most of these seem at least informed by rnb imo:
19. Beyoncé, "Formation" (2016)15. Nicki Minaj, "Super Bass" (2010)12. Solange, "Cranes In The Sky" (2016)11. Janelle Monáe (ft. Big Boi), "Tightrope" (2010)8. Alicia Keys, "Fallin'" (2001)7. Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, "100 Days, 100 Nights" (2007)6. Lorde, "Royals" (2013)4. Amy Winehouse, "Back To Black" (2006)3. Beyoncé, "Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)" (2008)1. M.I.A., "Paper Planes" (2007)
anyway, surely some genres/artists are represented as always, just find it... I dunno what word to use... remarkable maybe, that a liberal/progressive reaction to National Radio's attempt at challenging a male dominated canon would be calling it neo liberalist bullshit
I'm not going to spend time hatereading reddit comments about the list, but I'm sure a lot of people find the very concept of a list with no men offensive
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:21 (five years ago) link
underrepresented*
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:22 (five years ago) link
you show those reddit men you just imagined, niels
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:30 (five years ago) link
you don't think they exist?
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:42 (five years ago) link
What type of brain disease would I need where I get mad at hypothetical Reddit posts that I invent in my head
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:53 (five years ago) link
haha that's a bit rich but I gather you think I'm insane for imagining how a list like this would be received in certain forums?
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:55 (five years ago) link
...yes?
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:56 (five years ago) link
for what it's worth this is the reddit thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/LetsTalkMusic/comments/6pvq4m/lets_talk_nprs_150_greatest_albums_made_by_women/
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:06 (five years ago) link
Lmfaoooooooooooooooo
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:06 (five years ago) link
(from last year's list; this year's list doesn't seem to have as much commentary but https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/comments/93253b/npr_list_the_200_greatest_songs_by_21st_century/)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:07 (five years ago) link
From /r/popheads
https://www.reddit.com/r/popheads/comments/934a2i/npr_the_200_greatest_songs_by_21st_century_women/
― how's life, Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:09 (five years ago) link
yeah I was just about to link that but the too reddit didn't read is that the list was received basically how it was received here; T_D types generally don't follow music to this degree
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:10 (five years ago) link
It's an interesting list, but the ranking order is all over the place. When you have stuff like Britney Spears' ...Baby One More Time (which aside from the singles is pretty dire, and one of her worst albums honestly) higher than Young, Gifted and Black by Aretha Franklin, your list can't be all that great.Still, it's refreshing because most other best of albums lists are indeed very male dominated, and even rock-oriented. Whereas there seems to be a lot of diversity in this list.
Still, it's refreshing because most other best of albums lists are indeed very male dominated, and even rock-oriented. Whereas there seems to be a lot of diversity in this list.
Wow, the top voted Reddit comment. These absolute savages. These fucking monsters.
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:12 (five years ago) link
(there's also a /mu/ thread apparently but I'm not clicking it at work)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:15 (five years ago) link
/mu/ is not talking about this right now
But you can read these threads:
Where's theneedledrop?: Why are Fantano's scores still not appearing in the reception section of album articles in Wikipedia?
The only reason people think Birds in the Trap was bad is because of Fantano's opinion. If he gave it a good score everyone on reddit and /mu/ would think it was good. Fuck Anthony Fantano. And fuck mindless drones. Astroworld is going to be AOTY.
He everyone, VIEWSTHONY WHORETANO here, the internet's most desperate music nerd. And it's time for a review of another imexplicably positive review of a terrible SoundCloud rap album because that's what my underaged fanbase wants to hear.
Hi my name is Frank Zappa and my musuic is garbage
Why are there so many pseuds and contrarians on this board? Do they think they're above others for having an inferior taste in music? Help me out here, /mu/.
Post based and redpilled RYM reviews
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:28 (five years ago) link
they were as of two days ago https://i.imgur.com/seSvPqF.png
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:32 (five years ago) link
(google search link because, again, I'm not clicking this at work, so for all I know it could be fawningly positive)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:33 (five years ago) link
it's not
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:36 (five years ago) link
but this is a good time as ever to guess which ILXors have soy face
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:41 (five years ago) link
happy to hear the reddit thread is not badstill think it's v weird to describe this list as neo liberal
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:13 (five years ago) link
also d40 what's the joke pls
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:14 (five years ago) link
xpost it is “weird” and makes zero sense but I would ignore it
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:21 (five years ago) link
discussion piece between 2 of the writer contributors to the list(intro to it below)
As the list took shape, it became impossible not to notice that the songs in this canon share a common backbone. Many of the songs, and more namely the song's creators, owe their catchy, joyous, triumphant, sexy, strong, aching, resilient ethos to black, Latin and Afro Caribbean musical roots. From streaming to radio, the influence of Latin, Caribbean and R&B music is apparent across all modern genres in the new millennium.
To untangle this common thread, NPR Music's Stefanie Fernández and Sidney Madden charted the work of women of color on this list and examined the ways agency and identity have become central in breaking down pop music's barriers.
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/01/634184379/reclaiming-the-rhyme-how-black-women-and-latinas-have-reshaped-pop-music
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:02 (five years ago) link
They followed in the footsteps of those who could not choose: Selena Quintanilla, Gloria Estefan, Jenni Rivera, Celia Cruz, and so many others.
FTR, I interviewed Jenni Rivera once and she said she would never want to record in English. That if she ever did, it would be an album of old doo-wop songs and love ballads like you'd hear on Art Laboe's radio show, but she had zero interest in crossing over to a pop audience.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:27 (five years ago) link
Also, both these women are bad, clumsy writers who really could have used an editor to teach them how not to sound like marketing executives.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:30 (five years ago) link
and with that
https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif?2
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:50 (five years ago) link
probably a very similar one to the sort that would make you get mad at hypothetical ILX posters or movie viewers or readers or music listeners or bacon eaters that you invent in your head
― 16, 35, DCP, Go! (sic), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:58 (five years ago) link
x-post to Unperson--Fernandez does not sound like a "marketing executive" here :
The mainstreaming and whitewashing of reggaeton, a genre born from working class black Panamanians (like La Atrevida) in the late 1980s and pioneered in the 1990s by listmaker Ivy Queen (No. 60 with "Quiero Bailar"), by white or light-skinned Latin pop artists has facilitated the pop transformation of Afro-Caribbean genres to the point where they are barely recognizable. In the early 2000s, genres shaped and fundamentally conceived from poverty and racism like reggaeton and soca were still dismissed as classless and vulgar; the vestiges of this thinking can still be seen in the perceived vulgarity of Latin trap artists like Bad Bunny and the new wave of reguetoneras like Karol G, Natti Natasha and Anitta who seem to have been left behind by the success of their peers more palatable to the American market.
She also acknowledges that "There are no reggae or soca songs on the list..."
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:16 (five years ago) link
Fine, but it's still bad and clumsy writing, based on phony premises, starting (in the excerpt you quoted) with the fact that Ivy Queen is herself light-skinned. We could also talk about the fact that Gloria Estefan had multiple Top 40 English-language hits, and she and her husband Emilio managed Shakira's move into pop. These writers are painting a portrait of victimization and marginalization that just doesn't match the facts. I mean, when you're gonna call Gloria fucking Estefan someone who couldn't choose her own career moves, you really need to stop and rethink. And you know this stuff, probably even better than I do.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:40 (five years ago) link
― niels, Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:14 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the idea that that selection somehow adequately represents or even comprehends R&B's musical contributions this decade is laughable
also you missed Jazmine Sullivan, a rare counterexample to what i'm actually talking about
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:58 (five years ago) link
I didn't say that selection "adequately represents" 21st century R&B
you wrote that "the list unquestionably, IMO, and drastically underrates R&B" and I wanted to make the point that the top 20 was full of R&B-informed songs (I didn't "miss" Sullivan, she's at #137 and I was quoting the top 20)
but I'm no expert on contemporary R&B would love to see your list of 20 representative tracks
― niels, Friday, 3 August 2018 06:35 (five years ago) link
Ok, the idea that it’s noteworthy a lot of music would be “r&b-informed” is basically useless—pop music as a whole is r&b infomed
But this canon clearly pushes against the r&b canon, or treats it w oblivious disdain & there’s no real analysis of what’s lost or missing
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 08:59 (five years ago) link
that was indeed carefully phrased, I'd say Sharon Jones and Amy Winehouse is straight up (revivalist) rhythm and blues, stuff like Solange, Beyoncé and Alicia Keys comfortably contemporary R&B
list has Ciara, King, Jhene Aiko, Tweet, Jill Scott, Kali Uchis, India Arie, Blu Cantrell, Sza but maybe you feel it's missing Cassie, Dawn Richard, Kehlani, Kelela, Tinashe?
Anyway I'm really not looking for an argument here, I just thought the criticism seemed perhaps a bit out of proportion with the offensiveness of the list. I think it'd be great if you would share your idea for a 21st century female rnb canon, maybe there isn't really one?
― niels, Friday, 3 August 2018 11:25 (five years ago) link
One last time on my pet peeve--
Sorry Faye-Ann Lyons, you don't rate
plus no afropop/afrobeats (programmed beat African music) artists-- Sorry Yemi Alade, you don't rate.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 3 August 2018 12:41 (five years ago) link
― niels, Friday, August 3, 2018 6:25 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i have to provide my own canon to argue this ignores large portions of the actual R&B canon?
how about destiny's child, brandy, missy, amerie, keyshia cole, mariah carey, mary j blige, erykah badu, aaliyah, keri hilson, jennifer hudson, janet, fantasia, teedra moses, ashanti ... im sure im missing people
the interpretation of "R&B" as portrayed by the list feels limited by critical acclaim & a lack of investment in / immersion in R&B discourse imo...saying "but kali uchis" is a strike against yr point. even your examples of who should have made it hews very close to crit-friendly singing fare (surprised you didn't say FKA twigs?) ignoring the post-church music soul/R&B wing in favor of the kind of stuff that appeals to critics & brits lol
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 21:47 (five years ago) link
im not counting their 'premiered in the 00s' excused since they break it arbitrarily & because the genre is literally driven by women in their 30s/40s consumer wise so it seems absurd
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 21:48 (five years ago) link
K Michelle too, surely? Or are you only talking 00’s here?
― breastcrawl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:42 (five years ago) link
Not looking at the list I know it’s missing Chavela Vargas and therefore not worth my time.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:50 (five years ago) link
Kudos for Selena in the top 20 though if that’s the list that was copy pasted above.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:51 (five years ago) link
Actually that list is pretty decent.
Still no Chavela Vargas makes me sad. I suspect it’s also missing many afro+latin singers but that could be a separate list.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:54 (five years ago) link
1000% k Michelle
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:02 (five years ago) link
Sevyn streeter
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:03 (five years ago) link
“Motivation” by kelly Rowland >>>>
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:12 (five years ago) link
Hell yeah
― breastcrawl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:20 (five years ago) link
amerie and fka both on the listyou don't have to argue anything, I accept that this list is missing a lot of rnb I just want to know what it is because I like the genremotivation is definitely missing!
― niels, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:22 (five years ago) link
I missed Amerie (I don’t consider Fka r&b)
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:35 (five years ago) link
reggaeton is easily more popular than any other form of latin music in america right now
― dyl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:04 (five years ago) link
it's great to see I'm With Her finally getting the credit they deserve.
― billstevejim, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:36 (five years ago) link