The Smiths: Classic or Dud?

yeah that is a ridiculous thing to argue

i assume it's only a matter of time till ppl start saying "the beatles would have been just fine without john lennon"

lol yeah Smiths would have been huge without Morrissey just like Chapterhouse

perfectly satisfactory career

You guys have totally twisted my position, but ok.

they would have fared perfectly fine in that mid-80s London guitar pop climate.

why would they have even moved to London without Morrissey's lyrics, drive, and personality

Dud

Morrissey and Marr clearly needed each other and complimented each other perfectly. And they would be forgotten by now without Morrissey.

The musicians in most canonical rock bands are probably accomplished enough that they could have had "perfectly satisfactory careers" with different lead singers.

i assume it's only a matter of time till ppl start saying "the beatles would have been just fine without john lennon"

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:07 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There have been TV dramas framed around answering this question already.

The other three could've carried on as the Smiths with a different singer. Marr is the greater of the two. Would've been fine.

Morrissey’s most important contribution as an individual was his lyrics, not his voice. Together he and Marr were better than apart. Anything else is laughable revisionism.

Marr has worked with other singers/writers and the results are as good as the Smiths. I don't think that's true of Morrissey.

they would have fared perfectly fine in that mid-80s London guitar pop climate

not sure who we're talking about here (the primitives? the darling buds?) but you could argue that it was the success of the smiths in the first place that enabled those bands to sign to majors and enjoy a level of success

Also what does London have to do with it?

What's London but a secondhand emotion?

Marr has worked with other singers/writers and the results are as good as the Smiths. I don't think that's true of Morrissey.

― everything, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 08:09 (fifty-two minutes ago)

this is bullshit too imo. Moz's stuff with Vini Reilly on Viva Hate is as good as the Smiths

The other three could've carried on as the Smiths with a different singer. Marr is the greater of the two. Would've been fine.

Second sentence does not necessarily follow from the first.

X-Ray Spex lost their front-person and they got a new one and carried on. With a new name, obv. Doesn't mean Jak Airport was greater than Poly.

I don't think that's true of Morrissey.

A lot of Morrissey solo is patchy but Vauxhall & I is up there with my favourite Smiths stuff.

Perhaps David Quantick could have been the lead singer

John the Postman, surely.

https://img.discogs.com/ju7i1NrmtQ7XIwXj0EbFAPCQ7Vo=/fit-in/600x360/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/A-1274814-1468321622-2023.jpeg.jpg

Well, Marr made all the music and the 3 piece band could have made as good instrumentals for another singer but a lot of the Smiths fans (not all, of course) worshipped Moz and he was the star of the band (also the importance of his stage presence) so they definitely wouldn't have been as popular without him (not talking about his lyrical/melodic/structural input in the songwriting, as mentionned already).

Check out Bryan Ferry's "The Right Stuff"

There's an old bootleg live encore of Barbarism Begins at Home with Pete Burns, where M & PB give up (and I presume leave the stage) halfway through and the other three proceed to reveal themselves as a superior jazz funk band, which I guess they felt they couldn't do with Moz around. They could've been a great second division Factory band.

if Marr wanted to to do jackshit that anyone remembers after the Smiths besides Getting Away With It and whatever Modest Mouse minor hit he played on he sure has had the opportunities

Morrissey has a ton of iconic solo songs

i mean I'm all for reevaluating his career, the recent mark s post someone linked was great and thought provoking about how the press and audience willfully ignored his racism

but to compare their post Smiths careers is so silly

I am a huuuuuuge fan of Marr the session man, love his playing so much, but yeah, no way, Morrissey has a ton of iconic solo songs and Marr remained best at being one of the best support players (for The The, Electronic, Pet Shop Boys, Talking Heads, Bryan Ferry, you name it).

Morrissey's vocal melodies run all over Marr's songs in really strange and unique ways

Did someone post that "Sing the Fifth" video here? That was illuminating.

Electronic's first album is better than the sum total of Morrissey's solo career, don't @ me

sing the third! xp

ha, yeah, the third?

Sorry, bad punctuation, on phone.

I agree the first Electronic album is better than any Morrissey album, and you can make a case that is better than the sum total of his career, but given it's the product of Johnny Marr of The Smiths, the singer and guitarist from one of the few other British bands that really gave the Smiths a run for their money, and the Pet Shop Boys thrown in as guest ringers, it better be!

Electronic's first album is better than the sum total of Morrissey's solo career, don't @ me

― Neil S,

I don't disagree!

fuck me, I'd rate a Chas + Dave b-side kazoo version of Flight of the Valkries as better than the sum total of Morrissey's solo career + The Smiths!

This is blown way out of proportion!

Is it me or is Morrissey's odious late output/persona seriously distorting some people's judgement? IMO, some of his solo stuff is on par with the Smiths at their best.

That been said, The Smiths would've still been pretty good without Morrissey, sure. I imagine with a good singer they would've been the Oasis of the 80s.

They would probably have been about as successful as the Chameleons

Or the Woodentops

Is it me or is Morrissey's odious late output/persona seriously distorting some people's judgement?

Otfm. Seriously angry I’m actually being forced to defend him!

Also, Electronic were overwhelmingly full given the members.

electronic were great but only on the first album.

Electronic's first album is better than the sum total of Morrissey's solo career, don't @ me

― Neil S, Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:12 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

@ u bro

xxp DULL, jfc @myself

Morrissey's 'iconic' solo songs after the 80s, please do list them for me here.

Horst Wessel Song
Tomorrow Belongs to Me
Rule Brittania
There'll Always Be an England

We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful
First of the Gang to Die
November Spawned A Monster
The More You Ignore Me the Closer I Get

that's all I got

also Seriously angry I’m actually being forced to defend him! otm

Suedehead

lol fuck that came out in 1988 nvm

Morrissey's 'iconic' solo songs after the 80s, please do list them for me here.

I mentioned Vauxhall & I already - I skip fewer tracks on that than The Smiths, so.

"Now My Heart Is Full" is my favourite Morrissey song.

It’s a beaut :)

Good chance that's my most-played Morrissey song. As far as later-era stuff goes, I love "Life is a Pigsty."

Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself, Speedway and Spring Heel Jim are great, plus loads of good stuff on Your Arsenal.

i used to like more morrissey songs

but i guess i've just narrowed it down to vauxhall and i, which is a pretty standard choice for a best morrissey album

, and the Pet Shop Boys thrown in as guest ringers, it better be

the PSB are only on one track on Electronic

also Mind Bomb & Dusk are better than all of Morrissey's solo career. Dusk is a better-recorded band than anything else in Marr's career.