Taylor Swift - Folklore

my crackpot theory about this album: frontloaded the more 'immediate' stuff, kept the slower, sadder stuff for later, but actually, the slower sadder stuff was more interesting (to me at least), if we're getting sad taylor i want truly-desolate taylor, not sad-indie taylor

lol sorry to ride roughshod over your much-more-thoughtful and probably accurate theory tho tim

Happy to hear an album from her that isn’t suited for stadiums/choreography — which is why Alfred’s Tunnel of Love comparison fits so well. An artist who plays Wembley not writing for Wembley.

cardigan sounds awfully Lana Del Rey-ish.

But, like, good.

brb gonna find a support group for ppl who strongly disliked the first 7 tracks and rly quite liked the last 9, this is too weird

So AOTY ?

yes i am sure we are all agreed this is aoty

"peace" is sick as hell isn't it lj

Poll it this fall vs. Fetch The Bolt Cutters.

yeah i was surprised 'peace' was rated so low on rym, it makes good use of that weird little alarm tone

second half of this album's production moves away from bon iver and towards...foxing? thinking aloud here haha

Foxing do seem destined for pop star collaborator status

maybe it just made me want to hear 'nearer my god' again haha, now there's an album we can all agree on. yeah christ they NEED to work with some stars

Uh

Jessie Ware recorded the album of the year

This isn on par with Lover and just as overstuffed. I love the songs I love, but I just can't with Long Albums anymore .

so based on that clip up there - and perhaps there are exceptions - but it sounds like he made tracks and she wrote melodies and lyrics to those tracks? am i reading that wrong?

this album is really good and a bit boring and too long. if it were 11 tracks instead of 16, the boring part would fade away.

but it sounds like he made tracks and she wrote melodies and lyrics to those tracks

yes she's been writing this way with producers since 1989

I wonder how much that process has then influenced the overall output of her last few albums, including her lyrical approach.

I mean, if someone gives you the bones of the arrangement for “I Forgot That You Existed” or “You Need To Calm Down”, you’re hardly going to turn that into a “Cardigan” or “Epiphany” lyrically.

So in that sense, Taylor’s output may well be strongly contingent on her collaborators, but not in the way people traditionally mean: rather, because her own creative process seems to strongly involve following the lines of possibility afforded by the material she gets from them.

i do tire of dessner's approach a little by the end of this, but i have that same problem with nearly every national album (except i am easy to find but that's still longer than it needed to be)

there's nothing even close to a bad track though which is the first in a long time for her. so much better than lover for that alone

she had production credits on all of lover so i'd assume she was more involved in the arrangements on that than with the dessner tracks on this & her past martin/shellback collaborations

wish he'd aaron lessner am I right

so based on that clip up there - and perhaps there are exceptions - but it sounds like he made tracks and she wrote melodies and lyrics to those tracks? am i reading that wrong?

worth noting that this is an overwhelmingly common arrangement

"betty" is the track that's closest to being from her nebraska and i would love a whole album of it

xpost I know. Wasn't saying it isn't.

anyway, it must be totally wild to send off a folder of tracks to Taylor Swift and then weeks later they start coming back with a bunch of words and melodies you never could've expected.

not to mention sending off a folder of things you think of as yours and then when they come back, they're really no longer yours ... they are now Taylor Swift songs. I mean, I know he has collaborated with many people, but in most cases his name makes the headline.

This album sent me back to Lover, which I haven't listened to in a long time, and is sounding really good.

xpost None of this feels much like Nebraska to me at all, but if I had to choose the song that comes closest, it would probably be Seven. This dark story told from the perspective of a child who doesn't understand what she's seeing - seems like new ground for Taylor and I like it. The rest of this seems lyrically like pretty generic TSwift to me. Seven, Illicit Affairs, Invisible String, August and Peace are songs I'll probably listen to again, but to me it feels like a step back from Lover. There's nothing on here that grabs me the way The Archer did.

My problem with Betty and August and Cardigan - the whole high school trio - is that I find Taylor Swift's version of high school really boring. Like a Sarah Dessen YA novel. I really don't care whether Betty and James get back together or not; they'll both be fine, and they'll break up next year when they go to college anyway.

I have never thought the subject matter per se of Taylor’s songs was particularly interesting - the topics are primarily useful as a framework for her to stretch herself as a songwriter and performer.

Like, nothing about the relationship story in “All Too Well” is interesting except what the songwriting details (e.g. the Chekhov’s gun device) and the execution/delivery bring to the table.

Which is not to say that “Seven” isn’t a stretch for Taylor - but less, I think, because of the story it tells than because that story then demands a different approach to the storytelling given the narrator’s position necessitates a very specific and oblique approach to the subject matter.

the high school trio is made far more interesting by the queer reading, which i absolutely buy into now

Also re album of the year Beyoncé hasn’t done her Afro-futurist thing yet so I will wait for that

"Cold was the steel of my ax to grind for the boys who broke my heart / Now I send their babies presents"
― Ned Raggett

this line is so good, and also the followup:

"Gold was the color of the leaves when I showed you around Centennial Park / Hell was the journey but it brought me heaven"

Feeling this on a rainy pandemic day.

This album is just insanely good

Also anyone who is feeling this should join Brad and I in enjoying the last three Vanessa Carlton albums

lol assuming they are at all similar to this, the last thing I want tbh is three more albums of this right now.

My tears ricochet <3

Btw, an interesting side-discussion I think worth having is the very idea of releasing an album into the void right now. I'm not as up on pop stuff as some/many of you, but I could have sworn a few months ago people were calling the Dua Lipa album basically the smash hit album of the summer by default. Since then there have been some heavy-hitters (critical and/or popular) that have been releasing to wildly varying degrees of success, afaict. There was the Jessie Ware, which is awesome but I don't think she's a household name, at least not in the States. But then there's the Gaga, who *is*, but whose album as far as I can tell missed the landing pad entirely and splashed down in the water. Then there's the Chicks, whose album arrived with some moderate degree of fanfare but who (again, strictly anecdotally) seemed to have made only a modest impression. But this Swift album, which arrived with *no* fanfare, clearly caught everyone's attention in addition to catching them by surprise.

Anyway, there's a good chance none of these acts will be able to tour behind any of these albums any time soon, maybe not for another year at least, and certainly outside of the bounds of the usual promotional cycle, which makes me wonder how long they'll last in everyone's minds after being launched into said void. Does the usual promotional cycle even matter any more? Is it better to release an album now or delay indefinitely? In the case of Swift's album, as I understand it it was written and recorded during the pandemic, which sets it apart from those other albums. Does/did that make a difference? It's a great record regardless, but was she also just really good at reading the room? I wonder if there are a lot of other artists right now weighing their options. Do we wait it out indefinitely or just take the plunge and do something now? Especially with touring (and therefore their most prominent revenue stream) turned off, it's tantamount to just throwing money in a wishing well and seeing what will happen. Billy Eilish is readying something else, right? But I wonder what else this weird year has in store.

Woke up with "This Is Me Trying" in my head and now want an entire Taylor Swift darkwave album.

There was the Jessie Ware, which is awesome but I don't think she's a household name, at least not in the States. But then there's the Gaga, who *is*, but whose album as far as I can tell missed the landing pad entirely and splashed down in the water.

"Rain on Me" and "Stupid Love" are radio hits, album debuted at #1. I still hear the hits.

i've only listened to "cardigan" so far but i'm really glad to see that she's released an album that's not geared in some way for radio. the white stations she's meant to cater to in particular have largely given up on introducing its audience to new music, but she of all people does not need them. artistically, this move also lets her play to her strengths -- i agree with those who've suggested that her high-octane pop material often lacks the flexibility to let her really do her thing lyrically.

'this is me trying' is the most beautiful song ever.

― Nourry, Friday, July 24, 2020 3:35 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I just got that funny feeling in my stomach listening to it, like when something is beautiful that it moves you physically. this album is incredible.

the broader 'teen test' of course is the streaming charts, and for the moment this album seems to be doing significantly better than lover was doing at this point. it's even doing major damage on apple music, a service that serves a pretty rap-centric audience.

anyway the numerous comparisons to "this love" upthread have me hopeful, will def give it a full listen soon

the devil's in the details but you got a friend in meee

My anecdotal "hit" standard is whether I hear something if I seek it out or not. Dua Lipa, for example, I hear a lot. From my kids and from other places. But Lady Gaga, had I not known she had a new album out I would not have known if she had a new album out.

Do they not play #1 singles in America then?

Maybe I hear the wrong radio? Fewer cars driving by?

^ it sounds too absurd to be real, but yes, legitimately a good number of #1 hits in the us this year will ultimately fail to find a home at radio. this is partly because pop radio is being historically slow to accept new hits but also because of the recent frequency of efforts to hype the charts, which prompted rule changes at billboard that will go into effect soon but have not yet. (and yes, i'd say it's clear that tay's 16 exclusive deluxe physicals is an obvious chart-hyping strategy that i doubt they'd be going forward with if the new rules had already gone into effect, but it's not like she needs it to make a splashy debut.)

re: gaga on american radio lately: it's not just you. "stupid love" was briefly accepted pretty widely at radio, but it ran out of steam fast in the sales-and-streams department and it was ultimately dropped from playlists quickly. "rain on me" is doing quite a bit better, but it too seems to be slowing down in its ascent and could also be dropped prematurely.

as i mentioned above, white radio is currently being hyper-conservative wrt which hits it accepts into heavy rotation, and those that it does accept are likely to stay for a pretty long while. because white radio has spent the past several years largely ignoring streaming charts, it overwhelmingly determines what gets played by passive audience research. new would-be hits like "rain on me" will certainly get their chance, but if they don't light up in this audience testing, they'll get dropped so fast it's like they never existed. (incidentally this was the fate that befell numerous taylor swift singles from her past couple of albums.)

Rain On Me was pretty much inescapable here in the UK

thinking about how if cardigan/august/betty is the "same story in different perspective" trio then how "when i felt like i was an old cardigan under someone's bed, you put me on and said i was your favorite" gets colored by the double meaning, how to put someone on also means to lie to them, so what initially seems like a heartwarming lyric on first listen gets twisted when you hear those next songs. james shows up to the party and puts on the cardigan and hopes it's enough, betty knew she'd come back to him but he chased two girls and lost the one. there is tenderness there but she's also aware of what he's done.

you said the way my blue eyes shined put those georgia stars to shame that night. i said, "that's a lie".