it's not a cause/correlation relationship, I just think Eminem was the original troll
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:06 (five years ago) link
Post Malone shouts out Anthony Fantano on his double platinum album, leave our spaghetti boi alone
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:09 (five years ago) link
In my experience every rap-hating asshole who knew that criticizing rap lyrics made them sound like a racist had a TON of criticisms about Eminem around that time
Possibly true, but as with the cries of "FREE SPEECH!" this feels like another dodge. It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:12 (five years ago) link
https://i.postimg.cc/fy3bbNCx/rs-1024x685-170814125025-1024-eminem-cm-81417.jpghis house is a bit more restrained than I thought but might still be in contention for a mcmansion hell post.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:13 (five years ago) link
Their could probably be a good treatise written about how the Man Show evolved from a quasi-ironic endeavor under Kimmel and then got a little creepy under Rogan
I've never seen The Man Show, but I have a hard time believing that Adam Carolla was ever even quasi-ironic on purpose.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:13 (five years ago) link
I don't wanna "treatise" and "Eminem" (or "Moby") in same passage.
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:16 (five years ago) link
It was very difficult to have a genuine critical discussion about the content of his music.
yeah tons of bad faith arguments. The Eminem ILM threads from the time are really something.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:20 (five years ago) link
I mean, 1. Eminem is probably the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed 2. Part of the freedom of hip-hop is the ability for the practitioner to say funny, offensive shit, which goes back to even pre-rap to things like Dolemite and Blowfly and the dozens. 3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting, 5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.
How many of those you agree with or enjoy, I suppose, can determine how down you are with the era of Marshall's first three records. I'm 5 for 5, peace out!
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:30 (five years ago) link
the idea that eminem is somehow uniquely problematic is dumb ... didnt #metoo teach anyone anything abt trying to locate #problemtic behavior in one segment of culture or society
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:32 (five years ago) link
I agree he's not unique at all, part of a continuum
also
the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed
gtfo w that, yr smarter than this
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:35 (five years ago) link
3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting,4. the friction this causea when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting,5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting.
I don't think any of these three things is particularly interesting, but then interesting /= good either.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:37 (five years ago) link
i do think eminem gets singled out bc its the ok way to say you think black cultural output is uniquely problematic without seeming like you're blaming black ppl specifically--not to discount the ways in which he's problematic in a way other rappers from that time weren't. Nor does that mean rap cultures isn't problematic in its own ways. But the cultural form he's a part of is obviously built in a certain tradition & tying that cultural production up as 'uniquely' problematic feels suspect to me...
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:40 (five years ago) link
that house seriously needs a fence both for Em's privacy and everyone else's eyes
― the dutiful and the banned (rip van wanko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:41 (five years ago) link
deej that was the reason for my thicke comparison, blurred lines felt like it was pent-up frustration toward a target that didn't have as much 'problematic' baggage
― maura, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:43 (five years ago) link
1. Eminem is probably the most technically proficient/chops-based rapper who ever existed
Woo-hoo; he's the Steve Vai of rapping.
2. Part of the freedom of hip-hop is the ability for the practitioner to say funny, offensive shit, which goes back to even pre-rap to things like Dolemite and Blowfly and the dozens
Sure, fine.
3. The friction this causes when entering a pop sphere was interesting
Not really.
4. the friction this causes when it's a very respectful and learned white interloper was interesting
White people haven't been "interlopers" in hip-hop since the Clash and Blondie were partying with Fab Five Freddy.
5. the fact that he addressed both of those things explicitly in his lyrics was interesting
Sure, fine. It's all the other bullshit he "addressed" in his lyrics that makes him a waste of time.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:46 (five years ago) link
I wasn't on ILM at the time, and I haven't read the threads, so if this debate was happening there at the time, I'm glad. In the mainstream music press and on other music forums (that I *was* on) at the time, it was another story.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:49 (five years ago) link
can someone recommend other late 80s/early 90s ambient techno tracks that sound like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kdxk3qMYhs
― crüt, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:51 (five years ago) link
xpost
(okay, I may have read your comment incorrectly--did you mean that these "bad faith arguments" were taking place on ILM as well?)
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
Buy all 3 volumes of Welcome to Paradise.
― brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
i really like early moby, by the time eminem was dissing him he was a total hack though
we are all made of stars is cool i guess?? idk why ppl are acting like its better than anything eminem ever did though
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
"We Are All Made Of Stars" is just the recycled chord progression from "Help Me To Believe," right down to the one-chord "verse"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E9D4P3GUkU
― crüt, Thursday, 1 November 2018 18:57 (five years ago) link
Bottom line is both made some great records and a lot of dross, I like Em's high points better I think but I don't care much either way.
― the Warnock of Clodhop Mountain (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:01 (five years ago) link
did you mean that these "bad faith arguments" were taking place on ILM as well?
yes
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:03 (five years ago) link
Ah! Thanks, and sorry for reading you wrong.
― Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link
"we're all made of stars" sucked wtf
― the dutiful and the banned (rip van wanko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:05 (five years ago) link
Was just exploring what Moby's been up to since Play, and boy, doesn't Pitchfork like to use him as some kind of punching bag:
― enochroot, Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:11 (five years ago) link
We Are All Made of Stars sounded awesome when I first heard it.....then I saw 18 getting pretty horrible reviews
the song it reminds me the most of is "Heroes". which I had not heard at the time
― frogbs, Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:18 (five years ago) link
Chipmunk on crack vs nice backround music.
― nicky lo-fi, Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:24 (five years ago) link
i prefer crackground music
― President Keyes, Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:25 (five years ago) link
Listening to any Moby produced after 1994 is a bad idea.
― brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:28 (five years ago) link
I had my first edibles last year while listening to Moby's recent Lost Ambients and highly recommend the two together.
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:30 (five years ago) link
er, make that Long Ambients.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxzXcJKIFoM
― ... (Eazy), Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:31 (five years ago) link
― brotherlovesdub, Thursday, November 1, 2018 3:28 PM
we are all made of blahs
― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:33 (five years ago) link
Play is so good and even some of the B-sides jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A2V9Bu80J4
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:38 (five years ago) link
god that is so fuckin bad
― marcos, Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:08 (five years ago) link
the other thing taht sucks about play is that it ruined some of those lomax recordings for me
I tried to find the techno track that sampled the "nobody listens to techno" line, either the one I found was a different track or it's much worse than I remembered.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, November 1, 2018 2:44 PM (six hours ago)
The good one is Size Triple D (=Danny Howell & Deep Dish) Techno.
https://www.discogs.com/Size-Triple-D-Techno/release/154120
It’s too long and way overplayed at the time, but it’s a banger.
― Siegbran, Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:09 (five years ago) link
Also cool that Tim F upthread reps the Move EP, I got that at the time and was floored, I thought the guy was just a Twin Peaks theme looping one hit wonder hack from a few years back, and I immediately started seeking out all his other stuff. None of it was nearly as good, and it turned out he really was a hack. His ambient stuff I rate though, simple but effective.
Eminem though, fuck he’s really gone to extraordinary lengths to paint himself as a total asshat, going through the whole effort of writing a whole album just to bitch about how critics didn’t like his previous (shit) one is beyond parody for 2018 Eminem.
― Siegbran, Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:21 (five years ago) link
Long Ambients is good but unremarkable imo
― the Warnock of Clodhop Mountain (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:32 (five years ago) link
I hate this thread for getting Without Me stuck in my head when I see the title, a song that I haven't thought about in so many years.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:40 (five years ago) link
― marcos, Thursday, November 1, 2018 8:08 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I suddenly remembered the talk on an older thread about how Moby got the samples from a copy of Sounds of the South which he'd borrowed from a friend and never given back, what a cheap move, kind of wish I'd voted for Eminem now.
― Gavin, Leeds, Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:45 (five years ago) link
see that podcast I posted above, it's pretty great
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:50 (five years ago) link
Oh cool, thanks - bookmarked it!
― Gavin, Leeds, Thursday, 1 November 2018 20:55 (five years ago) link
Good thread premise. I don't have much to add, though, as my feelings towards both have always been fairly neutral.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 1 November 2018 21:00 (five years ago) link
why aren't there any techno/ambient diss tracks
― the dutiful and the banned (rip van wanko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 21:03 (five years ago) link
Skit Ambients 1
― nashwan, Thursday, 1 November 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link
Y Tu Mambients
― the Warnock of Clodhop Mountain (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 1 November 2018 22:58 (five years ago) link
without me still slaps
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 1 November 2018 23:15 (five years ago) link
Yeah I'm not much of an MM fan, but I gotta say I do like that single.
― greta van vliet (morrisp), Thursday, 1 November 2018 23:32 (five years ago) link
"Stan" felt huge at the time but in hindsight feels kinda gross, albeit a good song.
― billstevejim, Friday, 2 November 2018 14:11 (five years ago) link