some excellent barely-concealed bigotry itt, well done
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 20 December 2019 13:39 (four years ago) link
Also what's this proscriptive nonsense that you can't be a "proper" jazz singer if you don't scat?
ahem...prescriptive nonsense
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Friday, 20 December 2019 13:48 (four years ago) link
Did you get to the part yet where Sammy is coming out of the Copa, it’s about 3 in the morning and he sees Frank. Frank’s walking down Broadway by himself
― calstars, Friday, 20 December 2019 13:51 (four years ago) link
As far as I'm concerned, crooners are one of the least intelligible aspects of American popular culture.
― pomenitul, Friday, 20 December 2019 14:02 (four years ago) link
Someone gifted me OG copies of just about every classic Sinatra Capitol album (and even some not so Classic ones). The Lonesome Road is such a great song.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Friday, 20 December 2019 15:33 (four years ago) link
A jazz singer that can’t scat is like a basketball player that can’t dribble.
― Donrosebud, Friday, 20 December 2019 15:39 (four years ago) link
I don’t know who this Pete Buttigieg guy is but I like him already.
― Donrosebud, Friday, 20 December 2019 15:41 (four years ago) link
Pete "Bebop" Buttigieg
― Evan, Friday, 20 December 2019 15:51 (four years ago) link
I don't know anyone credible who considers Sinatra a jazz singer. He was a pop singer, and a great one at that. But jazz musicians revered him for his musicianship. "If I could put together exactly the kind of band I wanted, Frank Sinatra would be the singer," Lester Young once said.
And sorry, but scat singing is not a prerequisite to singing jazz, any more than vocalese is. I guess Billie Holiday wasn't a jazz singer? Donrosebud's initial post is so ridiculous that I can't tell if he's putting us on or not.
― Jazzbo, Friday, 20 December 2019 15:52 (four years ago) link
Someone get Scatbo in here for a second opinion
― Evan, Friday, 20 December 2019 16:04 (four years ago) link
lol
― calstars, Friday, 20 December 2019 16:08 (four years ago) link
http://johnlahr.com/frank-sinatra/
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 16:12 (four years ago) link
― Evan, Friday, December 20, 2019 10:04 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago)
the moment when the FBI special liquids division was called to the scene
― Peaceful Warrior I Poser (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 December 2019 16:39 (four years ago) link
i kind of nod in the general direction of frank sinatra because so many people respect him, he was a pioneer in some ways (arguably the first "album" of songs meant to work together as a cohesive set of music? many people are saying? he always gets this accolade but it always seems like someone else must have done it first and just wasn't as famous), and apart from anything else he's a major cultural figure of 20th century america. when you're stumbling around the kitchen at 2am swishing around ice in a hatch rocks glass, you might say to yourself "ring a ding ding", absent-mindedly, and that means...something
but yeah, can't stand the way he sings. just not my thing at all
― Peaceful Warrior I Poser (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 December 2019 16:47 (four years ago) link
and plus, he can't scat! and that means he's not a jazz singer! lol
where's the safe for work scat thread? want to weigh in on how it's important to the 21st century but also not my thing at all
― Peaceful Warrior I Poser (Karl Malone), Friday, 20 December 2019 16:48 (four years ago) link
want to weigh in on how it's important to the 21st century
sorry, i meant - very obviously - the 20th century
arguably the first "album" of songs meant to work together as a cohesive set of music? many people are saying? he always gets this accolade but it always seems like someone else must have done it first and just wasn't as famous
as the piece Οὖτις linked mentions, it wasn't even possible much earlier since it was in major part a product of technological advancements
― Simon H., Friday, 20 December 2019 16:50 (four years ago) link
I don't know anyone credible who considers Sinatra a jazz singer. He was a pop singer, and a great one at that.
The distinction between "jazz" and "pop" is pretty fuzzy wrt the pre-rock era tbf.
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Friday, 20 December 2019 17:04 (four years ago) link
Donrosebud, it's 99% of that jazz shit that is not music
gtfo
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 December 2019 17:08 (four years ago) link
I can totally understand why the crooners became a sensation, after centuries of singers belting it out full force on stage trying to reach the punters in the back you suddenly get to hear measured, velvery soft voices on your radio, it must have been amazing.
― Siegbran, Friday, 20 December 2019 17:45 (four years ago) link
Sinatra's conversational cadences are why I love him.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 December 2019 17:47 (four years ago) link
The distinction between "jazz" and "pop" is pretty fuzzy wrt the pre-rock era tbf.Not fuzzy at all when you consider that one genre relies heavily on improvisation and the other does not.
― Jazzbo, Friday, 20 December 2019 17:57 (four years ago) link
How strictly did most people recognize that distinction at the time? Sinatra sang with Tommy Dorsey's and Harry James's big bands, he topped Down Beat's vocalist poll in 1941.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:11 (four years ago) link
Sinatra played with jazz giants throughout his whole career - Dorsey, Basie, Jobim etc.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:12 (four years ago) link
er sang with
The ballads are nice but I like the corny, swinging Sinatra even more. My favorite is Sinatra at the Sands because you get the corny jokes and banter as well.
― o. nate, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
Sinatra, Elvis, Streisand — undeniably enormously talented, but I'm not interested in the material they applied it to. (Exceptions apply for all 3)
― Miami weisse (WmC), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:20 (four years ago) link
Sinatra played with jazz giants throughout his whole career - Dorsey, Basie, Jobim etc.He also collaborated with Bono. That doesn't make him a pretentious rock poseur, however.
― TO BE A JAZZ SINGER YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCAT (Jazzbo), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:25 (four years ago) link
http://johnlahr.com/frank-sinatra/― Οὖτις, Friday, December 20, 2019 11:12 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Οὖτις, Friday, December 20, 2019 11:12 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Great piece! Thanks.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:26 (four years ago) link
i read that piece a while back, it's great
it's also weird that ppl keep bringing up elvis in this thread, he really has very little in common w/ sinatra apart from being a dude who sings
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:35 (four years ago) link
My favorite is Sinatra at the Sands because you get the corny jokes and banter as well.
I was listening to this earlier in the week - I agree that it's great (albeit not my favorite) - and so many of the jokes are totally inscrutable, not just because there's audience interaction clearly going on that couldn't be captured in an audio recording, but more because so much of the context for his rambling is incomprehensible from a remove of 5+ decades.
Granted, the Dino jokes are still funny.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
i think it's just the prevalent (and, occasionally in their latter years, accurate) image of them both being corny showmen more than inspired musicians.
― omar little, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
Sinatra rules of course, i actually prefer him to Elvis tbqf
I do too and its not even close
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
same
― Simon H., Friday, 20 December 2019 18:46 (four years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:53 (four years ago) link
Donrosebud, it's 99% of that jazz shit that is not musicgtfo― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 12:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, December 20, 2019 12:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
dang, that is stone cold!
― Legacy of Banality (Pillbox), Friday, 20 December 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
i love sinatra - esp love the recent 3-disc Standing Room Only (with shows from Sands in 66, Spectrum in Philly in 74 and Reunion Arena in Dallas in 87).
does hurting still hate him in 2019? hard to imagine someone hating him tho i do understand hating him if yr only exposure is New York New York
― Mordy, Friday, 20 December 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
i love elvis but his career is incredibly inconsistent even during his "good" periods. there are tons of sinatra albums i can put on and enjoy from start to finish, which is not really the case with elvis other than the sun sessions.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:07 (four years ago) link
Frank over Elvis here, too.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link
Miles Davis once said Sinatra inspired much of his phrasing on the trumpet.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link
He said something similar about Blossom Dearie as well, iirc.
I love Frank, it's Dino who leaves me cold.
― fetter, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:16 (four years ago) link
Dino seems like the more likable *person* but christ his records are bad
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link
is there a definitive Frank biography? even that two-part HBO doc barely seemed to scratch the surface
― Simon H., Friday, 20 December 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link
Dino's voice is very pleasing, and it works well if you don't give a shit as he doesn't
Elvis was a huge fan and debtor
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link
Dean's career is basically an inside joke, which is abundantly clear when you see vintage Martin & Lewis TV appearances, and he's as funny as Jerry.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:30 (four years ago) link
not denying he was v funny, and charming when singing on-screen. but the records? nah
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:32 (four years ago) link
wondering how many people itt regularly or ever listen to music featuring scat singing of any kind
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 20 December 2019 19:32 (four years ago) link
it's all bobby mcpherrin, all day in my world
― xmas respecter (jim in vancouver), Friday, 20 December 2019 19:34 (four years ago) link