"It's over, nobody listens to techno!" – Eminem Vs. Moby

eminem : the turn of the millennium :: robin thicke : 2013 ?

Their could probably be a good treatise written about how the Man Show evolved from a quasi-ironic endeavor under Kimmel and then got a little creepy under Rogan

in what way -- a date stamp?

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it's not a cause/correlation relationship, I just think Eminem was the original troll

Post Malone shouts out Anthony Fantano on his double platinum album, leave our spaghetti boi alone

In my experience every rap-hating asshole who knew that criticizing rap lyrics made them sound like a racist had a TON of criticisms about Eminem around that time

Possibly true, but as with the cries of "FREE SPEECH!" this feels like another dodge. It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.

https://i.postimg.cc/fy3bbNCx/rs-1024x685-170814125025-1024-eminem-cm-81417.jpg
his house is a bit more restrained than I thought but might still be in contention for a mcmansion hell post.

Their could probably be a good treatise written about how the Man Show evolved from a quasi-ironic endeavor under Kimmel and then got a little creepy under Rogan

I've never seen The Man Show, but I have a hard time believing that Adam Carolla was ever even quasi-ironic on purpose.

I don't wanna "treatise" and "Eminem" (or "Moby") in same passage.

It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.

yeah tons of bad faith arguments. The Eminem ILM threads from the time are really something.

I mean,
1. Eminem is probably the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed
2. Part of the freedom of hip-hop is the ability for the practitioner to say funny, offensive shit, which goes back to even pre-rap to things like Dolemite and Blowfly and the dozens.
3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,
4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting,
5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.

How many of those you agree with or enjoy, I suppose, can determine how down you are with the era of Marshall's first three records. I'm 5 for 5, peace out!

the idea that eminem is somehow uniquely problematic is dumb ... didnt #metoo teach anyone anything abt trying to locate #problemtic behavior in one segment of culture or society

I agree he's not unique at all, part of a continuum

also

the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed

gtfo w that, yr smarter than this

3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,
4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting,
5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.

I don't think any of these three things is particularly interesting, but then interesting /= good either.

i do think eminem gets singled out bc its the ok way to say you think black cultural output is uniquely problematic without seeming like you're blaming black ppl specifically--not to discount the ways in which he's problematic in a way other rappers from that time weren't. Nor does that mean rap cultures isn't problematic in its own ways. But the cultural form he's a part of is obviously built in a certain tradition & tying that cultural production up as 'uniquely' problematic feels suspect to me...

that house seriously needs a fence both for Em's privacy and everyone else's eyes

deej that was the reason for my thicke comparison, blurred lines felt like it was pent-up frustration toward a target that didn't have as much 'problematic' baggage

1. Eminem is probably the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed

Woo-hoo; he's the Steve Vai of rapping.

2. Part of the freedom of hip-hop is the ability for the practitioner to say funny, offensive shit, which goes back to even pre-rap to things like Dolemite and Blowfly and the dozens

Sure, fine.

3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting

Not really.

4. the friction this causes when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting

White people haven't been "interlopers" in hip-hop since the Clash and Blondie were partying with Fab Five Freddy.

5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting

Sure, fine. It's all the other bullshit he "addressed" in his lyrics that makes him a waste of time.

yeah tons of bad faith arguments. The Eminem ILM threads from the time are really something.

I wasn't on ILM at the time, and I haven't read the threads, so if this debate was happening there at the time, I'm glad. In the mainstream music press and on other music forums (that I *was* on) at the time, it was another story.

can someone recommend other late 80s/early 90s ambient techno tracks that sound like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kdxk3qMYhs

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(okay, I may have read your comment incorrectly--did you mean that these "bad faith arguments" were taking place on ILM as well?)

Buy all 3 volumes of Welcome to Paradise.

i really like early moby, by the time eminem was dissing him he was a total hack though

we are all made of stars is cool i guess?? idk why ppl are acting like its better than anything eminem ever did though

"We Are All Made Of Stars" is just the recycled chord progression from "Help Me To Believe," right down to the one-chord "verse"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E9D4P3GUkU

Bottom line is both made some great records and a lot of dross, I like Em's high points better I think but I don't care much either way.

did you mean that these "bad faith arguments" were taking place on ILM as well?

yes

Ah! Thanks, and sorry for reading you wrong.

"we're all made of stars" sucked wtf

Was just exploring what Moby's been up to since Play, and boy, doesn't Pitchfork like to use him as some kind of punching bag:

• Everything Was Beautiful, and Nothing Hurt (2018) - 5.7
• These Systems Are Failing (2016) - 4.0
• Destroyed (2011) - 3.8
• Wait For Me (2009) - 5.4
• Last Night (2008) - 5.2
• Hotel (2005) - 2.4
• 18 (2002) - 2.6
• Play (1999) - 5.0

We Are All Made of Stars sounded awesome when I first heard it.....then I saw 18 getting pretty horrible reviews

the song it reminds me the most of is "Heroes". which I had not heard at the time

Chipmunk on crack vs nice backround music.

i prefer crackground music

Listening to any Moby produced after 1994 is a bad idea.

I had my first edibles last year while listening to Moby's recent Lost Ambients and highly recommend the two together.

er, make that Long Ambients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxzXcJKIFoM

Listening to any Moby produced after 1994 is a bad idea.

― brotherlovesdub, Thursday, November 1, 2018 3:28 PM

we are all made of blahs

Play is so good and even some of the B-sides jam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A2V9Bu80J4

god that is so fuckin bad

the other thing taht sucks about play is that it ruined some of those lomax recordings for me

I tried to find the techno track that sampled the "nobody listens to techno" line, either the one I found was a different track or it's much worse than I remembered.

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, November 1, 2018 2:44 PM (six hours ago)

The good one is Size Triple D (=Danny Howell & Deep Dish) Techno.

https://www.discogs.com/Size-Triple-D-Techno/release/154120

It’s too long and way overplayed at the time, but it’s a banger.

Also cool that Tim F upthread reps the Move EP, I got that at the time and was floored, I thought the guy was just a Twin Peaks theme looping one hit wonder hack from a few years back, and I immediately started seeking out all his other stuff. None of it was nearly as good, and it turned out he really was a hack. His ambient stuff I rate though, simple but effective.

Eminem though, fuck he’s really gone to extraordinary lengths to paint himself as a total asshat, going through the whole effort of writing a whole album just to bitch about how critics didn’t like his previous (shit) one is beyond parody for 2018 Eminem.

Long Ambients is good but unremarkable imo

I hate this thread for getting Without Me stuck in my head when I see the title, a song that I haven't thought about in so many years.

the other thing taht sucks about play is that it ruined some of those lomax recordings for me

― marcos, Thursday, November 1, 2018 8:08 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I suddenly remembered the talk on an older thread about how Moby got the samples from a copy of Sounds of the South which he'd borrowed from a friend and never given back, what a cheap move, kind of wish I'd voted for Eminem now.

see that podcast I posted above, it's pretty great

Oh cool, thanks - bookmarked it!

Good thread premise. I don't have much to add, though, as my feelings towards both have always been fairly neutral.

why aren't there any techno/ambient diss tracks

Skit Ambients 1

Y Tu Mambients