no way. its so good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUleDpA3DLE
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:03 (six years ago) link
I'll forever love YO/POB, Fly, and AIU though.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:05 (six years ago) link
Feeling the Space definitely deserves a listen. the band is pretty nice and has a 70's soul vibe to it. "Growing Pain" w that beat and that flute and some lovely early 70s space r&b. "Woman of Salem" is devastating, vividly re-telling the story of the morning of a witch hanging, like a folk thing Johnny Cash or Nick Cave would do. "Run Run Run" i like a lot because it is a nice breezy pop song with a great catchy chorus about "Run run run run run for your life" almost like on a Pink Floyd satirical tip or something. her style for this album is more political & concrete, less abstract/conceptual. a lot of the album is about the women's struggle, she is confronting an ages old thing that weighs heavy on the world. the music is pretty rad.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:11 (six years ago) link
John is only performing on a 2 songs here tho, as the album as a whole is mostly her statement, thus outside the rules of this poll.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:13 (six years ago) link
i dig the vibraphone jazz pop of "Yellow girl (Stand by for life)"
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:16 (six years ago) link
Both songs john plays on from that album were listed as eligible fwiw
Xpip
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 May 2018 21:19 (six years ago) link
yes that list is well put together!
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:24 (six years ago) link
This is nuts, and unheard until recent CD reissues i believe? Genuinely amazing and sounds more like a late 80s proto acid-y thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w40MUrFq3xM
― piscesx, Monday, 14 May 2018 21:35 (six years ago) link
I love it.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:37 (six years ago) link
I like McCartney II and the rest of the stuff that didn't make the album, but it is a touch overrated by people who consider themselves to be too cool to listen to 'Once Upon a Long Ago' or 'My Brave Face' ...
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:44 (six years ago) link
'Dark Room' is another great one from McCartney II ...
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Monday, 14 May 2018 21:49 (six years ago) link
dope lists shakey. i'll dig through tomorrow and hype some fave tracks.
"come and get it" is .... okay. i love the "SON-ny! If.. you..." hook. but it's badly underwritten, with basically a verse and a chorus ad nauseum iirc. that's the real impresario sin - the recording is great and it was a top-tenner in the UK and US both. otherwise i'm not sure he did anything worse there than any other producer of a bubblegum single in that period.
"secret friend" was a b-side on the "temporary secretary" 12" single, and would burble up periodically as a "woah, this is the mccartney track for people who hate mccartney" (much like the album as a whole was always slightly on the cusp of cool cred for weirdos) - i remember blount repping for it circa 2005/2006. naturally it's never done a ton for me but it's a good stoner trip thing. as far as castoffs from the mccartney ii sessions go (it was originally conceived, insanely, as a double ablum) i prefer the shorter, one-idea songs like "mr. h. atom" and "you know i'll get you babe," which i knew from mp3s of bootleg albums. not things i would put on a ballot, though one of the "coming up"s has to place. "waterspout" though is the true lost gem of that period.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Monday, 14 May 2018 23:00 (six years ago) link
woah i guess "waterspout" is actually a few years earlier! i'm seeing it on "london town sessions" lists. weird, it feels so mccartney-ii to me.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Monday, 14 May 2018 23:02 (six years ago) link
McCartney II, which I've lived with 25 years, is mostly crap.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 May 2018 23:04 (six years ago) link
"Waterfalls"? Yeah. It was a UK top ten!
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 May 2018 23:05 (six years ago) link
"waterfalls" is lovely also!
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Monday, 14 May 2018 23:39 (six years ago) link
McCartney II, whichwho I've lived with 25 38 years, is mostly crap.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
fixed
― sleeve, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 00:38 (six years ago) link
Where is the mccartney list?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 01:18 (six years ago) link
I might put Temporary Secretary on number one and fill the rest with Ringo songs.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 01:19 (six years ago) link
ha I was thinking of doing an all-Ringo ballot just to narrow the field but shakey’s lists are great, will definitely be listening to a lot of stuff on there I haven’t heard
― sciatica, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 01:23 (six years ago) link
I dunno moka, where is your mccartney list
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 01:47 (six years ago) link
I wrote this about Turrican's beloved Flowers in the Dirt last year when reissued.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 01:48 (six years ago) link
McCartney II definitely rules. i love the music video for "Coming Up". i love the drums-and-vocoder breakdown in "Goodnight Tonight". "Waterfalls" is a great song even if inspiring another great song wasn't enough (TLC). there is some great Eno-style ambient stuff on the record too. for the first McCartney he also did some ambient/experimental pop stuff, the instrumental "Junk", the singing crystal glasses, the clipped song "Suicide".
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 03:04 (six years ago) link
lol moka these lists probably take a shit ton of effort to put together!
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 03:06 (six years ago) link
also shakey if you can hurry up with the mccartney list, we need it stat
Hahaha I wasn’t pressuring for shakey to post it I was legit looking on mobile and saw the Lennon and Harrison list and thought there was lists for the other two in here but couldn’t find them... thought a link or something was posted upthread and couldn’t find it
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 03:21 (six years ago) link
McCartney is probably the most daunting one to make a list of so I wont take the herculean task to do it.
I find it incredible that with so many rabid fans of this band there isn’t a site with these sort of lists already arranged. You could set up a website and make money off of these lists you’ve made.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 03:26 (six years ago) link
I had no idea shakey was making these himself. Thought it was a copy paste from other site, that’s why I found it confusing why we only had the Lennon songs in here at first.
No pressure shakey, thanks for posting these really appreciate the effort and had no idea these was all you... sorry.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 03:28 (six years ago) link
same here! i guess maybe they're out there, but maybe hidden away in BBS posts from the late 80s, un-googleable
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 04:10 (six years ago) link
*cough* Discogs appearance/performance credits
― sleeve, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 04:42 (six years ago) link
where the nerds truly shine
― sleeve, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 04:43 (six years ago) link
i don't know, i've found them kind of hit and miss, unless i'm just not looking in the right place. is there a better discogs appearance/performance credit for harrison than this one?
https://www.discogs.com/artist/243955-George-Harrison?sort=year%2Casc&limit=500&filter_anv=0&type=Appearances&page=1
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 04:49 (six years ago) link
https://www.discogs.com/artist/243955-George-Harrison?filter_anv=0&subtype=Instruments-Performance&type=Credits
maybe? I certainly find it useful for less prolific artists
― sleeve, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 05:07 (six years ago) link
McCartney II's great, you start hassling that you might as well diss Tusk as well (they were both pretty key uncool but cool records for the cool kids of 2005)
― albvivertine, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 05:54 (six years ago) link
AH, now that's funny - I didn't know George's middle name.
John's being Winston, Paul's being Paul. Tempted to say Ringo didn't have one. But George? Oh.. oh...
Really? WellINever.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 07:08 (six years ago) link
I'm in a bit of a quandary about including Macca's classical work, since he doesnt perform on them.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 14:58 (six years ago) link
At the same time, they seem like a bit of a different beast from songs he wrote for elvis costello or mary hopkin or whoever
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 15:00 (six years ago) link
cannot imagine any of them placing so leaving them off might be a kindness to the one or two posters who might otherwise be tempted into wasting their votes. but i've been wrong about things like that before...
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 15:18 (six years ago) link
The Family Way soundtrack feels very informative to where Macca's creative mind was at in between Revolver & Pepper. I could care less about the 90s stuff.
― Darin, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 15:30 (six years ago) link
It's as essential as Wonderwall Music or Two Virgins IMHO
― Darin, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
i buy that line. i'm probably biased just from never being curious enough to check that stuff out!
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 15:37 (six years ago) link
McCartney's involvement in the project was minimal, according to biographer Howard Sounes, who quotes Martin's recollection that he had to "pester Paul for the briefest scrap of a tune" with which to start writing the score. After McCartney had provided "a sweet little fragment of a waltz tune", Martin continued, "I was able to complete the score."[6] But this appears to refer specifically to Martin's last-minute decision that the score needed "a central love theme, something wistful" for which McCartney composed the extra theme "Love In the Open Air" after the bulk of the score had been written. Martin said he had to "go round to his house and literally stand there until he composed something."
Credited as arranged and conducted by Martin.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 15:43 (six years ago) link
So yeah idk I'm inclined to leave this stuff out
i don't envision getting around to coming up with 100 songs, or investigating the hours and hours of paul and ringo i've never heard, in time to vote on all this, but goddamn the 80-second title track to venus and mars is beautiful and should be talked about more often. "rock show," which it's attached to, is great too, obviously, but "venus and mars" is next level and it's way up there in my paul pantheon. (the longer, bowie-esque reprise on side two not quite as good.)
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 16:04 (six years ago) link
Ok, so I made these a while back - imaginary LPs from Abbey Road up to 1981 (I planned to continue up to the present day but didn't for whatever reason) - I am positive that nobody will 100% agree with my choices, but thought I might as well share / get some feedback on them.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 16:22 (six years ago) link
xpost:
I agree, but I prefer the reprise of 'Venus and Mars' because of the outro with all the backing vocals and because, like 'Loup', it's an example of Paul getting cosmic.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 17:12 (six years ago) link
here's one I'd never heard of before
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGear
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 17:31 (six years ago) link
I read about it in the late '80s.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 17:32 (six years ago) link
I saw a copy in the bins a while back, have always been sorta curious but also figured if it was any good some Beatles obsessives would have let this be known to me by now.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 17:36 (six years ago) link
PAUL MCCARTNEY
Solo and with Wings
McCartneyThe Lovely Linda That Would Be Something Valentine Day Every Night Hot As Sun Glasses Junk Man We Was Lonely Oo You Momma Miss America Teddy Boy Singalong Junk Maybe I'm Amazed Kreen - Akrore
RamToo Many People 3 Legs Ram On Dear Boy Uncle Albert / Admiral Halsey Smile Away Heart Of The Country Monkberry Moon Delight Eat At Home Long Haired Lady Ram On The Back Seat Of My Car
Wild LifeMumboBip BopLove Is Strange Wild LifeSome People Never KnowI Am Your SingerTomorrowDear Friend
Red Rose SpeedwayBig Barn Bed My Love Get On The Right Thing One More Kiss Little Lamb Dragonfly Single Pigeon When The Night Loup (1st Indian On The Moon) Medley (Hold Me Tight, Lazy Dynamite, Hands Of Love, Power Cut)
Band on the RunBand On The Run Jet Bluebird Mrs. Vandebilt Let Me Roll It Mamunia No Words Picasso's Last Words (Drink To Me) Nineteen Hundred And Eighty Five
Venus and MarsVenus And Mars Rock Show Love In Song You Gave Me The Answer Magneto And Titanium Man Letting Go Venus And Mars – Reprise Spirits Of Ancient Egypt Medicine Jar Call Me Back Again Listen To What The Man Said Treat Her Gently – Lonely Old People Crossroads Theme
Wings at the Speed of SoundLet 'Em In The Note You Never Wrote She's My Baby Beware My Love Wino Junko Silly Love Songs Cook Of The House Time To Hide Must Do Something About It San Ferry Anne Warm And Beautiful
London TownLondon TownCafe On The Left BankI'm CarryingBackwards TravellerCuff LinkChildren ChildrenGirlfriendI've Had EnoughWith A Little LuckFamous GroupiesDeliver Your ChildrenName And AddressDon't Let It Bring You DownMorse Moose And The Grey Goose
Back to the EggReception Getting Closer We're Open Tonight Spin It On Again And Again And Again Old Siam, Sir Arrow Through Me Rockestra Theme To You After The Ball / Million Miles Winter Rose / Love Awake The Broadcast So Glad To See You Here Baby's Request
McCartney IIComing UpTemporary SecretaryOn The WayWaterfallsNobody KnowsFront ParlourSummer's Day SongFrozen JapBogey MusicDarkroomOne Of These Days
Tug of WarTug Of WarTake It AwaySomebody Who CaresWhat's That You're Doing?Here TodayBallroom DancingThe Pound Is SinkingWanderlustGet ItBe What You See (Link)Dress Me Up As A RobberEbony And Ivory
Pipes of PeacePipes Of PeaceSay Say SayThe Other MeKeep Under CoverSo BadThe ManSweetest Little ShowAverage PersonHey HeyTug Of PeaceThrough Our Love
Give My Regards to Broad StreetNo More Lonely Nights (Ballad)Good Day SunshineCorridor MusicYesterdayHere, There And EverywhereWanderlustBallroom DancingSilly Love SongsSilly Love Songs (Reprise)Not Such A Bad BoyNo ValuesNo More Lonely Nights (Ballad Reprise)For No-OneEleanor RigbyEleanor's DreamLong And Winding RoadNo More Lonely Nights (Playout Version)
Press to PlayStrangleholdGood Times Coming / Feel The SunTalk More TalkFootprintsOnly Love RemainsPressPretty Little HeadMove Over BuskerAngryHowever Absurd
Flowers in the DirtMy Brave FaceRough RideYou Want Her TooDistractionsWe Got MarriedPut It ThereFigure Of EightThis OneDon't Be Careless LoveThat Day Is DoneHow Many PeopleMotor Of LoveOu Est Le Soleil
Off the GroundOff The GroundLooking For ChangesHope Of DeliveranceMistress And MaidI Owe It All To YouBiker Like An IconPeace In The NeighbourhoodGolden Earth GirlThe Lovers That Never WereGet Out Of My WayWinedark Open SeaC'mon People
Flaming PieThe Song We Were SingingThe World TonightIf You WannaSomedaysYoung BoyCalico SkiesFlaming PieHeaven On A SundayUsed To Be BadSouvenirLittle WillowReally Love YouBeautiful NightGreat Day
Run Devil RunBlue Jean BopShe Said YeahAll Shook UpRun Devil RunNo Other BabyLonesome TownTry Not To CryMovie MaggBrown Eyed Handsome ManWhat It IsCoquetteI Got StungHoney HushShake A HandParty
Driving RainLonely RoadFrom A Lover To A FriendShe's Given Up TalkingDriving RainI DoTiny BubbleMagicYour WaySpinning On An AxisAbout YouHeatherBack In The Sunshine AgainYour Loving FlameRiding Into JaipurRinse The Raindrops
Chaos and Creation in the BackyardFine LineHow Kind Of YouJenny WrenAt The MercyFriends To GoEnglish TeaToo Much RainA Certain SoftnessRiding To Vanity FairFollow MePromise To You GirlThis Never Happened BeforeAnywayI've Only Got Two Hands
Memory Almost FullDance TonightEver Present PastSee Your SunshineOnly Mama KnowsYou Tell MeMr BellamyGratitudeVintage ClothesThat Was MeFeet In The CloudsHouse Of WaxThe End Of The EndNod Your Head
Kisses on the BottomI'm Gonna Sit Right Down And Write Myself A LetterHome (When Shadows Fall)It's Only A Paper MoonMore I Cannot Wish YouThe Glory Of LoveWe Three (My Echo, My Shadow And Me)Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate The PositiveMy ValentineAlwaysMy Very Good Friend The MilkmanBye Bye BlackbirdGet Yourself Another FoolThe Inch WormOnly Our Hearts
NewSave UsAlligatorOn My Way To WorkQueenie EyeEarly DaysNewAppreciateEverybody Out ThereHosannaI Can BetLooking At HerRoadScared
Non-album SinglesAnother DayOh Woman Oh WhyGive Ireland Back to the IrishMary Had a Little LambLittle Woman LoveHi, Hi, HiC MoonLive and Let DieI Lie AroundJunior's FarmSally GWalking in the Park With EloiseBridge Over the River SuiteSeaside WomanB Side to SeasideMull of KintyreGirls' SchoolGoodnight TonightDaytime Nighttime SufferingWonderful ChristmastimeRudolph the Red-Nosed ReggaeWe All Stand TogetherSpies Like UsMy CarnivalFerry Cross the MerseyAbide With MeVo!ceTropic Island Hum(I Want to) Come HomeSimple As ThatIt's Now or NeverHiroshima Sky is Always BlueA Room with a ViewNovaMaybe BabyI'm Partial to Your AbracadabraVanilla SkyI Want to Walk You HomeMeat Free MondayIt's So EasyIn the Blink of an Eye
With Other Artists
Mike McGear - McGear (producer, backing vocals, bass, guitar, keyboards)Sea BreezesWhat Do We Really Know?NortonLeave ItHave You Got Problems?The CasketRainbow LadySimply Love YouGivin' Grease a RideThe Man Who Found God on the MoonDnce the DoSweet Baby
Percy "Thrills" Thrillington - Thrillington (producer)Too Many People 3 Legs Ram On Dear Boy Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey Smile Away Heart Of The Country Monkberry Moon Delight Eat At Home Long Haired Lady Back Seat Of My Car
Denny Laine - Holly Days (producer, all instruments)HeartbeatMoondreamsRave OnI'm Gonna Love You TooFool's ParadiseLonesome Tears (Instrumental)It's So Easy"/"Listen to Me" Look at MeTake Your TimeI'm Looking for Someone to Love (Instrumental)
Linda McCartney - Wide Prairie (producer, multiple instruments)Wide PrarieNew OrleansThe White Coated ManLove's Full GloryI Got UpThe Light Comes from WithinMister SandmanSeaside WomanOriental NightfishEndless DaysPosion IvyCowB-Sie to SeasideSugartimeCook of the HouseAppaloosa
The Fireman - Strawberry Oceans Ships ForestTranspiritual StompTrans Lunar RisingTranscrystalinePure TranceArizona LightCeltic StompStrawberries Oceans Ships Forest4 4 4Sunrise Mix
The Fireman - RushesWatercolour GuitarsPalo VerdeAuravedaFluidAppletree Cinnabar AmberBison7 a.m.Watercolour Rush
Liverpool Sound CollagePlastic BeetlePeter Blake 2000Real Gone Dub Made in Manifest in the Vortex of the Eternal NowMade UpFree Now
Paul McCartney and Freelance Hellraiser - Twin FreaksReally Love YouLong Haired Lady (Reprise)Rinse the RaindropsDarkroomLive and Let DieTemporary SecretaryWhat's That You're DoingOh Woman, Oh WhyMumboLalulaComing UpMaybe I'm Amazed
The Fireman - Electric ArgumentsNothing Too Much Just Out of SightTwo MagpiesSing the ChangesTravelling LightHighwayLight from Your LighthouseSun Is ShiningDance 'Til We're HighLifelong PassionIs This Love?Lovers in a DreamUniversal Here, Everlasting No
individual tracksVegetables - the Beach Boys (celery)Sing This All Together - The Rolling Stones (backing vocals, percussion)We Love You - The Rolling Stones (backing vocals, percussion)I'm the Urban Spaceman - Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band (producer)Those Were the Days - Mary Hopkin (producer)Carolina in My Mind - James Taylor (bass)Rosetta - the Fourmost (piano)Come and Get It - Badfinger (producer)Rock of All Ages - Badfinger (producer, piano)Carry On Til Tomorrow - Badfinger (producer)Sour Milk Sea - Jackie Lomax (bass)New Day - Jackie Lomax (bass)My Dark Hour - Steve Miller Band (bass, drums, backing vocals)Que Sera, Sera - Mary Hopkin (producer)Night Owl - Carly Simon (backing vovals)Six O'Clock - Ringo Starr (piano, synth, backing vocal)You're Sixteen - Ringo Starr (kazoo)Rock 'n' Roll Music Is Now - James Taylor (backing vocals)Mine for Me - Rod Stewart (backing vocals)Change - Adam Faith (synthesizer)Goodbye - Adam Faith (synthesizer)Never Say Goodbye - Adam Faith (synthesizer)Star Song - Adam Faith (backing vocals)Liverpool Lou - The Scaffold (producer)Ten Years After on Strawberry Jam - the Scaffold (producer, bass, keyboards)Pure Gold - Ringo Starr (backing vocals)One of Those Days in England - Roy Harper (backing vocals)Send Me the Heart - Denny Laine (bass, keyboards, guitar, percussion, vocals)Weep for Love - Denny Laine (bass, keyboards, guitar, percussion, vocals)Maisie - Laurence Juber (bass)Veronica - Elvis Costello (bass)...This Town... - Elvis Costello (bass)Yvonne's the One - 10cc (guitar)Code of Silence - 10cc (strings, electric piano, frogs, crickets, percussion)The Ballad of Skeletons - Allen Ginsberg (guitar, drums, organ, maracas)La De Da - Ringo Starr (bass, backing vocals)I Was Walking - Ringo Starr (bass, backing vocals)What in the World - Ringo Starr (bass, backing vocals)Receptacle for the Respectable - Super Furry Animals (celery)Hurt Myself - Rusty Anderson (bass, backing vocals, guitar)A Time to Love - Stevie Wonder (guitar)Boots and Sand - Yusuf Islam (backing vocals)Peace Dream - Ringo Starr (bass)Walk With You - Ringo Starr (backing vocals)We're on the Road Again - Ringo Starr (backing vocals)Show Me the Way - Ringo Starr (bass)Sunday Rain - Foo Fighters (drums)Songbird in a Cage - Charlotte Gainsbourg (guitar, piano, drums)The Girl is Mine - Michael Jackson (vocals)New Moon Over Jamaica - Johnny Cash (vocals)A Friend Like You - Brian Wilson (vocals)The Very Thought of You - Tony Bennet (vocals)Bring It On Home to Me - George Benson and Al Jarreau (vocals)Heal the Pain - George Michael (vocals)My Soul - Nitin Sawhney (vocals)I'm In Love Again - Klaus Voorman (piano, vocals)All of Me - Eric Clapton (vocals, bass)Out of Sight - the Bloody Beetroots (?)Only One - Kanye West (vocals, piano)FourFiveSeconds - Kanye West and Rihanna (vocals, instruments)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 17:40 (six years ago) link