getting thee Deeluxe 50th Anniversary treatment, even though Live/Dead did not(and even though L/D is better).
It's best to get The Complete Matrix Tapes and Live 1969, because each has stuff the other doesn't: the former is complete, the latter also has toasty Texas tapes. I could live w out some Matrix bits (glad to see that Live 1969 assembler Paul Nelson left out some impulsively rawwky, corny guitar ventures), but it's always good to have complete, so can pick and chose faves.

I love S&R, it was the album that finally made the Dead "click" for me... something about the energy of the performances, idk

I like both groups, but nothing from Live/Dead or Live 1969 except the CD bonus track "I Can't Stand It". Don't know why these records seem so inert to me (though I'm not into live albums as a rule).

haven't heard the CDs, don't know how they compare audio-wise w the orig. 2-LP---which always sounded enough like an audience tape that it's unlikely to win over listeners who aren't into live albums as a rule (also some who are).

Although in my case, playing music louder usually helps.

OK, there is someone here who has heard "Live 1969" and likes nothing from it *backs slowly out of room*

I wouldn’t worry about it, the VU are not a big college town band.

The jams they play would not excite you.

(xp) He didn't like their new direction

There was always the minority take:
live VU can be awesome but 69 live is dull as dishwater imo. I know lotsa people love that jangly pastoral VU style but to me it really amplifies a lot of weaknesses in Lou's writing, weaknesses that can be submerged in pure volume.

― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Sunday, May 24, 2015
Don't agree that it's just jangly or that there are important weaknesses in Lou's VU songs, but either way, the Gymnasium set is a satisfying Cale-era onslaught, prob still posted here and there.

― dow, Sunday, May 24, 2015 10:23 AM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

"heavenly wine and roses seems to whisper to me when you smile"

Delmore Schwartz lols from the grave at that line

― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Sunday, May 24, 2015
Agree that it's almost Lou's worst VU-era line, though at least sounds drunk, like the guy waitin' for Jane may well be, so in context not too bad----"remember that the city is just a flower made out of clay" is the one that makes me want to dig him up and kill him again.

(Don't remember why I mentioned the Gymnasium set just then, but yeah it's very strong in its way duh)

dow -- do you prefer the Matrix Tapes to the Quine Tapes?

Minority take from known contrarian shocka

dow -- do you prefer the Matrix Tapes to the Quine Tapes?

Preferring the Quine Tapes truly would be contrarian.

What if I like them both?

I like them both.

Was wondering, figured as much.

dow not the contrarian, that was Chachi Aerosmith, but you probably already knew that.

Enjoy the Andy Griffith whistling during “I’m Waiting for the Man” but that’s the first track on both so it’s still a tossertossup.

xpost I'm another liker of both Complete Matrix and Quine Tapes---been a while, but seem to recall thinking that The Complete Matrix was more revelatory.
Would like to hear the show w 14-minute "Run Run Run," mentioned on Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question.
ditto The Velvet Underground ETC, and the other one incl. Reed apprenticeships---The Velvet Underground And So On?

In another news, not sure if I can justify liking Sterling’s spidery, fiddly playing but not ever having been able to acclimate to Jerry’s. Unless maybe it has something to with drummers, vocalists,”lyricists, etc.

Put Jerry on your shoulder.

Which locution first appeared here: Guess I'm Polling in Love: The Lou Reed Memorial Velvet Underground (and solo material) Ballot Poll Thread

xp Maybe it's the rhythm guitar? Lou's amphetamine groove rolling through songs like a bowling ball vs. Bobby's spacey sketches batting the songs around like a beachball.

Yes, thanks, I thought about that as well, good description.

Some good Garth Hudson-lite stuff from Doug on Matrix “Black Angel’s Death Song.”

And the bass is played by…Sterling?

Some lineup on “Venus and Furs” I guess. Sorry, never paid attention until just now.

Velvet Dead convergence was sometimes said of early live Television (also
15 60 75 The Numbers Band's 1976 live debut album,Jimmy Bell's Still in Town). Think Verlaine mentioned being an xpost John Cippolina fan or appreciator, like Sterling, don't recall comments about Garcia or Dead.
Thee man himself showed up on Man's live Maximum Darkness:
Rumours that Micky Jones had to over-dub Cipollina’s guitar, as it was out of tune, before the album could be released,[4] are greatly exaggerated. Only one track, "Bananas", had to have his playing removed/replaced, per Deke Leonard: "Everything ... which sounds like Cipollina is Cipollina."[5] O U Wiki Kid!

I had to stare at that for a long while looking for an ‘e’ to make sure it wasn’t the drummer Mickey Jones, who I recently discovered was there near the beginning when Joe Osborn discovered The Carpenters.

That's (sic) in main Man article too---Wiki doesn't have one for him specifically, but Man entry goes on to detail several of his later bands. like the Flying Pigs (also backed a "Welsh Elvis impersonator"). Thought he was Mickey or Mick Jones of Foreigner, but def. not. Good with Man, though!

(Terry Williams had no prob playing w druggy jammy Man *and* Rockpile, so too bad he wasn't in later VU.)

(Feel like deep down in his pounding-like-a-hammer heart of hearts he preferred playing on the ginormous kit with Direct Straits)

(Hah, Fab Fat Fingered Slip!)

Man... the extended solo on "White Light/White Heat (Version 1)," track 23 of Complete Matrix Tapes, is just terrific.

I absolutely prefer Quine Tapes to Live 69, by a wide margin

This bluesy, cough-syrup slow "Sister Ray" solo (Matrix Tapes, track 30) is also unlike any other VU I remember hearing before!

Need to revisit Quine Tapes after this, it's been a long time

This Sister Ray is astonishingly good

oh it's 36 mins long? this is the stuff, fam

yeah I registered to the whole set recently and it totally ruled

the long slow "Waiting For My Man" is A++ as well

"re-listened" jeez

how is this even a question?

(xp) Those are both on "Live at the Matrix" where they don't sound like shit though? I think?

They sure sound good (thru my headphones) on this Complete Matrix Tapes set(?)