Best Herbie Hancock (As Leader) Album Poll of 1960s/70s/80s era.

I wonder if Head Hunters sells nowadays. It's never the token jazz album in the best album ever lists in magazines like A Kind Of Blue Is

I thought Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" was the bestselling jazz album ever.

I'm fairly sure Headhunters was a much bigger seller than Time Out, but the issue is whether it gets defined as jazz or not. Among the "traditional jazz" albums I think it's either KOB or Time Out.

although I didn't see the tuomas post saying that KOB was bigger than Headhunters. But I wouldn't be surprised if KOB has surpassed Time Out by now with all the attention it gets as "greatest jazz album of all time," etc.

It is the token jazz album for many.

Time Out was the best selling jazz album for quite a while, but I think Head Hunters passed it at some point, and now KoB has passed them both. At least in the US Time Out and HH are both only single platinum, whereas KoB is triple platinum. Does anyone if there's any site which would show worldwide sales of albums?

None that I know of. Maybe DJ Martian will know.

I'd be disappointed if he didn't.
Are there any good Herbie Hancock books about?

Only one , and on Head Hunters it seems
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-Hunters-Making-Platinum-Perspectives/dp/0472114174/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197853403&sr=1-4
Bit expensive as well.

How much did "Future Shock" sell, and does it count as a jazz album?

oh i love 'maiden voyage.' and 'headhunters.' 'headhunters' was the first herbie hancock set i heard. we were on the salt flats. and a track from 'future shock' is so good, robotsinheat.com (no that's not me but the track's there).

why wouldn't future shock count?

Because it's not jazz really. Not that this makes it any better or worse, but I think calling Future Shock or Perfect Machine jazz would stretch the definition of jazz meaningless. Out of three Laswell-produced albums I think only Sound-System might have enough jazz elements to fit into some wide definition of the word.

Similarly, I'd call Lite Me Up R&B, not jazz.

Jazz is about pushing the boundaries though.

Yeah, but do you think any album someone known primarily as a jazz musician releases is automatically jazz? Perfect Machine and Lite Me Up have hardly any improvised parts, I'd say that is the minimum requirement to call something jazz.

"Tutu" is often counted as not jazz, isn't it?

Tuomas is correct I guess.

Because it's not jazz really. Not that this makes it any better or worse, but I think calling Future Shock or Perfect Machine jazz would stretch the definition of jazz meaningless.

can_o_worms.jpeg

I don't think so. Can of worms would be saying that something like Sextant or Bitches Brew or Head Hunters isn't really jazz (which is not what I think), but an album like Perfect Machine is so far removed from jazz, I don't think anyone who'd listen to it without knowing it was released under a jazz musician's name would call it that.

Someone on here would argue otherwise though, which is probably what he meant.

My mates bringing over the 1st Herbie solo cd that i havent heard.

Was the Donald Byrd - Blackbyrd album the biggest seller until Headhunters?

I am pretty sure that must have been "Time Out" by Dave Brubeck.

I'm sure I read somewhere Blackbyrd sold shitloads in the 70s. It was definitely the biggest Blue Note album ever at the time I think.

And was seen as Donald Byrd selling out by going funk and is said to be the beginning of the end for Blue Note as lots of jazz bands went funk.

'man-child' is remarkable, i feel like it's one of those HH '70s records w/a middling reputation that (much like 'sunlight' recently) should probably undergo critical rehab.

getting acquainted with speak like a child finally and what a perfect little record

yeah that's a really nice one

It's funny how these polls shake out - I'd probably pick Sextant over Headhunters too, and yet it feels wrong somehow to see Sextant get like 4x the votes of Headhunters when Headhunters is the one with *those funky jams everyone knows and loves*

Gonna go with the unpopular opinion that Head Hunters > Sextant.

Also, this

 Sunlight (1978) – Columbia	0

would not happen if this were re-polled today.

I would have voted Mwandishi, though Headhunters is also amazing.

I still haven't heard Sextant because I'm waiting to get a good copy on vinyl.

'man-child' is remarkable, i feel like it's one of those HH '70s records w/a middling reputation that (much like 'sunlight' recently) should probably undergo critical rehab.

Man-Child is stunning. I've had Sun Touch as my ringtone for years, and the number of people who've asked me: "What's that tune?" is unreal.

A mere 3 votes for Head Hunters is criminally hipsterish. We can do better as a community.

hell yes sun touch is great xp

Sometimes I think about how Herbie, while being considered one of the greats, doesn't conjure up the same mystique as Miles or Trane or Monk. I feel like it's because he seems like an affable guy and affability doesn't lend itself to mystique.

And he's still alive. I think that affects the mystique somehow, too.

Speak Like A Child is a great record, and such a beautiful, beautiful sleeve, too. Like, one of my absolute favourites. And like McCoy Tyner's Song For My Lady, that beautiful, romantic sleeve encases an absolutely blistering album.

True, but I think Wayne has a bit more mystique because he has a contemplative, introverted vibe and doesn't smile a lot

I love the title track of Speak Like a Child (and of Maiden Voyage), but the rest of the songs on the album weren't very memorable to me. I can see why he would not want to lean too heavily on the ethereal ballads, but that was where his strength lay in acoustic jazz. The most consistent records of his I've heard are the Mwandishi group.

can't get with you there, the melodies on speak like a child are crazy catchy

Empyrean Isles also terribly underrated by this poll - one of my favorite late hard bop records. Inevitable that that happens in with the binary nature of polls.

It and Head Hunters are the ones I've listened to the most. It's impossible not to love 'Cantaloupe Island'.

Speak Like a Child and The Prisoner are my two favorite of his 60s acoustic albums.

All three of the Mwandishi albums are equally brilliant, but if I had to pick one, it's Sextant for sure. That thing is a masterpiece.

Man-Child is the best of the Headhunters-era albums, but Secrets is really good, too.

One thing I love about the first Mwandishi album is that on the first track there's this tiny, barely perceptible chick-chick guitar, buried in the mix but running through the whole piece, almost a metronome, and then you look at the credits and that tiny little noise was played by noted 70s hard rock shredder Ronnie Montrose(!).

I've wondered if he was brought in to improvise a "normal" guitar part, but was wary of the key-change in the riff or the unusual time signature and figured it was safer to stick to playing a textural wah-wah part. It's not as though he were a neophyte at guitar, though.

True, but I think Wayne has a bit more mystique because he has a contemplative, introverted vibe and doesn't smile a lot

This has reminded me that I saw Wayne Shorter live in 2014. The music was extremely abstract and contemplative, as you'd expect, and Wayne was fairly taciturn throughout – but his drummer spent the whole gig grinning so manically, even during the quietest parts, that my wife and I were both convinced he was off his head on drugs!

A google image search appears to confirm that the guy does this a lot.

https://www.google.com/search?q=brian+blade&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRyf3C3svsAhXUURUIHcmNCV0Q_AUoAXoECAMQAw&biw=1362&bih=706

brian blade is the man

Man-Child is the best of the Headhunters-era albums, but Secrets is really good, too.

My wife bought a copy of this for me in maybe 2005-2006 when I was mostly trad jazz and, because it wasn't five stars in the AMG book I had, I didn't give it much play. When I came back to it a year or two ago (now huge fan of Herbie) I was like, "what was I thinking"?

this = Man-Child