pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Instead of substituting genuinely unexpected, lesser sung LPs for bloated hipster heavyweights, they just tell you it's alright to like the stuff you already knew about. It's an injunction to go from the familiar to the familiar – truly inspiring.

as usual the most interesting part of the list is the higher numbers and those are what make the list worthwhile

You guys should be shot into the sun for your misuse of “woke”

Anita Baker way, way too low

lots of stuff to explore in the 200-100s

These lists aren't made for the geeks. I learned a lot from the original list sixteen years ago, when I was a teen, and if this can help young people today then I also think it's pretty significant that they are getting a canon where Janet Jackson and Sade are in the top ten.

On the 2002 list there is one solo woman (Kate Bush at 92) and one women-only band (ESG at 84). It's not as if women are banned (Sonic Youth and Talking Heads are at 1 and 2) but the first clearly female-fronted band is Young Marble Giants at 63 (unless I'm missing something). The new list is not more 'woke', the old list was hopelessly slanted.

extremely dull & canonical list that nobody needed, obv

I'm sure this list is much more rounded than the original one, but the choices are still dullsville

Even within single artists, they've gone for the safe choice p much every time

Anyway, who cares really - we've always known that the fucking cunts treat us like pricks

It's true, you know. There were only two good jazz albums released in the entire 1980s, and they were by Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman.

I like that a few artists who have been ignored by these polls in the past are getting their deserved due/placings, like Janet, Sade and Kate Bush. I do wish that there was a bit more honesty in confronting stuff that hasn't aged particularly well, or held onto its influence since the last poll. Stuff like NWA, Public Enemy, Eric B & Rakim, Beastie Boys, BDP, Run DMC...I appreciate the influence those albums had in their day, but they haven't been honestly that important in how rap has developed since they last did this list in 2002. But I get that influence isn't everything; the main thing for me is that they also don't sound very good in 2018. They sound primitive to me in the way that listening to Jerry Lee Lewis or Little Richard does compared to most 'rock' music created since.

I appreciate the influence those albums had in their day, but they haven't been honestly that important in how rap has developed since they last did this list in 2002.

What are the '80s albums that have influenced how rap has developed since 2002?

Even within single artists, they've gone for the safe choice p much every time

It's a consensus list. Consensus tends to form around an artist's most popular albums. How do people still have a problem grasping this?

lol as usual most of the records i voted for/wrote about landed in the bottom 100

hotter than july is way too low imo

Are you able to share your ballot, Brad?

xpost 1) plenty of people like myself still love those records and I actually think they should great today

having influence on today is a terrible metric imo

also you could argue run dmc's sucker MCs for example has a great effect on all rap that came after up, it's mechanical minimalism made rap it's own music not trying to recreate park jams with disco pro bands....

whether you still think they sound good is just an opinion that may not be shared by ppl at pitchfork

They sound primitive to me in the way that listening to Jerry Lee Lewis or Little Richard does compared to most 'rock' music created since.

I don't disagree with anything here except the idea that primitive is bad. Run-DMC sounds great in 2018 for the same reason a lot of 50's rock does - the simplicity really travels across eras.

They sound primitive to me in the way that listening to Jerry Lee Lewis or Little Richard does compared to most 'rock' music created since.

― triggercut, Monday, September 10, 2018 7:16 AM (forty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, "Evenflow" >>> "Good Golly Miss Molly"

Tbh I'd be a lot more interested in a revised 2000s list, considering opinion she about that decade haven't quite solidified into a canon, and I would venture to say that a bit more of the people writing for the site have living memory of that decade than the 80s (I mean, I was born in 1990, so...)

That said, there's a whole bunch of shit I haven't heard yet, which is really what I value in these lists, and a lot of interesting things in the 101-200 region, but if you want a truly alternative list of best stuff of the 80s (even if I don't agree with it at all), y'all should check out the Fact Mag list from a while back

also calling PE and the Beasties (at least Paul's Boutique) "primitive" is...odd to me

I don't disagree with anything here except the idea that primitive is bad. Run-DMC sounds great in 2018 for the same reason a lot of 50's rock does - the simplicity really travels across eras.

Yeah, that's true. I don't think primitive necessarily means bad, but I do find that I rarely tend to reach for that kind of stuff when flicking through my library looking for something to listen to. It's more an interesting music history lesson to me than music that makes me feel something.

I get that a lot of people still genuinely love a lot of these 80s rap records, but I do feel like they're over-represented at the top of the list compared to how often I see people still talking about them lovingly in recent years. FWIW, I still really love the De La Soul and Slick Rick records and listen to them regularly.

Also, I don't agree with influence being a heavily weighted metric either, but I do think it's one they're trying to use here.

yes, "Evenflow" >>> "Good Golly Miss Molly"

I know you're being facetious, but I literally agree with this.

also calling PE and the Beasties (at least Paul's Boutique) "primitive" is...odd to me

The choppy production/sampling has aged these records badly for my ears. The closest thing to it these days is what Kanye has been doing lately, which also doesn't sound very good.

Also, what do you think are the reasons for the decline in Tom Waits stock? Rain Dogs down to 42, and Swordfishtrombone gone completely.

xpost ok then as far as I can tell you're just wishing a list was more to your personal taste like everyone does but acting it's like some structural or philosophical flaw in how it was constructed

During the ratskellar era we need only Rain Dogs and Bone Machine?

A lot of those "primitive" rap albums sound a lot better to me now than they did in 2002, or in 1995

Also, what do you think are the reasons for the decline in Tom Waits stock? Rain Dogs down to 42, and Swordfishtrombone gone completely.

― triggercut, Monday, September 10, 2018 7:24 AM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A different, younger cast of list contributors

I do wish that there was a bit more honesty in confronting stuff that hasn't aged particularly well

wanna give you a wedgie for this tangent

no 90125 or moving pictures no credibility

Very good point

Quick glance at the top 20, seems to be too much on there (and I presume the top 200 list as a whole) that's there because it's "important" rather than because it's the "best" or even particularly good. That is, in many cases albums much better represented through individual songs and singles lists rather than as albums. I do like seeing Sade up there and even Disintegration, both of which represent a shifting canon, but man, I still don't dig that NWA album (obvious canonical songs aside), and if anything I think its estimation has shifted too much. And sure, Thriller was an epochal event. (It was the first LP I ever bought with my own money, at Sears or Pathmark or something; I want to say it cost $5?). But the idea that it's just one slot below Purple Rain is nuts as anything more than making a weird symbolic point. Both are clearly important albums, but I can't think of the last time I listened to Thriller, let alone all the way through. Probably back when I first bought it.

Also, no 90125 or moving pictures no credibility.

You don't need to listen to Thriller because Thriller is everywhere.

Sade in the top 10 is definitely my favourite thing about this list.

Love seeing Tango in the Night

yeah, nearly every song from Thriller still pops up on radio. It doesn't matter when you stopped playing the album.

Thriller is not everywhere. The hits from Thriller (some of them) are everywhere, and I don't really want to hear the rest. Or even a couple of the hits either. Really, Michael Jackson is everywhere, more so than Prince, but that does not make Thriller a good album.

xpost What radio are you listening to? I hear Billie Jean and Wanna Be and Beat It out and about pretty regularly. Title track only around Halloween or children's school performance. PYT rarely. Girl is mine, etc. never. Human Nature not as much as I'd like; I hear the SWV version more. Couple of the other tracks never.

you're right. what makes it a good album is the music they chose to put on it.

dude, I heard "Baby Be Mine" on adult R&B yesterday and at least two of the seven singles once a week. It's woven into the culture.

Piecing together a playlist for this, still a long way to go.

https://open.spotify.com/user/olken2000/playlist/3FT4IqZf9kXh7APS5rCIZr?si=22NvmFrWSbS2wNkOV6i5QA

i.e. the hits from Thriller are seven of the nine tracks

By that standard there are other albums that should be way up there. Right?

It's clearly an important record, I just don't like it that much as a record. But obviously others do!

It's that high because it placed on just about every submitted list.

weirdest thing about the list to me is The Sensual World placing but not The Dreaming

if you’re listening for just the songs from thriller in toto* you’re missing a lot of the reason it’s still regarded so highly. the pyt sample on kanye’s “good life,” etc

* lol no pun intended

Wait for it...

are there any 9/11 references in this list or no

Love seeing Tango in the Night

― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), 10. september 2018 15:27 (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes! That's one of my favorite reevaluations.

weirdest thing about the list to me is The Sensual World placing but not The Dreaming

― ufo, 10. september 2018 15:38 (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, this is weird.