In the old Rolling Stone Record Guide, Dave Marsh calls Verlaine “an interesting Jerry Garcia–influenced guitarist who lacked melodic ideas or any emotional sensibility.”
― You have seen the heavy groups (morrisp), Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:07 (four years ago) link
lol waht
― Generous Grant for Stepladder Creamery (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:08 (four years ago) link
I remember when I first heard Television way back when learning that they got Dead comparisons overseas. But Xgau aside, I'd never heard that comparison here. I guess others made it, too? Or it's possible it was just critical butt sniffing. Anyway, def. weird that any critic would compare Verlaine to Garcia then say he "lacked melodic ideas or any emotional sensibility," which are two hallmarks (imo) of Garcia's playing, like him or not. Verlaine could indeed be cold, though.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:10 (four years ago) link
Television guitars remind me more of Quicksilver Messenger Service
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:16 (four years ago) link
Yes, that's there too, though QMS are probably even more disappointing to my ears that the Dead.
― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:20 (four years ago) link
happy to tweak xgau all kinds of ways but he's not a lazy critic in that particular way. marsh does not get this indulgence from me lol
― mark s, Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
Marsh is the absolute worst
― sleeve, Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:31 (four years ago) link
No, Xgau I can totally believe making the comparison (even if, or especially if, he was being confrontational with it). Marsh I can totally believe fronting.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:51 (four years ago) link
Wow, just learned about this (remastered versions of their GDR stuff) -- love these albums: https://store.dead.net/grateful-dead-records-collection-digital-box.html
It's also on vinyl, but not CD (sadly)... I would buy if it were :(
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Thursday, 20 February 2020 18:00 (four years ago) link
After reading an "Altamont" book, I'm pretty confident 99% of the connection between the Angels and Dead was drugs.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:51 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
the HA seem to have an enduring love of jam bands as they were big supporters of my gf's dad's jam band in the 80s/early 90s in the vancouver area
― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 20 February 2020 18:04 (four years ago) link
I never knew about this, but maybe you did?
In the 1980s and 1990s, there was a major expansion of the club into Canada. The Quebec Biker war was a violent turf war that began in 1994 and continued until late 2002 in Montreal. The war began as the Hells Angels in Quebec began to make a push to establish a monopoly on street-level drug sales in the province. A number of drug dealers and crime families resisted and established groups such as the "Alliance to fight the Angels". The war resulted in the bombings of many establishments and murders on both sides. It has claimed more than 150 lives and led to the incarceration of over 100 bikers.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:00 (four years ago) link
And anyway:
an enduring love of jam bands
Jam bands=drugs=Hells Angels.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:01 (four years ago) link
truly it is a mystery
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:06 (four years ago) link
In the 1980s and 1990s, there was a major expansion of the club into Canada. The Quebec Biker war was a violent turf war that began in 1994 and continued until late 2002 in Montreal. The war began as the Hells Angels in Quebec began to make a push to establish a monopoly on street-level drug sales in the province. A number of drug dealers and crime families resisted and established groups such as the "Alliance to fight the Angels". The war resulted in the bombings of many establishments and murders on both sides. It has claimed more than 150 lives and led to the incarceration of over 100 bikers.― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, February 20, 2020 11:00 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
canadian organized crime is very weird. multi-ethnic gangs called like "united nations" and shit allying with, or against the hells angels, to control meth sales or whatever. sketchy as hell
― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:07 (four years ago) link
Man would it suck to be in a band and have the Hells Angels into you.
Always worth posting this:
https://www.beatlesbible.com/wp/media/681204_george-harrison-hells-angels-memo-apple-580x386.jpg
The story goes that the UK had sort of a fake HA club, and that George et al. were not prepared for the real deal, and had to hustle to get them out of there.
And speaking of the HA and Canada:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccyu44rsaZo
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:31 (four years ago) link
"straighten out" Czechoslovakia?
the Thompson book is essential imo
― sleeve, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:36 (four years ago) link
There's some footage of the UK HA in the 1969 The Stones in the Park movie. Literally just pimply teens in leather jackets and Nazi medals, for the most part.
― blatherskite, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:20 (four years ago) link
You make them sound like the Bromley Contingent!
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:27 (four years ago) link
I think there was a bit more to British HA than pimply teens tbf - in fact they're still around and occasionally causing mayhem, though only with each other.
― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:30 (four years ago) link
more discussion re the "fake uk hells angels" from upthread: should i give the grateful dead a chance?
(i still basically think the apple incident is overstated, greatly amped up in retrospect to make a funnier story)
― mark s, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:36 (four years ago) link
we were all pimply teens once! plus the UKHA must have had a start-point when it wasn't very daunting, however hard they later became
― mark s, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:38 (four years ago) link
Do the UKHA turn up at Cropready? I know it's a big magnet for bikers in general (my sister used to live in Cropready). If so - another Fairport/Dead connec!
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:40 (four years ago) link
xpost Yeah, I had a hunch I posted about it already. I dunno, I get the impression the Hell's Angels as they are today are nowhere near the bad hombres that they were back then.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:43 (four years ago) link
really?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels_MC_criminal_allegations_and_incidents#United_States
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:47 (four years ago) link
I mean in terms of national menace. I have no doubt that almost every Hell's Angel member is bad news, but their prominence has declined, or at least has been fully absorbed into other bad organizations.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:52 (four years ago) link
it's a good question, though. Bike gangs used to be go to boogeyman in pop culture, but not so much anymore.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:54 (four years ago) link
we've had a lot of go-to boogeymen - communists, islamic terrorists, teenage hoodlums, biker gangs, black people, brown people, techbros, hippies
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:57 (four years ago) link
I'm Irish and I like the Dead.
― Duke, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:28 (four years ago) link
the branch in my city was just a meth trafficking ring fwiw
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:29 (four years ago) link
Here in Berlin the Hells Angels and their rivals the Bandidos are involved in organised crime and kill each other now and again
― Duke, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:37 (four years ago) link
I never got why people (OK, often Brits) apparently compared (or I guess compare?) Television to the Grateful Dead. While I concede they both have guitars, beyond that I don't hear it.
And the guitar sound isn't really the same. The Feelies, on the other hand, on songs like "Slipping (Into Something)" and "Find a Way," have guitars that are totally Grateful Dead-like--Grateful Dead guitars + Lou Reed vocals.
― clemenza, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:42 (four years ago) link
Heh, if anything I think the Feelies sound even less like the Dead!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:53 (four years ago) link
yeah I don't hear that at all, the propulsion and krautrock rhythms are so central to the Feelies for one thing
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:56 (four years ago) link
is there an era when propulsion is an actual GD thing?
― mark s, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:57 (four years ago) link
“Touch of Grey” maybe.
― o. nate, Thursday, 20 February 2020 21:58 (four years ago) link
"Alabama Getaway", "Shakedown Street", a lot of the post '77 stuff imo
― sleeve, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:00 (four years ago) link
I think "The Eleven" is reliably propulsive, whenever it appears...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_WpX9s2_rQ
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:05 (four years ago) link
another case of a shit rhythm section not being able to maintain a tempo or a beat, with some pretty good guitar playing being the only standout factor.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:13 (four years ago) link
it does almost have that Beefheart thing of different band members playing different rhythms against and on top of each other, but none of them seem capable of actually keeping their individual parts together, nor is it as knotty and clangorous
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:14 (four years ago) link
So I listened to "Dark Star" from "Live/Dead" and it started off like Agitation Free or one of those 3rd division Krautrock jam bands I don't like very much. The (tiny) song bit itself was naff then back to the jam. I like Jerry Garcia's playing, but maybe not for 23 minutes straight? I did expect something a bit more transcendental but I suppose it's OK, I prefer when Amon Duul II do it though.
― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:15 (four years ago) link
Maybe Garcia is more like Richard Lloyd than Tom Verlaine?
― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:16 (four years ago) link
another case of a shit rhythm section not being able to maintain a tempo or a beat
but it's groovy in a very Dead-specific way... I guess either you hear it, or you don't.
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:21 (four years ago) link
lol they even named the song after the time signature, just in case.
Man, imagine if Robert Quine was in the Dead ... Or, like, Sonny Sharrock.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:23 (four years ago) link
I guess the Dead are not a band I would try very hard to "make a case for," or try to convince anyone to keep trying if they don't connect with it (though, again, that's what happened with me... eventually, it clicked).
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:23 (four years ago) link
Don't know if it's been mentioned upthread, but this is the key document re UK Hell's Angels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng8Ll7x08Vk&feature=youtu.be
It's pretty terrifying stuff
― fetter, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:23 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng8Ll7x08Vk&feature=youtu.be
― fetter, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:24 (four years ago) link
xxp "Just in case"? Lol. I mean, musicians do that kind of thing, I wouldn't read too much into it.
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:24 (four years ago) link
"Lady if you have to ask you'll never know!!"
― mark s, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:25 (four years ago) link
Argh, apols. It's a BBC documentary from 1973. Sorry for fucking up the board.
― fetter, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:25 (four years ago) link
xpost The Dead and Dave Brubeck, maybe. But Genesis? They called the song "Turn It On Again," dammit, not "Thirteen."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 22:25 (four years ago) link