I'm probably a couple years older than boxedjoy (Eminem wasn't a thing until a year or two after I left high school), but his experiences sound a lot like the ones I had waiting on his fans at my record store job. Whether there is an identifiable connection between Eminem and the alt.right is probably a bit of a stretch--there are certainly other, far more significant factors in play in the rise of the alt.right--but I don't think its at all crazy to notice similarities.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:36 (five years ago) link
I think Eminem's misogyny is borne more out of confusion and fear than genuine hatred, looking at his awkward verse on "Smack That" where he sounds weirdly unhuman and asexual
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:37 (five years ago) link
Eminem, South Park and Jackass were all awesome and hilarious and smart and I'm sorry everyone in your highschool was giving you purple nurples because you were trying to school them to the ineffable beauty of Apichatpong Weerasethakul or whatever
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:39 (five years ago) link
Anyway, I'm glad that we are actually able to have this conversation now: to bring up any criticisms of Eminem in 1999/2000 was to shouted down by free speech warriors (now very much a cause of the alt.right).
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:39 (five years ago) link
I mean I'm not saying "Eminem gave rise to the alt-right" but there's something to be said for the way he normalised lyrics about violence and hate to a generation who are now of an age where they have influence and power
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:40 (five years ago) link
PC Culture is cancer am I right Whiney
― frogbs, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:40 (five years ago) link
holy shit, both of you stop posting
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:40 (five years ago) link
but there's something to be said for the way he normalised lyrics about violence and hate to a generation who are now of an age where they have influence and power
have you considered that he is awesome and hilarious, though
― frogbs, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:42 (five years ago) link
Say Tr*mp folks too, I'm sure.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:43 (five years ago) link
Maybe Tom Green radicalized Eminem
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:45 (five years ago) link
Eminem, South Park and Jackass were all awesome and hilarious and smart
South Park was never smart
of those three, Jackass definitely had its moments. The other two can fuck off and die
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:45 (five years ago) link
Definitely the dirt poor kids who felt energized by Eminem giving a voice to white trash, South Park tapping into rural alienation and Jackass tapping into suburban alienation – definitely the first people I think of when I think of who has "influence and power" in America
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:45 (five years ago) link
The way to properly vote: imagine Eminem singing "We Are All Made of Stars" and Moby rapping "Just Lose It."
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:46 (five years ago) link
I mean I don't disagree about Eminem and South Park being smart and hilarious and awesome in various ways (I never bothered with Jackass because I'm not great with gross-out physical humour) but the joke of Slim Shady being a character who makes us examine our own hypocrisies is not how the punchline went to 13 year olds in 2001
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:46 (five years ago) link
*extremely dying from opiod overdose in missouri voice* i had so much power
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:47 (five years ago) link
the joke of Slim Shady being a character who makes us examine our own hypocrisies
A dangerous game to play, I realize, but was this ever his intent?
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:49 (five years ago) link
no
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:50 (five years ago) link
that element hadn't occured to me tbh Whiney, and I take it on board, although I also imagine that part of that is down the differences between US and UK culture
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:50 (five years ago) link
his "character" was a dodge, just a way to do offensive shit and then provide him w authorial distance from it
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 1, 2018 12:46 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
bad singing is less embarrassing than bad rapping--eminem wins again!
― fred-a van vleet (voodoo chili), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:52 (five years ago) link
South Park was a very smart show in some ways and utterly indefensible in others
― frogbs, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:53 (five years ago) link
the joke of Slim Shady being a character who makes us examine our own hypocrisiesA dangerous game to play, I realize, but was this ever his intent?― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:49 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:49 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
And every single person is a Slim Shady lurkingHe could be working at Burger King, spittin' on your onion ringsOr in the parking lot, circling, screaming, "I don't give a fuck!"With his windows down and his system up
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:53 (five years ago) link
South Park was a very smart show in some ways and utterly indefensible in others― frogbs, Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:53 PM (thirty-three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― frogbs, Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:53 PM (thirty-three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is accurate.
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:54 (five years ago) link
rmde
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:55 (five years ago) link
this is like the "is Trump smart" argument
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:56 (five years ago) link
remembered it from high school and being like, man, I'm an 18 year old idiot and even to me this is so stupid and juvenile
yeah, i was ten, so it hit the sweet spot
― fred-a van vleet (voodoo chili), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:56 (five years ago) link
wait why was Em trying to son Moby in a beef anyway? I think I used to know why
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:56 (five years ago) link
"there's a million of us just like me" is the key Eminem line isn't it
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:58 (five years ago) link
That's been my experience.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 17:58 (five years ago) link
last night's south park was really good
― maura, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:00 (five years ago) link
anyway, team chris kirkpatrick
also you can't just blame eminem for the alt-right. he like nu-metal and the man show and all that other overly masculinized culture was just part of the market asserting itself to its perceived norms after being ~~disrupted~~ by cobain calling out rape culture, women having multiple leading roles on cbs, lilith fair, etc etc
― maura, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link
In my experience every rap-hating asshole who knew that criticizing rap lyrics made them sound like a racist had a TON of criticisms about Eminem around that time
― President Keyes, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link
yep
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:03 (five years ago) link
if we wanted to be fair, we could have included Elton in this poll
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:04 (five years ago) link
eminem : the turn of the millennium :: robin thicke : 2013 ?
― maura, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:04 (five years ago) link
Their could probably be a good treatise written about how the Man Show evolved from a quasi-ironic endeavor under Kimmel and then got a little creepy under Rogan
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:05 (five years ago) link
in what way -- a date stamp?
xpost
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:05 (five years ago) link
it's not a cause/correlation relationship, I just think Eminem was the original troll
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:06 (five years ago) link
Post Malone shouts out Anthony Fantano on his double platinum album, leave our spaghetti boi alone
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:09 (five years ago) link
Possibly true, but as with the cries of "FREE SPEECH!" this feels like another dodge. It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:12 (five years ago) link
https://i.postimg.cc/fy3bbNCx/rs-1024x685-170814125025-1024-eminem-cm-81417.jpghis house is a bit more restrained than I thought but might still be in contention for a mcmansion hell post.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:13 (five years ago) link
I've never seen The Man Show, but I have a hard time believing that Adam Carolla was ever even quasi-ironic on purpose.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:13 (five years ago) link
I don't wanna "treatise" and "Eminem" (or "Moby") in same passage.
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:16 (five years ago) link
It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.
yeah tons of bad faith arguments. The Eminem ILM threads from the time are really something.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:20 (five years ago) link
I mean, 1. Eminem is probably the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed 2. Part of the freedom of hip-hop is the ability for the practitioner to say funny, offensive shit, which goes back to even pre-rap to things like Dolemite and Blowfly and the dozens. 3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting, 5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.
How many of those you agree with or enjoy, I suppose, can determine how down you are with the era of Marshall's first three records. I'm 5 for 5, peace out!
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:30 (five years ago) link
the idea that eminem is somehow uniquely problematic is dumb ... didnt #metoo teach anyone anything abt trying to locate #problemtic behavior in one segment of culture or society
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:32 (five years ago) link
I agree he's not unique at all, part of a continuum
also
the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed
gtfo w that, yr smarter than this
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:35 (five years ago) link
3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting,5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.
I don't think any of these three things is particularly interesting, but then interesting /= good either.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:37 (five years ago) link
i do think eminem gets singled out bc its the ok way to say you think black cultural output is uniquely problematic without seeming like you're blaming black ppl specifically--not to discount the ways in which he's problematic in a way other rappers from that time weren't. Nor does that mean rap cultures isn't problematic in its own ways. But the cultural form he's a part of is obviously built in a certain tradition & tying that cultural production up as 'uniquely' problematic feels suspect to me...
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:40 (five years ago) link