Roxy Music: frickin' nice or frickin' not nice

I'm with you, alex -- perfect.

"Your application's FAILED!"

Does anyone know if the original "rock" version of Angel Eyes appears on CD anywhere?

Thanks for calling my attention to the box set. I just I sort of ignored it when it came out because I felt like I already had everything. Just listened to Sultanesque for the first time!

Words fail.

I need to hear "Whirlwind," but I can't because I'm at work. Maybe I could sneak into another space and listen.

I can't sing it for you, so here's the lyrics:

May Day
Cut down to size again
What then
When less is more my friend
I'll change
Let me start again
Disguise
It's too weird to explain
Why I'll
Always call your name
Adieu; with you
I could be anything
That I want to be
Whirlwind
Wildfire and driving rain
Wheels spin
Bowl me over hurricane
Whirlwind
Crack your cheeks and blow
Me Far
So far
How far
Is Shangri-la from here
And is it this way?
There she blows
Tear me down tornado
Whirlpool
Drag me to the deeps below
Whirlwind
Will a wildcat strike be tame?
Earthquake
Shake me to my feet again
It's crosswords go you near
A fatal clue I fear
This case is closed
Elementally, my dear.
Beware
Whirlwind

I always find it extremely difficult to rank Roxy albums after Siren (my favorite). I used to put Stranded at #8--I know that sounds crazy, but it never held together as an album for me--and now I'm thinking that it deserves to take 4th place. I think it just requires more patience than some of their other stuff.

I suppose it's difficult because they were constantly refining their sound, which makes it hard to compare something like Flesh + Blood to, say, Country Life. Also, there's just this incredible depth to their sound; how much you enjoy a particular song really depends on your level of attentiveness, or the mood you're in, I think. While a lot of the rocker singles don't require much more than passive listening, others are slow and meditative and obviously way less immediate. For instance, it took me a while to accept the fact that "Amazona" can sit next to "Psalm." And then, for me, there's this whole thing of increasingly funky and accomplished (though it was funky and accomplished from album 1) bass playing going on that I eat right up, and that weighs in perhaps too heavily on my opinion of a particular album. If you gave me the bass tracks to the Siren LP, I could be kept busy for weeks learninng them them.

Anyway, my list right now would look something like this:

1. Siren
2. Country Life
3. Manifesto
4. Stranded
5. For Your Pleasure
6. Roxy Music
7. Flesh + Blood
8. Avalon

...and that just felt painful and wrong. I really LIKE Avalon, it just isn't quite as musically impressive or deep as their other work. It also hurts to have Flesh + Blood so low. I mean how epic and mystical are those guitar chords on the title track? I rate Manifesto so highly not necessarily for the quality of songwriting (second half has a couple of unmemorable tracks), but for the sound and atmosphere, which is almost tailor-made to my tastes (and which seemed to influence Japan, one of my favorites), and because it's got some excellent bass playing from the late Alan Spenner (mainly on "Manifesto" and "Stronger Through the Years"). I mean some of that is simply Bernard Edwards-level stuff.

I couldn't tell you the number of times I've listened through Roxy's catalog in an effort to decide on my definitive ranking. I always fail!

Is anybody here able to painlessly rank their catalog?

Some of the things in this thread have put me in mind of no-one so much as Happy Mondays. Let's compare and contrast:

1. Band-as-gang. One charismatic leader, various faceless goons. I'm not really sure how many members there were in either band, but despite this or maybe because of this the gang element seems stronger. It's hard to imagine Gaz Whelan's ego getting in the way of the package, for example.
2. The politics. Very upwardly mobile, Roxy, but the Mondays were pretty Thatcherite in their own way, were they not? In the same way as New Labour were toryish. Not that this is a bad thing, I'd hazard, more that it reflects an aspirational and individualistic strand of British working-class culture that many people would prefer to pretend didn't exist.
3. Aesthetics. Obviously Roxy rule here. There's something about the Mondays, though, that I think could be called art-school if only they paid more attention to looks. I'm on shaky ground here, and it may just be the Factory sleeves and all that, but more than most bands the Mondays seemed to be a package, what with club culture, the lyrics, the sense of their being a movement.
4. 'John Peel observed they were one of few bands whom it was impossible to guess their influences'. I've never really thought about this with Roxy - I guess I see them as growing directly out of 50s rock n' roll without the big ideas of the 60s bands. The Mondays are more difficult - how on earth did they end up sounding like that?
5. Legacy. Not much, really. They never really get revived or reappraised, unlike some of their contemporaries (I'm thinking Led Zep here, though that's not quite right is it? Who were Roxy's contemporaries?). Also, no or very few cover versions, mostly because neither are really classic songwriting, it'd be hard to play their stuff on an acoustic guitar. A Mondays cover is pretty much unimaginable to me.

So how about it? A particular strand of British culture - individualistic, arty, awkward - personified in these two bands. Are there any others like them? Or am I just talking rubbish?

1. I don't know, I think Phil Manzanera and Andy Mackay had pretty distinctive, trashy styles.

2. Roxy and politics is an odd one, don't think you could shoehorn them into either a left or right wing perspective. Besides, Ferry's aristo poses were a totally different proposition from The Mondays loadsamoney schtick. Thatcher's 80s? Young people have liked having a bit of cash to flash since since forever. See: mods.

3. You could say that about almost any successfully marketed band ever. Although Facytory's Peter Saville did do a couple of sleeves for Roxy.

4. Monday's early stuff sounds like trying to play funk and getting it "wrong".

5.I'd say loads of shitty "baggy" influenced dance/indie crossover stuff over the years from Northside to Regular Fries to The Twang (sorry to bring these up) wears a big Mondays influence on its sleeve. You get to be in a slightly noodly, trippy band without looking too middle class: I guess that's the attraction.

Roxy's contemporaries were the other more artsy glam acts like Bowie and Bolan, Eno after he left too, obvs.

Overall, I don't really see the comparison at all, sorry.

Batshit post of the day goes to Ismael Klata.

There are few bands I hate more than the Happy Mondays, and I find it painful to read about them in an Roxy thread. Their music is amateurish and dirty, their "aesthetic" just plain bad--and having nothing at all to do with Roxy's. I think there's a reason that they don't have much of a legacy. And they ruined the 24 Hour Party People movie in my eyes.

Did you happen to be listening to them when you clicked on this thread?

Sorry for ruining your thread. I stand by my argument though, both bands can sound like a car crash (in a good way) and I can't imagine a band like this emerging anywhere else (INXS are maybe the closest). I'd also be tempted to bring Simple Minds into this as having a similar attitude to these two.

As regards aesthetics, while Roxy obviously produced something more refined, you'd never confuse it with posh - posh gets you Radiohead or Coldplay or James Blunt, not this kind of playfulness. The playfulness and lack of reverence is the quality that they share. The word I needed last night is 'vulgar'.

Ismael, could you compare and contrast, say, Deee-lite and Rush?

I had Smokey Robinson and Essential Logic in mind.

Things Roxy Music and The Happy Mondays DON'T have in common:
- locus of multiple major careers
- often described as "ahead of their time"
- considered interesting outside of Manchester
- people still listen to them sometimes
- fox hunting

How lovely is "Just Like You"?

any list of Roxy Music albums that has Avalon in eighth place is crazy crazy

unless it's chronological I guess

How lovely is "Just Like You"?

I always forget to rate this one higher. I love how his voice descends a few notes in the bridge.

"Just Like You" is fantastic, but still not in the Top 5 songs from "Stranded", because they are: "Mother Of Pearl", "Sunset", "Street Life", "Amazona" and "Serenade".

i can see the similarities in roxy and the mondays. nothing on the surface, but it's an interesting comparison

i mean shit, ilm got a lot of mileage out of "guns n roses = the smiths" back in the day, and this is way less crazy

Okay, Roxy Music has always been a big blind spot for me. For as long as I can remember Bryan Ferry's voice has hit me like nails on a chalkboard. However, I'm not the man I once was, as we age our tastes change, etc., so I've decided to give them another go, heading chronologically through the catalog (I've borrowed the first three, to start).

I'm really liking the music, but Ferry is still having the same effect. I'm not going to stop (maybe I'm just a masochist), but I don't know if there is anyway I'll be able to get past his voice to truly appreciate them. "If There Is Something" is one track that hooked me despite the voice, but it might just be because Julian Cope sorta ripped the progression for "Safesurfer". The other one that got me right away is "In Every Dream Home A Heartache", on which, surprisingly, I don't even mind Ferry's vocal.

Well that's a fairly restrained vocal even for him at that time, at least on the first part of the song.

The fruity vocals start to ebb on the third album and gone totally by Manifesto.

Ned, that might be why it works for me! Thanks for the encouragement (and the Legend vid) - I'll keep soldiering on.

The first album has a bit of the Bonzo's about it which I like; and I do appreciate the Eno synth touches and Manzanera's guitar work on the first two albums. Right now though, my favorite Roxy-related song is John Cale's "Gun".

Alfred - that is the best news I've had all morning. I think Ferry's tone may bug me, but the dying bird warbling in his throat is an extra bit of pain.

Stranded straddles both camps (no pun intended). He's learned a lot about pitch, so moments like "Mother of Pearl" and "Psalm" achieve marvelous levels of overwroughtness without the strain heard in the earlier recordings.

That's the last one I've borrowed so far. I need a bit of a break before I dive into it - maybe some Grandeur of Hair to reset my brain.

you might like avalon then, he doesn't yelp once on that.