"It's over, nobody listens to techno!" – Eminem Vs. Moby

PC Culture is cancer am I right Whiney

holy shit, both of you stop posting

but there's something to be said for the way he normalised lyrics about violence and hate to a generation who are now of an age where they have influence and power

have you considered that he is awesome and hilarious, though

Say Tr*mp folks too, I'm sure.

Maybe Tom Green radicalized Eminem

Eminem, South Park and Jackass were all awesome and hilarious and smart

South Park was never smart

of those three, Jackass definitely had its moments. The other two can fuck off and die

Definitely the dirt poor kids who felt energized by Eminem giving a voice to white trash, South Park tapping into rural alienation and Jackass tapping into suburban alienation – definitely the first people I think of when I think of who has "influence and power" in America

The way to properly vote: imagine Eminem singing "We Are All Made of Stars" and Moby rapping "Just Lose It."

I mean I don't disagree about Eminem and South Park being smart and hilarious and awesome in various ways (I never bothered with Jackass because I'm not great with gross-out physical humour) but the joke of Slim Shady being a character who makes us examine our own hypocrisies is not how the punchline went to 13 year olds in 2001

*extremely dying from opiod overdose in missouri voice* i had so much power

the joke of Slim Shady being a character who makes us examine our own hypocrisies

A dangerous game to play, I realize, but was this ever his intent?

no

that element hadn't occured to me tbh Whiney, and I take it on board, although I also imagine that part of that is down the differences between US and UK culture

his "character" was a dodge, just a way to do offensive shit and then provide him w authorial distance from it

The way to properly vote: imagine Eminem singing "We Are All Made of Stars" and Moby rapping "Just Lose It."

― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 1, 2018 12:46 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

bad singing is less embarrassing than bad rapping--eminem wins again!

South Park was a very smart show in some ways and utterly indefensible in others

the joke of Slim Shady being a character who makes us examine our own hypocrisies

A dangerous game to play, I realize, but was this ever his intent?

― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:49 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And every single person is a Slim Shady lurking
He could be working at Burger King, spittin' on your onion rings
Or in the parking lot, circling, screaming, "I don't give a fuck!"
With his windows down and his system up

South Park was a very smart show in some ways and utterly indefensible in others

― frogbs, Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:53 PM (thirty-three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is accurate.

rmde

this is like the "is Trump smart" argument

remembered it from high school and being like, man, I'm an 18 year old idiot and even to me this is so stupid and juvenile

yeah, i was ten, so it hit the sweet spot

wait why was Em trying to son Moby in a beef anyway? I think I used to know why

"there's a million of us just like me" is the key Eminem line isn't it

That's been my experience.

last night's south park was really good

anyway, team chris kirkpatrick

also you can't just blame eminem for the alt-right. he like nu-metal and the man show and all that other overly masculinized culture was just part of the market asserting itself to its perceived norms after being ~~disrupted~~ by cobain calling out rape culture, women having multiple leading roles on cbs, lilith fair, etc etc

Anyway, I'm glad that we are actually able to have this conversation now: to bring up any criticisms of Eminem in 1999/2000 was to shouted down by free speech warriors (now very much a cause of the alt.right).

In my experience every rap-hating asshole who knew that criticizing rap lyrics made them sound like a racist had a TON of criticisms about Eminem around that time

yep

if we wanted to be fair, we could have included Elton in this poll

eminem : the turn of the millennium :: robin thicke : 2013 ?

Their could probably be a good treatise written about how the Man Show evolved from a quasi-ironic endeavor under Kimmel and then got a little creepy under Rogan

in what way -- a date stamp?

xpost

it's not a cause/correlation relationship, I just think Eminem was the original troll

Post Malone shouts out Anthony Fantano on his double platinum album, leave our spaghetti boi alone

In my experience every rap-hating asshole who knew that criticizing rap lyrics made them sound like a racist had a TON of criticisms about Eminem around that time

Possibly true, but as with the cries of "FREE SPEECH!" this feels like another dodge. It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.

https://i.postimg.cc/fy3bbNCx/rs-1024x685-170814125025-1024-eminem-cm-81417.jpg
his house is a bit more restrained than I thought but might still be in contention for a mcmansion hell post.

Their could probably be a good treatise written about how the Man Show evolved from a quasi-ironic endeavor under Kimmel and then got a little creepy under Rogan

I've never seen The Man Show, but I have a hard time believing that Adam Carolla was ever even quasi-ironic on purpose.

I don't wanna "treatise" and "Eminem" (or "Moby") in same passage.

It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.

yeah tons of bad faith arguments. The Eminem ILM threads from the time are really something.

I mean,
1. Eminem is probably the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed
2. Part of the freedom of hip-hop is the ability for the practitioner to say funny, offensive shit, which goes back to even pre-rap to things like Dolemite and Blowfly and the dozens.
3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,
4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting,
5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.

How many of those you agree with or enjoy, I suppose, can determine how down you are with the era of Marshall's first three records. I'm 5 for 5, peace out!

the idea that eminem is somehow uniquely problematic is dumb ... didnt #metoo teach anyone anything abt trying to locate #problemtic behavior in one segment of culture or society

I agree he's not unique at all, part of a continuum

also

the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed

gtfo w that, yr smarter than this

3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,
4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting,
5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.

I don't think any of these three things is particularly interesting, but then interesting /= good either.

i do think eminem gets singled out bc its the ok way to say you think black cultural output is uniquely problematic without seeming like you're blaming black ppl specifically--not to discount the ways in which he's problematic in a way other rappers from that time weren't. Nor does that mean rap cultures isn't problematic in its own ways. But the cultural form he's a part of is obviously built in a certain tradition & tying that cultural production up as 'uniquely' problematic feels suspect to me...

that house seriously needs a fence both for Em's privacy and everyone else's eyes

deej that was the reason for my thicke comparison, blurred lines felt like it was pent-up frustration toward a target that didn't have as much 'problematic' baggage

1. Eminem is probably the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed

Woo-hoo; he's the Steve Vai of rapping.

2. Part of the freedom of hip-hop is the ability for the practitioner to say funny, offensive shit, which goes back to even pre-rap to things like Dolemite and Blowfly and the dozens

Sure, fine.

3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting

Not really.

4. the friction this causes when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting

White people haven't been "interlopers" in hip-hop since the Clash and Blondie were partying with Fab Five Freddy.

5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting

Sure, fine. It's all the other bullshit he "addressed" in his lyrics that makes him a waste of time.

yeah tons of bad faith arguments. The Eminem ILM threads from the time are really something.

I wasn't on ILM at the time, and I haven't read the threads, so if this debate was happening there at the time, I'm glad. In the mainstream music press and on other music forums (that I *was* on) at the time, it was another story.

can someone recommend other late 80s/early 90s ambient techno tracks that sound like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kdxk3qMYhs