There were separate sections for rock/pop/country/soul, blues, jazz, and gospel. There wasn't really a main list iirc.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 14:54 (four years ago) link
I think a list for different genres would have been far more interesting than a top 500 rock/pop with token other entries
― Oor Neechy, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 14:55 (four years ago) link
There’s good albums in the 500-201 portion but unfortunately with these “best of all time” lists most of the attention is directed towards the top tier.
I’ve always thought, and it’s specially evident in this revision that such an extensive list would benefit if broken down into 10 top 50 albums into subgenres, like say:
- Top 50 classic rock albums of all time- Top 50 rap/hip hop albums of all time- Top 50 jazz albums of all time- Top 50 soul/funk/r&b albums of all time- Top 50 electronic albums of all time- Top 50 “world” music albums of all time- Top 50 metal albums of all time- Top 50 blues/folk/country/americana albums of all time
And so on... you get 10 times the chance to create a canon, for more clicks and more discussion.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 15:01 (four years ago) link
Sund4r is correct about the separate sections in the red (1979) edition, and no main list. Weirdly, the albums in each artist's entry are listed alphabetically, while the reviews themselves are chronological, as they should be. Bob Blumenthal wrote the majority of the jazz reviews, iirc, and stuck around for the 1983 yellow RS Jazz Record Guide, where a few other critics hopped on.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 15:02 (four years ago) link
There is also a separate section for Anthologies and Soundtracks in the 1979 version.
― ABBA O RLY? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 15:04 (four years ago) link
Some notable Bands and Artists that didn't make the cut below. Some of these are listed because they run contra to the "p4k-ication" narrative, others appeared multiple times on the prior list, and others are simply egregious absences.
- Animal Collective- Aphex Twin- Ariana Grande- Arthur Russell- Autechre- Basement Jaxx- Beach House- Boards of Canada- Boredoms- Buffalo Springfield- Burial- Captain Beefheart- Chance the Rapper- Cheap Trick- Clipse- Duke Ellington- Duran Duran- Dwight Yoakam- Emmylou Harris- EPMD- Eric Clapton- Eric Dolphy- Fugazi- Garth Brooks- Gas- George Jones- George Strait- Gram Parsons- Grimes- Guided By Voices- Hank Mobley- Jackson Browne- Jane's Addiction- Joanna Newsom- João Gilberto- Justin Timberlake- Kamasi Washington- King Crimson- Modest Mouse- Mott the Hoople- Nick Cave- Os Mutantes- Pharoah Sanders- Philip Glass- Roger Miller- Serge Gainsbourg- Sigur Rós- Slayer- Slint- Spoon- St. Vincent- Stan Getz- Stars Of The Lid- Steve Reich- Sufjan Stevens- Sun Ra- Talk Talk- Tammy Wynette- Terry Riley- The Flaming Lips- The Jesus and Mary Chain- The Knife- The Mamas and the Papas- The Mothers of Invention- The National- The Postal Service- Thelonious Monk- Townes Van Zandt- Waylon Jennings- XTC- Yoko Ono
― Indexed, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 15:23 (four years ago) link
I was complaining about compilation-friendly artists getting overlooked, but when I skimmed the lowest 50, I noticed a Supremes compilation (perfect example). So maybe I'm wrong about that.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 15:46 (four years ago) link
four tops' reach out is #429, amy's back to black is #31 - make it make sense
― i got a homogenic björk wine farmer permabanned (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 15:48 (four years ago) link
I actually like the ridiculousness of not segregating things into genres and the tokenism that results. Makes ya ~think~. I mean obv this list is horrible but it's def a glimpse into what happens when consensus is employed and I find it interesting in a individual psychology meets group dynamics experiment sort of way
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 16:02 (four years ago) link
Top-ranking albums on Pitchfork's Best of the 2010s list that did not make the RS list:
11. Grimes - Art Angels (2015)16. Joanna Newsom - Have One on Me (2010)17. Sufjan Stevens - Carrie & Lowell (2015)20. DJ Rashad - Double Cup (2013)21. Beach House - Teen Dream (2010)22. Destroyer - Kaputt (2011)25. Jamie xx - In Colour (2015)
― jaymc, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 16:04 (four years ago) link
eric clapton is in there. layla.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 16:06 (four years ago) link
it sucks that ween will never be on one of these.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 16:10 (four years ago) link
xp true D&D but the old list had 461 Ocean Boulevard and Slowhand, too
― Indexed, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 16:18 (four years ago) link
I feel like a lot of the critiques itt aren’t getting to the core rottenness of teh new canon... like amy winehouse being ranked above the albums her album was ripping off
Or bad bunny being better than Otis Redding
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 17:09 (four years ago) link
The bad bunny thing makes me feel like I was really right abt the sketchiness of his appeal ... like Future didn’t make the list but Bad Bunny does??? He’s like 2010s rap, but in Spanish, is ranked one over Otis Redding and 2010s rap he is emulating doesn’t make the list at all
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 17:11 (four years ago) link
80% of these attempts to canonize 2005-present will not age well.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 17:29 (four years ago) link
Bad Bunny is like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqKG0HEPoEw
― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:04 (four years ago) link
xp are there any contemporaneous decade lists that stick out as getting it roughly right given 20+ years to age?
― Indexed, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:30 (four years ago) link
Interpol is a surprise given the presence of YYYs and Strokes i guess. No Suede despite Blur, Pulp and Oasis, another eyebrow-raiser for the Indie Kids.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:32 (four years ago) link
Suede has a much lower profile in the U.S. than those other three.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:33 (four years ago) link
Was just about to say.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:34 (four years ago) link
The Stone Roses missed the top 10, inexplicably.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:42 (four years ago) link
no gaz coombes
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:48 (four years ago) link
Suede's profile lower than Pulp's? I just asssumed they were about the same but am prepared to believe otherwise. Poor old Suede.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 18:59 (four years ago) link
Suede tried so damn hard to break here, but I think their timing was just a little off in terms of coming through, not helped by how Sony handled them -- the big 1993 push made them counterintuitive for alt radio, the big reattempt in 97 after Coming Up was a massive UK smash in 1996 was choppy.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:02 (four years ago) link
ultimately it seems like critiquing lists is like trying to think of ways to tweak U.S. foreign policy and not recognizing the whole enterprise is rotten
lists are bad
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:07 (four years ago) link
50 Best '50 Best Albums of All Time' Lists of All Time
― Wessonality Crisis (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:08 (four years ago) link
50 Best '50 Best "50 Best Albums of All Time" Lists of all Time' Lists of All Time
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:10 (four years ago) link
It's like the human centipede of music criticism.
― Wessonality Crisis (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:12 (four years ago) link
Music criticism is a sphere whose exact centre is any one of its 50 Best Albums of All Time lists and whose circumference is inaccessible.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link
who is "Suede"? are you guys talking about The London Suede?
― na (NA), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:23 (four years ago) link
there's no perfect "end of decade" canon but the widely read 80s and 90s ones were not this bad.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:29 (four years ago) link
xpost Yes
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:35 (four years ago) link
So named because there were literally dozens of Suedes popping up all over England at the time (the Bristol Suede were my personal favorite).
― Wessonality Crisis (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:42 (four years ago) link
I've sat with this for a day. I honestly think picking apart individual choices and rankings is not seeing the forest for the trees.
The 2003 and 2012 lists were deeply sexist and deeply racist, but WERE attempts at canon building and path-lighting. The 2020 list corrects a lot of those mistakes, but is more like an open-tent free-for-all.
RS has sacrificed some amount of "editorial intent" to basically show "the zeitgeist." It's one you could already see in Pitchfork, the NPR list and RYM. Whether you think that's good or bad is up to you, but it's certainly DIFFERENT than how these things were
I think we can all agree that was good and smart and a long time coming to say "maybe we don't need EIGHT Springsteen albums and four Smiths albums on here and all this Mott the Fucking Hoople if it means we can include more rap and R&B and women. But actively deleting entire catalogs from the canon for modern poptimism really does nothing but create a mirror to the internet.
Like taking off the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music – an absolute indisputable bedrock exercise for American music! – to make room for Shania Twain and Jason Isbell does no one any favors. You're no longer teaching a canon and a history, you're repeating Twitter opinions. It's like replacing the Sight and Sound list with imdb.
It's poptimism, for sure. And people like what they like. But poptimism means actively deleting Professor Longhair, Jackie Wilson, Bobby "Blue" Bland, Little Walter, John Lee Hooker, the Drifters and Albert King from your canon to make room for Kid Cudi and Tame Impala.
― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:50 (four years ago) link
In a sense it’s the most accurate version they’ve ever published, but you lose a lot with that transition
― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 19:53 (four years ago) link
I don't think dropping older stuff in favor of newer stuff is necessarily "poptimism," it's just an acknowledgement that if you repeat this exercise every 8-9 years and the list doesn't change, why bother?
― Scam Likely (morrisp), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:20 (four years ago) link
if you repeat this exercise every 8-9 years and the list doesn't change, why bother?
Well, I mean, since you asked ...
― Get the point? Good, let's dance with nunchaku. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:21 (four years ago) link
I don't love the list, but I do think it's cool that they're including stuff from as recently as 2019. I also don't think anyone needs to be told by a RS list to listen to the Harry Smith anthology.
― Scam Likely (morrisp), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:30 (four years ago) link
i also don't think anyone needs to be told by a RS to listen to Harry Styles
― i got a homogenic björk wine farmer permabanned (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:37 (four years ago) link
harry styles > harry smith, it's science
"Like taking off the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music – an absolute indisputable bedrock exercise for American music! – to make room for Shania Twain and Jason Isbell does no one any favors. You're no longer teaching a canon and a history, you're repeating Twitter opinions."
Is this how poptimism would operate in a list like this?
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:38 (four years ago) link
But now you're just "picking apart individual choices," which Whiney said is missing the forest for the trees (notice he didn't cite Rihanna or Kendrick in his examples).
― Scam Likely (morrisp), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:39 (four years ago) link
not saying it's poptimism, saying that it sucks
― i got a homogenic björk wine farmer permabanned (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:40 (four years ago) link
btw, im pretty sure the first place i'd ever heard about the harry smith anthology is from the 2003 rs 500 list.
― i got a homogenic björk wine farmer permabanned (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:42 (four years ago) link
No one wants to delete catalogs. But please I'm begging you don't replace Pink Floyd with Radiohead albums just place it all at 400 max!
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 20:42 (four years ago) link
Smash the PMRC (lol)
https://pitchfork.com/news/rolling-stone-billboard-vibe-more-to-operate-under-new-joint-venture-pmrc/
― Scam Likely (morrisp), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:21 (four years ago) link
also don't think anyone needs to be told by a RS list to listen to the Harry Smith anthology.
― Scam Likely (morrisp), Wednesday, September 23, 2020 3:30 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
I kind of feel like I do need that lol...? Who else is telling me about it in 2020
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:46 (four years ago) link
the marvel cinematic universe-like cultural hegemony of pre war blues and folk gets pretty tiresome tbh
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:49 (four years ago) link
if people on twitter could shut the fuck up about dock boggs for five minutes that would be great
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:50 (four years ago) link