was there another era where he really went for it as a showman
he's *always* onstage
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:17 (five years ago) link
or rather "onstage" I guess. "song and dance man" etc.
is this showbiz enough for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qE6WQmNus
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:18 (five years ago) link
The answer to all of the questions raised in this thread about this movie are the same.
Cocaine.
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:21 (five years ago) link
"Why is that person g-"Cocaine"How come Sam Shepard want-"Cocaine"What's with Dylan and acting all-"COCAINE
This movie made me have cocaine thoughts just watching.
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:22 (five years ago) link
This movie out cocaines the Last Waltz.
THE LAST WALTZ
― chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:24 (five years ago) link
Was about to say earlier on when someone mentioned Dylan looking crazed.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:25 (five years ago) link
The use of Ginsberg slightly offended me: "Hey, here's this homo jester, let's laugh at him but he's kinda cool." Otoh most of these men and women act like children. When I got to the end, I almost understood why Reagan got elected.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:41 (five years ago) link
“Must be Santa” is ‘enough’ of a lot of things for me, but ‘showbiz’ not in the top 20
― One Eye Open, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:54 (five years ago) link
I thought Ginsberg's hippy dippy benediction at the end was genuinely moving but admit that might be just because he reminds me so much of the Jewish side of my family
also liked how Ginsberg's facial hair/haircut changed throughout the film - one minute he looks like David Cross in a fake beard, the next hey its Wallace Shawn
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 June 2019 22:04 (five years ago) link
Patti Smith is great, but her south Jersey accent is so strong, it's jarring.
― kornrulez6969, Thursday, 13 June 2019 22:06 (five years ago) link
xpost Wasn't that the whole Boomer 70s trip? - post-hippie adolescent narcissism, the Me Generation and all that. Patti Smith sounded like Gibby in Blind Eye Sees All.
Ginsberg is just being Ginsberg, mad holy fool of the underground.
― llurk, Thursday, 13 June 2019 22:25 (five years ago) link
Also amazing to see the footage from the same performance of "Isis" that I've known for 31 years…
― TS The Students vs. The Regents (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 14 June 2019 00:18 (five years ago) link
Not to make this a Patti Smith pile-on but, as someone who was once enthralled by her boho punk poet thing...the more I watch old footage of her outside of the admittedly often enchanted circle of her PS Group - and this includes current era Patti Smith public appearances, writings etc - the more I realize she was and is a canny namedropping scenester who was waaay out of her league and has always used that shit to build herself up. Sorry but that's how I call it.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:00 (five years ago) link
And Joan Baez's dancing was fucking horrific and hilarious.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:01 (five years ago) link
xp That’s pretty much how she was portrayed in that Please Kill Me book, IIRC? (I have no opinion of her as an artist, tho I’ve heard a few cool/nice personal things)
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:09 (five years ago) link
but this isn't pejorative! I admire her for it.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:11 (five years ago) link
It's been years since I read Please Kill Me so don't recall that offhand but I'd concur.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:12 (five years ago) link
I dunno, Alfred. It truly makes me cringe.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:13 (five years ago) link
aside from her handful of high points, has always been a Boring Hippie
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:14 (five years ago) link
"Way out of her league" is wrong in that she got John Cale to produce her first album and moved on from album to album.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:14 (five years ago) link
I find much to dislike about her, as I pointed out, but you make her sound like a stupid groupie.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:15 (five years ago) link
I mean --- subtlety is something I admire if you're gonna "make the scene". And after a certain age it just comes across as embarrassing.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:15 (five years ago) link
"Stupid" or "groupie" are two things I wouldn't call her for sure.
― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 14 June 2019 01:18 (five years ago) link
Not knowing her biography very well but that she broke out around 75 I was watching the doc and thinking she was like 20 or 21 maybe and cutting her some slack. But no, as I’m sure most of y’all already knew she was like 28/29 then.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 14 June 2019 02:16 (five years ago) link
I like her records but reading Just Kids really reinforced a negative impression for me of PS being phony. Many bogus scenes of her portraying herself as a wide-eyed naif, where like shes at a restaurant and she notices a guy wearing a hat that reminds her of a hat she read about in a Rimbaud poem and as if in a dream she finds herself compelled to approach him and begin reciting her poetry and then she's amazed to find out later that he was a famous musician or writer or art scene figure who thinks she'd be perfect for this upcoming project and can you imagine that, all because of Rimbaud's hat?
― One Eye Open, Friday, 14 June 2019 02:53 (five years ago) link
I can.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 02:56 (five years ago) link
Rimbaud's hat?
― TS The Students vs. The Regents (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 14 June 2019 03:12 (five years ago) link
patti smith really is a total fake in so many ways, someone who seems to have spent her entire life carefully and consciously trying to be the coolest person in the room, to the point where she's doing that even today (when it's hard to imagine she has anything to gain from it). but her best records + performances are so good it kinda doesn't matter to me.
and tbh while i will always love his early poetry, allen ginsberg's reputation + legacy looks a lot worse than patti smith's these days.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 14 June 2019 03:29 (five years ago) link
I’m watching it now, and Smith’s opening number at the folk club is pretty compelling.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:33 (five years ago) link
Lol @ this loopy flirt convo btw. Dylan and a woman at a party
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:39 (five years ago) link
And now Ratso does a postmortem interview with her about it? These ppl weir so f’in weird
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:41 (five years ago) link
Holy shot, I didn’t know Jim Gianopulos was involved in this.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:53 (five years ago) link
sidebar re Pattii should let it go but i won’tI will stan Patti Smith to my graveshe is the patron saint of awkward self-conscious, poetry-loving, music-obsessed horny women who wears her fandoms as armor in a way that for me completely changed the possibilities of how to ~be~ in the world. I get that this can be an annoying affectation to most but she frees my soul & always hasit bugs me that criticisms of her feel so pointed & cruel like she kicked everyone’s dog or something by “behaving in this way” idk loved her opening performance at the club <3
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:06 (five years ago) link
Why is this Sharon Stone segment necessarily a put-on(?) She was born in ‘58, so she was in fact a teenager at the time (as she claims); why did one of those reviews of this doc say she‘s too young for it to be real?
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:19 (five years ago) link
if you can’t tell it’s made up idk what to tell youi love the “Isis” performance
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:23 (five years ago) link
I would never have known, lol. It didn’t seem “marked” in any particular way
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:25 (five years ago) link
lol it set my bullshit detector RIGHT off i fkn hate all the fakery fake interview bob-myth shit, i’d happily watch the concert & intersitial footage for hours tho
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:32 (five years ago) link
also i have all the time in the world for sam shepard & joan baez interviews
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:38 (five years ago) link
Oh, that reviewer I mentioned was Alfred, lol. (Alfred, what’d ya mean about the calculator?)Wait, so this Dutch filmmaker is also fake? What an odd deal... I wouldn’t have known that, either. I agree, the concert footage (and some of the other stuff from the time) is fantastic.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:40 (five years ago) link
I never loved the violin on Desire (or the album too much generally), but Scarlet Rivera is really cool onstage.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:41 (five years ago) link
the dutch film maker irl is Bette Midler’s husband
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:50 (five years ago) link
scarlet is my fave
I guess the Jim G. thing is also fake? His Wikipedia page doesn’t say nuthin’ about Dylan or music. I dunno, whatever, man. Guess I don’t “get it”
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:52 (five years ago) link
It’s like that thing where someone tells you a totally believable, reasonable-sounding lie; then says “April Fool! You fell for it!” And you’re like... uh, ok.
― Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Friday, 14 June 2019 06:02 (five years ago) link
forget it jake, it’s Dylantown
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 June 2019 06:08 (five years ago) link
I watched the Patti Smith bits the way I always experience (most of) her work: crouching behind my couch waiting for it to end.
The Joni performance (at Gordon Lightfoot's house, with McGuinn and Dylan strumming along!) was breath-taking.
I could have done with more Scarlet Rivera. And Joan Baez! I think her interviews in both Scorsese/Dylan docs are great.
I have to admit I don't really enjoy most of the actual Rolling Thunder music. Dylan's still much too shouty on stage for my taste in that period.
― Sam Weller, Friday, 14 June 2019 09:51 (five years ago) link
Oh, and was Bob Neuwirth actually well-known as a performer back then? I know he was a famous hanger-on and sometime songwriter, but it was odd seeing the promoters handing out flyers for the shows shouting, "Come see Bob Dylan! Joan Baez! Bob Neuwirth!"
― Sam Weller, Friday, 14 June 2019 09:53 (five years ago) link
Oh, that reviewer I mentioned was Alfred, lol. (Alfred, what’d ya mean about the calculator?)
There's no way she could've been old enough to have met Dylan, I thought. I was wrong, though. I got her age from an inaccurate sight.
But, yeah, she was obviously, uh, getting into the spirit of exaggeration regardless lol
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2019 10:41 (five years ago) link
I got her age from an inaccurate sight.
This is a hilarious typo.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 June 2019 11:22 (five years ago) link
Worthy of Dylan!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 June 2019 11:23 (five years ago) link