gonna listen to this in the car on the way to tennis
― the "holy..." bimble (k3vin k.), Friday, 10 July 2009 00:30 (fifteen years ago) link
"Livin' a Lie" is still the obvious winner here; it cuts deepest.
― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 July 2009 01:20 (fifteen years ago) link
hmm..."she needs my love" over "fast car"? i can hear that. i really wish there was a single mix for "fast car". the fade into nikki is one of my favourite things about the album, but i like the song enough that sometimes i want ot listen to it on its own, and there's no sense of finality EVER. *sigh*
― MTLiens (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 10 July 2009 01:25 (fifteen years ago) link
this album never clicked 4 me as much as crew here raved abt it but recently have gotten big into 'she needs my love' its srsly been stuck in my head 4 the past 2 days
― johnny crunch, Friday, 10 July 2009 02:15 (fifteen years ago) link
also its weird 2 say never clicked 4 me and yet i do love songs 1-3 & livin a lie
― johnny crunch, Friday, 10 July 2009 02:17 (fifteen years ago) link
"Ditch That"
― da croupier, Friday, 10 July 2009 02:25 (fifteen years ago) link
Though I could have easily gone with "Falsetto," "Nikki," etc. Not sure "I can't tell nobody how we is! OOOOOH!" necessarily "cuts deepest."
― da croupier, Friday, 10 July 2009 02:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Side, side, oh no inside, side, side oh no
― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 July 2009 02:31 (fifteen years ago) link
RIHANNA BABYDREAM BABYWhat on this earth will we DO
― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 July 2009 02:32 (fifteen years ago) link
― MTLiens (Alex in Montreal), Thursday, July 9, 2009 9:25 PM (Yesterday)
yeah i fuckin love right when nikki starts, it's like whoa shit just got real
― the "holy..." bimble (k3vin k.), Friday, 10 July 2009 05:42 (fifteen years ago) link
"livin a lie" is such an afterthought for me cuz it's so far back on the album but when i play this through i always remember how good the song is - "nikki" was one of the songs that's awesomeness hit me very late, but it's one of the most dramatic things he's ever written esp when it kicks into "and she loves me back" *string pulses*
― ruffalo stance (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 06:02 (fifteen years ago) link
"she needs my love" has a dope beat and that pretty great rap but it's juuust on the second level imo, maybe not tho - i love the rush in of the chorus
― ruffalo stance (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 06:04 (fifteen years ago) link
"playin in her hair" is the best playful, club song on the album - you can see how "take u home 2 my mama" was borne out of it but of course "playin in her hair" is way better
also it birthed A-T-L-A-N-T-A-G-A IS WHERE IS STAY
― ruffalo stance (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 06:06 (fifteen years ago) link
eh there should be no comma splice b/w "playful club song"
she keeps those ch-ch-chewin on her asshole, i'm all up on her ass tho, runnin it like a cash drawer
― ruffalo stance (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 06:08 (fifteen years ago) link
those thongs** >:(
well "purple kisses" was def begat by j. holiday's "bed" but yeah you can def trace shit out from l/h to things on lvm and e red
― ruffalo stance (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 06:18 (fifteen years ago) link
What's the reason for this poll lasting seven months?
― Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 10 July 2009 07:49 (fifteen years ago) link
accident
― ruffalo stance (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 07:51 (fifteen years ago) link
Ah ok. I took to this album instantly by which I mean "Shawty Is da Sh*!" is one of the most deeply eccentric ballads (I guess you'd call it) I've ever heard. But I still can't get beyond being merely impressed with the second one. Even here, the album moves from intense love to intense like with "Playin' In Her Hair." And "Mama" is flat-out godawful.
Easily "Shawty Is da Sh*!" for me. His harmonies with himself sound like Thelonious Monk piano clusters and there's like, what, five different melodies in four minutes.
Still not sure how to position this album in relation to its Album of the Decade contender, Year of the Gentleman. Yet again, it boils down to that high points vs. consistency thing with the latter an easier overall listen but lacking something as epochal as "Shawty Is da Sh*!"
― Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 10 July 2009 08:13 (fifteen years ago) link
ah man idk, i feel almost completely opposite about the two albums - i think ne-yo's gets really mushy and samey at the end but has 3 of the strongest r&b singles of the past few years whereas dream's is the better, more consistent and enjoyable album
― ruffalo stance (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 08:19 (fifteen years ago) link
"Mama" is amazing!! That bit where the dying android whispers "I've been thinking of you/always thinking of you" totally slays me.
I feel like Love vs Money suffers slightly for the lack of a similarly mushy ballad.
― Tim F, Friday, 10 July 2009 09:18 (fifteen years ago) link
the main reason why LvM isn't quite as good as L/H is that the production isn't as colorful
― cank sunny ade (The Reverend), Friday, 10 July 2009 09:21 (fifteen years ago) link
i think there's some truth in that yeah
― love/cank (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 July 2009 09:23 (fifteen years ago) link
"Livin' a Lie" is great but it doesn't really fit the mood of the album I think; I'm glad it and "Mama" come at the end.
The Rev otm about the production, he switches gears so many times on this album but it's so seamless.
― I hurt your arm and now I want to dress your arm, please (dyao), Friday, 10 July 2009 11:26 (fifteen years ago) link
I hum "Fast Car" at least three times a week.
― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 July 2009 11:57 (fifteen years ago) link
i know i'm way way in the minority here but i definitely like the 2nd album more than this one. still waiting for one of these songs to grab me like "Fast Car" did on the first listen.
― hop up out the shed, turn my scag on (some dude), Friday, 10 July 2009 13:03 (fifteen years ago) link
i way prefer LvM too, even without the "concept" a lot of its individual tracks feel like more compelling versions of L/H tracks - like 'luv songs' and 'falsetto' vs 'sweat it out' and 'put it down' isn't even a concept. then again i think i like the 1st half of LvM more than most (tho agree that the 2nd half is where the real O_O stuff is)
― lex pretend, Friday, 10 July 2009 13:39 (fifteen years ago) link
i think i voted 'nikki' anyway
― lex pretend, Friday, 10 July 2009 13:40 (fifteen years ago) link
'mama' is great sorry losers
― zzz (deej), Friday, 10 July 2009 13:43 (fifteen years ago) link
i think ne-yo's gets really mushy and samey at the end but has 3 of the strongest r&b singles of the past few years
So wait. Which are the three?
― Kevin John Bozelka, Monday, 20 July 2009 04:45 (fifteen years ago) link
man "fast car" through "purple kisses" are all such classics and for that stretch alone this might be better than the new one. the first two songs are great too but such outliers, can't really get with "ditch that"
― k3vin k., Monday, 20 July 2009 04:49 (fifteen years ago) link
i love ditch that, but after deliberating i think my answer is falsetto.
― north sea jazz dit weekend (call all destroyer), Monday, 20 July 2009 04:50 (fifteen years ago) link
brilliant as it is, this is not better than love vs. money. the answer is still "nikki," btw.
― amateurs write for recognition. professionals write for an audience (Tape Store), Monday, 20 July 2009 04:59 (fifteen years ago) link
And why exactly are they livin' a lie?
― Kevin John Bozelka, Monday, 20 July 2009 05:10 (fifteen years ago) link
(almost) every song is this album is amazing, but how could it not be I Luv Your Girl? am i alone in this?
― een, Monday, 20 July 2009 06:01 (fifteen years ago) link
i voted "Shawty Is da Sh*!" but i don't know the whole album that well, TBH.
― ILL WITH THE COMPOSITION (Beatrix Kiddo), Monday, 20 July 2009 15:24 (fifteen years ago) link
― hop up out the shed, turn my scag on (some dude), Friday, July 10, 2009 9:03 AM (1 month ago)
think i'm with you now - "fast car" is grrreat but "purple kisses" is my favorite
― the fleet bon fox jumps iver the blank dog (k3vin k.), Monday, 7 September 2009 00:27 (fifteen years ago) link
man every time ppl say r&b reached its peak in 03 or whatever i wanna point out that this and New Amerykah came out in 08
― the fleet bon fox jumps iver the blank dog (k3vin k.), Monday, 7 September 2009 00:28 (fifteen years ago) link
and yes just to beat deej to it - this was officially released in december 2007 but it's a 2008 album to me
― the fleet bon fox jumps iver the blank dog (k3vin k.), Monday, 7 September 2009 00:36 (fifteen years ago) link
i voted for it in my album list for 08 ...
― butthurt (deej), Monday, 7 September 2009 01:00 (fifteen years ago) link
I think my 4 favorite albums of 08 were all r&b (those two + foreign exchange + solange) + people who say that are mostly dbags who don't normally follow r&b who started listening to it for a couple years because of some trendy popism thing so balls to them
― flowers for algernod (The Reverend), Monday, 7 September 2009 05:39 (fifteen years ago) link
Haven't heard the Foreign Exhange album, but I agree that L vs M, L/H, and the Solange album were three of the best of 2008.For me it's a toss-up between "Shawty Is Da Sh*!" and "Nikki"
― Dan S, Monday, 7 September 2009 07:05 (fifteen years ago) link
people who say that are mostly dbags who don't normally follow r&b who started listening to it for a couple years because of some trendy popism thing so balls to them
yeah the r&b "boom" - well, the boom in music crits listening to r&b - was really fuelled by appreciation of the production and the auteur status of timbaland and the neptunes. but a ton of people never really cared about r&b as a genre - even in 2001 i remember reviews of aaliyah basically saying "great singles, but ew ballads" - and for them, r&b judgment boiled down to "cool sounds: y/n?"
i mean, obviously their problem for being idiots! but unlike, say, radio pop, i don't feel that r&b ever really dropped off since 2003 or whenever.
― lex pretend, Monday, 7 September 2009 07:43 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah any r&b "boom" that took place is completely crit-centric, which is basically to say, who gives a damn. As far as "ew ballads" goes, I completely feel free to disregard anyone's opinion if they want to speak on r&b but are averse to ballads.
xp Might as well take another chance to stump for the FE album. Super-intimate, with lots of duet vocals, subtle yet memorable songwriting, lyrics that kind of take a love-realism angle, some time-signature trickery, very precise and rich high-tech-sounding production. Sounds kind of like a cross between an Air and Aaliyah album, although it's mostly anchored around Phonte's baritone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCXNaV7CKig&feature=fvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GplxJW8ez-w
― flowers for algernod (The Reverend), Monday, 7 September 2009 08:29 (fifteen years ago) link
I dunno, I think it's pretty easy to over-estimate the extent to which popular discourse reduces R&B to a kind of "cool sounds" producer fetishism exercise.
All of the people I know who typify that intense engagement with R&B circa 2002-2004 followed by rapid drop-off actually missed Timbaland mark one almost completely, their reference points are more like "Crazy In Love", the first JT album, "Work It", "1 Thing"... not "We Need A Resolution", "Bills Bills Bills", "Caught Out There", "Try Again" et. al.
I think what was going on during that period was that R&B as a genre and R&B as a pop crossover phenemenon and R&B as something written about by critics all coalesced into a basically unanimous chorus line regarding what the music should be, which if anything isn't cool sounds at all so much as hyper-sexualised modern funk - this is what unites the disparate approaches of The Neptunes, Rich Harrison and Timbaland circa 2002 (it's telling that for this particular crowd Under Construction is very much the Missy album).
I think that there's a very broad swathe of middle-class white urbanites for whom this was the perfect incarnation of R&B to wholeheartedly embrace: big catchy songs splashed all over the radio, sung by recognisable stars, while drawing on a respectable and (importantly) "authentic" canon of black soul/popular music (James Brown, Jackson 5/MJ, Sly, the right Prince), and joy-juiced with satisfyingly raunchy modern production. At all the house parties I went to in this era "Get Busy" and "Baby Boy" were sandwiched in between "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough" and "Sex Machine".
Yes, the whole critical engagement with Timbaland/The Neptunes etc. as auteurs fed into this, but ultimately the people who actually were writing about R&B for broadsheets are still writing about R&B for broadsheets, only now The-Dream is the auteur they write about. The trickle down didn't quite work out like that: all my friends and acquaintances in this category knew about The Neptunes (because of Pharrell and the unmistakeable sound of their tracks) but didn't really know who Timbaland was.
So what happened? Well, the successive sonic incarnations of R&B simply haven't appealed to that kind of audience in the same way: crunk was too harsh and aggro sounding ("Yeah" aside) and R&B's subsequent lurch towards the eighties (ice cream cake city in the clouds synth arrangements, general trebliness, the wrong Prince) and dance music (4X4 beats), while not disliked by this audience (they'll embrace crossovers like "The Way I Are") simply doesn't feed into their ideas about what R&B should be, so they have little interest in investing in it as a genre rather than as the occasional origin of massive pop hits they get into. But yeah, stuff like "Forever" seems to strike this crowd as cheesy in a way that "Rock Your Body" didn't.
What recent stuff does this audience love? "Single Ladies" and "Umbrella". No woah modern production there, but it helps that they're big singalong songs by recognisable crossover stars and using breakbeats.
― Tim F, Monday, 7 September 2009 09:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Also it's worth pointing out that at the beginning of this decade a lot of the big R&B releases actually did tend to have fairly poor ballads, or at least the difference between the quality of the majority of the uptempo tracks and the quality of the majority of the ballads was marked - see The Writing's On The Wall and Fanmail and Survivor and Fear of Flying and Full Moon (though I adore the cheese-tastic "WOW" on that one). People who think these albums tend to fall down in the balladry department aren't necessarily blinkered.
Aaliyah was an exception to this rule, sure, but then in some ways it's an easy exception - all of the ballads on that album had high-tech production anyway, so it's not as if liking the ballads on it would have been a particularly brave move. Pink's first album is a better case I think: the three ballads on there are conservatively produced but all fabulous.
Nowadays I think it's an impossible distinction to draw, but I also think that the quality of R&B ballads generally went up at some point in the mid-00s.
― Tim F, Monday, 7 September 2009 10:08 (fifteen years ago) link
I think Lex is mostly having a pop at Reynolds plus acolytes rather than the sort of audience you're talking about, Tim, but yeah I'd agree with your take on things.
I spent much of the night in the pub on Saturday attempting to wind Lex up by taking a variety of inflammatory critical positions that I don't really believe. But the one thing I do kinda agree with is that for all this talk about the 00s being the era of the super-producer, those producers have been lucky to come along in an era of widescreen technicolor big global brand POP STARS - way way more of them than in the 90s.
A number of commercially underwhelming Timba/Neptunes/Dream projects (Elektric Red being the most recent) show that cool noises alone don't get you very far without the right frontperson. I suppose that's why Beyonce ended up with the massive lengthy career and, say, Tweet didn't.
― Tuncay Stryder (Matt DC), Monday, 7 September 2009 10:17 (fifteen years ago) link
I think you're right.
I just don't think there are that many of those Reynolds plus acolytes at the end of the day (also Reynolds put me onto Mya's "It's All About Me" way back when, one of the most gorgeous glutinous R&B ballads ever!).
I should probably shift back my "ballads suddenly improving" development to, I dunno, maybe 2003. I think one thing that changed is that whereas before artists or their handlers seemed to want to balance risk-taking club tracks with more familiar/"safe" songwriting on the ballads, at some point artists started coming out with quite risky, oddball ballads... everything got a lot more talky and idiosyncratic. Look at "We Belong Together".
In this regard, arguably "Burn" was more important to the development of R&B this decade than "Yeah" was.
And certainly R Kelly was a massive influence on everything.
― Tim F, Monday, 7 September 2009 10:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Ha ha everyone I can think of who is actually like Lex's complaint ended up being into dubstep, Erykah Badu and Jay Dilla, maybe that's why they aren't checking for Electrik Red etc.
― Tim F, Monday, 7 September 2009 10:29 (fifteen years ago) link
I hadn't even realized you were different posters til now.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 01:27 (thirteen years ago) link
where's "ol"
― some dude, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 01:30 (thirteen years ago) link
'playin' in her hair' followed by 'purple kisses' is his pinnacle
― prolego, Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:23 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark
i could buy this
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 14 September 2011 01:33 (thirteen years ago) link
purple kissesfast carshe needs my loveluv songsfalsettoshawty is da shit!playin in her hairmamalivin a lienikkiI luv your girlditch that...
― k3vin k., Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:27 PM (seven years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
besides the first two and the last one, that's a reallll fluid ranking
― k3vin k., Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:28 PM (seven years ago)
i think i stand by this
― k3vin k., Saturday, 14 January 2017 23:58 (seven years ago) link
― k3vin k., Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:27 PM (3 months ago)
bump "she needs my love" down a couple, slide "shawty is the shit" above "falsetto". theyre all so close besides "ditch that..." tho for me
ha xp
― vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:05 PM (six years ago
actually this
― k3vin k., Sunday, 15 January 2017 00:00 (seven years ago) link
not sure if i've listened to this album this decade
― r|t|c, Sunday, 15 January 2017 00:15 (seven years ago) link
hey it's been 5 years cut me a little slack
― k3vin k., Sunday, 15 January 2017 00:16 (seven years ago) link
this opinion holds up
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 15 January 2017 00:22 (seven years ago) link
tbh i considered doing so recently after seeing the dance troupe that deej recently posted on rolling raps did a routine to 'i luv your girl'... but then i looked at it and i could still play all the songs in my head just fine
― r|t|c, Sunday, 15 January 2017 00:23 (seven years ago) link
'livin a lie' is sounding great in my head right now. alfred always was right on that one
― r|t|c, Sunday, 15 January 2017 00:25 (seven years ago) link
Livin a Lie seems poignant now, like remember when r&b playing with housey beats seemed fun?
― Tim F, Sunday, 15 January 2017 00:55 (seven years ago) link
This may seem like heresy, but I could never get into this one. Probably because I heard the second LP first, and then when I came back to LP 1 it just seemed a bit too flat and not quite self-aware enough.
― Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 15 January 2017 04:21 (seven years ago) link
i always felt like that too, like i can't not be thinking 'i cd be listenin to love vs money'. i love fast car tho
― schlump, Sunday, 15 January 2017 04:57 (seven years ago) link
that is wrong, just fyi
― horseshoe, Sunday, 15 January 2017 13:32 (seven years ago) link
― r|t|c, Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:25 PM (
https://m.popkey.co/d86114/qxy0g.gif
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 15 January 2017 13:37 (seven years ago) link
i luv your girl shd be #1 i now think
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 15 January 2017 14:08 (seven years ago) link
falsetto is also just a perfect song
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 15 January 2017 16:48 (seven years ago) link
xpost "and I pray that y'all ain't serious/cos seriously, she's on my dick" still a good zing
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 15 January 2017 20:02 (seven years ago) link
ty also sry horseshoe, i kno. when i was younger i didn't like tomatoes + i knew that was wrong also
― schlump, Sunday, 15 January 2017 20:19 (seven years ago) link