grime in 2004

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this might be cos ive overplayed that run the road comp and think grime MCs arent as good at making songs as they are at just rhyming over dubs.

DVD (dickvandyke), Thursday, 21 October 2004 15:34 (nineteen years ago) link

this might be cos ive overplayed that run the road comp and think grime MCs arent as good at making songs as they are at just rhyming over dubs.

this is my theory. grime just doesnt sound good on individual tracks/albums as bits of radio shows/raves. they shoudl release a "best of de ja" or something. that would be better than all these mixtapes.

ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 21 October 2004 15:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I totally disagree on this. There's been plenty of "songs" with proper choruses and shit since like 2002 that outweigh the Lord Of The Decks style freestyles and vocal dubs. A best of deja would be amazing still. DVD, you're always banging on about the poor state of garage mcing but what MCs are you talking about exactly, just out of interest? Or what mcs do you think are good lyricists?

SE15, Thursday, 21 October 2004 15:54 (nineteen years ago) link

But yeah i guess the mixtape thing is a bit pointless if you have radio access and are prepared to wade through all the funky house every station seems to be playin these days.

SE15, Thursday, 21 October 2004 16:00 (nineteen years ago) link

ambrose OTM. I listen to Ruff Sqwad and Roll Deep radio sessions far more than I do yer Lord of the Decks or Boy In Da Cornerses. Having said that - LOTD3! Coming soon!

The only grime MC that I can take over straight hip hop is J2k. Heat In The Streets 2 is really quite good for this! Actually, maybe J2K is just a UKHH MC clinging to the COATTAILS of grime....

adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 21 October 2004 16:03 (nineteen years ago) link

But Adam, Kano over "What We Do"!!!!

SE15, Thursday, 21 October 2004 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link

To my shame, I still haven't heard that. Anyone sharing it?

adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 21 October 2004 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Or gmailing it????

adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 21 October 2004 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

some MCs i think are good off the top of my head are dizzee, wiley, roll deep, kano, d double e, dirty doogz (on a good day).....

that said, i liked most of lord of the decks 2, thought it was great, and a lot more vital sounding than run the road. im sorry to keep harping on about RTR, but im just a little bit let down by it, thats all.

the thing is though, i liked kano a lot on boys luv girls, and part of that was because he was rhyming all around the beat, and the beat was doing weird things, rather than sticking to one pattern for the whole song like on ps and qs. i like the latter song a lot, but its a bit underwhelming after hearing him on stuff like ice rink or the NASTY crew freestyles ive got. part of this i think is that when it comes to making proper grime songs these days, it seems that theyre making the beats more spacious and easier to rhyme over, which in my view, is taking away from one of the best things about grime, the amazing headfucking beats. i mean, yeah i like fwd riddim, but the rapping on there is pretty shit, sad to say. grime MCs are amazing at riding a rhythm and darting in and out of the beat, and all over the place but theyre not that hot at combining that with writing songs. when it comes to that, they seem to try and make it simpler or something (and this is where their lack of depth comes into harsh focus).... or maybe thats just the vibe in the scene at the moment, theyre all so desperate to blow, that theyre trying to make it less 'noisy'. fuck that though, the noise is whats so good about grime.

i mean, even on the slow hip hop tempo tracks on showtime, dizzee is racing around the beat, still.

again, i should say this might just be my own bias towards extremity and a dislike for middle of the road-ness. then again, i think wileys album was severely underrated and that wasnt extreme as such, the beats were still animated and ultra-syncopated.

hope this doesnt read like a incoherent blog!

DVD (dickvandyke), Thursday, 21 October 2004 17:25 (nineteen years ago) link

radio mixes are definitely better than vocal tracks and mixtapes. Grime crews should be releasing mixes like The Nasty Show, not mixtapes!

Keith McD, Friday, 22 October 2004 04:36 (nineteen years ago) link

word to keith mcd!

DVD (dickvandyke), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:07 (nineteen years ago) link

DVD: all you seem to be saying over and over for about two weeks is, try as you might, in general you don't like grime MCs. why don't you just stop trying? no one is making you like them!

martin (martin), Friday, 22 October 2004 11:14 (nineteen years ago) link

hahaha, i know, its quite amazing isnt it?! ive been blabbing on about the same ol shit post after post! its just that i think ive become sort of a grime obsessive, picking up everything i can, hearing everything possible, reading about it, etc etc. im trying to get into the genre really a lot. ive just been dissapointed with some of the stuff ive heard, thats all. i should probably post more about the stuff i have really liked, like that new b-live thing, the wonder and kano, the sticky 12, trapped, even the creeper mixtape. i will say that grime is a lot more diverse than i first thought, and its usually best when its a hybrid rather than sticking to one of the influences in that hybrid. i wouldnt say i dislike grime MCs, i like wiley, kano, dizzee, roll deep, d double e, a like lots of people. but its like every scene isnt it, not everyone is going to be brilliant.

DVD (dickvandyke), Friday, 22 October 2004 11:22 (nineteen years ago) link

"Actually, maybe J2K is just a UKHH MC clinging to the COATTAILS of grime.... "

OTM.

DVD (dickvandyke), Friday, 22 October 2004 11:47 (nineteen years ago) link

OK cool. you should try dubstep if you like mad beats but want a change from MCing tho...

martin (martin), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:13 (nineteen years ago) link

DVD have you heard The Nasty Show? It was this amazing radio mix that the Nasty Crew did early last year, was supposed to be released but I'm not sure whether that ever happened. I still think it's the greatest single thing to ever come out of grime; from your recent posts I think you'd adore it.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:16 (nineteen years ago) link

it was never to be released, it was just done (before Jammer & D double E left) by Soul 2 Streets and NASTY to generate some hype. it also predated the whole US-style mixtape fashion...

martin (martin), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:29 (nineteen years ago) link

i dont necesarily want mad beats, i mean, i didnt think the beats on the wiley album were that mad per se, but they seemed more inventive, for lack of a better word. more energtic, like he was forced to adapt to the frenetic beats, rather than a case of him wondering how MCing might fit on top while making them. but thank for the tips, guys. will hopefully stumble on the nasty show somewhere.

DVD (dickvandyke), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:35 (nineteen years ago) link

"it was never to be released"

Actually Martin I don't know how true this is but I read on RWD or somewhere late last year that they were going to belatedly release a CD of it.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:40 (nineteen years ago) link

you can't release a CD like that without licencing all the tracks, paying the MCs, the DJs, promoting it, signing contracts blah blah blah. trust me, i spoke to the guy who organised it at the time, and the intent then was to create a promo thing just to generate hype around NASTY...

martin (martin), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:50 (nineteen years ago) link

... unless you just do a specialist road/bootleg ting like the Aim High/Creaper etc mixtapes do. but Soul 2 Streets wouldn't be silly enough to put it in HMV without doing it legit, i'm sure.

martin (martin), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:53 (nineteen years ago) link

i read in deuce that it was going to be released as a cd :-)

does this mean that people have a better-quality copy of it than that shitty 32kbps or whatever real audio thing that i've got?

toby (tsg20), Friday, 22 October 2004 14:05 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah it was available as a promo CD.
dont believe what you read in deuce, i made it all up :)

martin (martin), Friday, 22 October 2004 14:42 (nineteen years ago) link

btw the Logan Sama free mix CD is in Uptown right now. the end of it goes beef tastic, including Wiley's full take on how Dizzee got stabbed...

martin (martin), Friday, 22 October 2004 15:25 (nineteen years ago) link

=0

adam. (nordicskilla), Friday, 22 October 2004 15:35 (nineteen years ago) link

my copy of lord of the mic finally arrived, and i have a couple of questions:

it seems like the order of lethal and wiley's diss tracks should be reversed, right? seem's like wileys "MY girls are young? what about YOUR girl?" is a response to the gary glitter comment...

aww, stryda's in his awkward phase. anyway shouldn't he be in school somewhere? is he? i don't care if he is a ninja. hit the books!

Lukas (lukas), Friday, 22 October 2004 16:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Okay so I've got this Rinse FM set of unknown origin. I think it's from about March maybe, it's got Crazy Titch, Taliban Trim, Flo Dan, Wiley, Tinchey Strider, Kano and a few others on it, and starts off with Davinche's "Leave Me Alone". Anyone know it?

Anyways apart from being insanely good as a whole, there's this awesome 8-bar in it which Flo Dan freestyles over - wedged between "Ground Zero" and the Wonder 8-bar Dizzee uses on "Respect Me". It's got this hyper-syncopated eastern groove, somewhere between Target and Zed Bias circa 01/02, but still really grime. A track ID would be most appreciated.

Also Flo Dan is quite good here, despite what Govt Names might say.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 13:29 (nineteen years ago) link

post up an MP3 of the track (not the whole set) and we can have a go at IDing the track...

martin (martin), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 14:51 (nineteen years ago) link

DJ Glamma is playing old Jammer dubs from FIVE years ago on Rinse right now and they're grime!

martin (martin), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:57 (nineteen years ago) link

im givng up trying to listen to all the pirates all the time.....

splooge (thesplooge), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 21:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Martin i have neither the teknology nor the server space. I'll try to work it out though.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

the remix to kano's ps and qs is great, better than the original in my humble opinion.

splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 09:06 (nineteen years ago) link

I think if we all resolved to upload every big tune we talked about here, I'd be able to hear this Ps and Qs remix and the world would be better for it. So help me help you to help me.

Rollie Pemberton (Rollie Pemberton), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 13:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Those Jammer dubs Glamma was playing are cool. He was using his duoble-orchestral string stabs even back then. The beats sound like he was trying to get a Wookie feel to them. The one made especially for Glamma with all the short synth pulses going off was mad. I'll try and get them up on here in RM soon.

thsmrltlsnd, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:51 (nineteen years ago) link

what about an exclusively grime g-mail tree, no large files?

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:19 (nineteen years ago) link

i get the feeling a lot of people like to keep their exclusives close to their heart and away from their file-sharing hard drives.

splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm in, Dave.

razorbladerunner@gmail.com

Rollie Pemberton (Rollie Pemberton), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

the wiley answer back on the logan sama mixtape is wicked.

titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:49 (nineteen years ago) link

inspired by all the comments and reminisces about john peel, i am going to try and get my tape of the peel session where he got eastwood and his mates to do a set, and at the end, said that he felt like he had been at the first elvis gig, or something, it was so amazing for him. its a good set too, about 90 mins long i guess. if you want it then i shoiuld be back on slsk sometime. its good just as a sort of reminder that even towards the end, peel was still making connections with new stuff, and still open minded.

ambrose (ambrose), Saturday, 30 October 2004 14:34 (nineteen years ago) link

ambrose, if theres any way you could get that on slsk, i would be amazingly grateful.

splooge (thesplooge), Saturday, 30 October 2004 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link

hmmm im gonna have to wait till next week when i get the internet, also, if i can find the tape!??! i found what i thought ws it the other night, but it cuts outi into all this (admittedly, could have been on peel) guitar zzzzz

ambrose (ambrose), Sunday, 31 October 2004 21:01 (nineteen years ago) link

oh god. i ve just heard Give U More and its wicked. didn't dizzee use the instrumental track "Hoe" released on white label in summer?
Forward Riddim is in my opinion quite dull. all the time expected that it ll unwind somehow. it really sounds very lo-fi. he probably made the track by clicking on Random button in Fruity Loops till it sounded cool. best grime track of the year? hardly.

karl76 (karl76), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link

fwd riddim is kinda shit, sad to say.

titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

it's pretty good.

adam... (nordicskilla), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Dizzee made the "wheel" riddim, early versions of which got bootlegged. this then became "give u more" after it got vocalled. he also made "Hoe" ages ago, which also has been bootlegged/refixed, many times.

martin (martin), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link

martin - you've heard the roll deep album yeah? do you know what the hell is going on with roll deep using the maisonettes' (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:16ke4jn70wav~T1) Heartache Avenue on the album? It's one of the strangest things i've heard to come out of grime. Is it going to be on the final record? I either love it or hate it. I'm still not sure despite listening to it on repeat for about 10 times.

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Monday, 8 November 2004 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link

dunno if ambrose got it up or not but i have the eastwood peel set up on the seek

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Monday, 8 November 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link

whats your username myke?

titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Monday, 8 November 2004 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link

boomnoise!zoo

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Monday, 8 November 2004 22:26 (nineteen years ago) link


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