XXP - It was decent, I can't say it brought any great insight but it was a good summation of the transition period, I think it could have done with being a bit more technical really.
― Maresn3st, Friday, 3 December 2021 13:41 (two years ago) link
I started watching this last night and I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. And I am not the worlds biggest fan.
― A Pile of Ants (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 3 December 2021 13:48 (two years ago) link
there’s an interview excerpt with Alex Van Halen that Dave q posted once where basically he says that the 70s close-micd, dry drum sound was largely about making it easy on the engineers.
― brimstead, Friday, 3 December 2021 15:28 (two years ago) link
He invented vaporware - that's something.
Was going to say, he's very much a Silicon Valley character.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 3 December 2021 15:29 (two years ago) link
surely Da Vinci or someone deserves the vaporware-inventor title tho
― I Am Fribbulus (Xax) (Doctor Casino), Friday, 3 December 2021 17:13 (two years ago) link
loved this whole thing, felt like part 3 was way more of a slog than the other two but whatever, the part where John and Paul sang that one song through clenched teeth was pretty funny
I still don't get any of the criticism that this is getting, it feels very magical and mundane to me, something about the whole vibe of this reminds me of the Gus Van Sant Cobain movie that I thought was hilarious (prob the only music biopic I've liked) but a lot of people hated
― Bongo Jongus, Friday, 3 December 2021 17:15 (two years ago) link
The magical mundanity tour
― war mice (hardcore dilettante), Friday, 3 December 2021 17:22 (two years ago) link
basically he says that the 70s close-micd, dry drum sound was largely about making it easy on the engineers
But were drum sounds in the '60s any great shakes either? Generally not, in my opinion. I've seen Jimmy Page credited with popularizing the notion that the mics should be pulled back from the kit, to provide a more reverberant sound on tape. (Culminating, of course, with setting Bonham up in a stone hallway.)
― Vast Halo, Friday, 3 December 2021 18:02 (two years ago) link
But were drum sounds in the '60s any great shakes either?
Motown, Stax, Dylan (particularly Highway 61), James Brown, the Impressions ("A Fool For You" especially), Hendrix' first two records, Phil Spector's productions, Shel Talmy's Kinks and Creation records, the Sonics,...and that's before we even get to Glyn Johns' engineering work on Who, Small Faces, and Rolling Stones records.
The Beatles were acutely jealous of the Motown drum sound(s), and seriously looked into recording at Stax (which, it was found, would've been insanely expensive, due to a few clauses in their EMI contract).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 3 December 2021 18:16 (two years ago) link
Vast halo, this is a little confuzzled, because 60s drums were not close-mic'd, it was usually room microphones.
Geoff Emerick almost seems to credit himself with inventing close-micing, because EMI had strict placement standards that he bravely ignored in order to get the punchy sound of mid-career Beatles. Glyn Johns is famous for a 3-mic technique.
I associate strict close-mic technique with 70s when it became economically feasible to have one mic per drum.
― tone-loki (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 December 2021 18:21 (two years ago) link
i swear lately on ilm there's this weird hoffman board thing where anything that doesn't sound like rumours is considered bad sounding or lo fi. so many 60s records have amazing sounding drums.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 3 December 2021 18:26 (two years ago) link
lots of different drums sound good
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Friday, 3 December 2021 18:34 (two years ago) link
fuck, you leave the beatles thread for three days and there's like 400 new posts
― When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Friday, 3 December 2021 18:37 (two years ago) link
xxpost even some of the earlier Beatles albums had some great drum sounds. That opening CRACK! on “Any Time At All” comes to mind
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 3 December 2021 18:59 (two years ago) link
but yeah, what Tarfumes said60’s were awash with awesome drum sounds and Hal Blaine would def like a word
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 3 December 2021 19:00 (two years ago) link
Definitely true that some of their early records had great drum sounds -- the drums on Please Please Me sound incredible (especially "Boys").
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 3 December 2021 19:03 (two years ago) link
Y'all are right, of course. I just get vexed that there are a bunch of songs from that era that I love (e.g. "Substitute") that are let down by really ineptly-recorded drums. That rarely seems to have happened any more after 1970. (Back on theme, I particularly like the sound they got for Ringo's kit on "Come Together".)
― Vast Halo, Friday, 3 December 2021 20:14 (two years ago) link
maybe its just your hearing
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 3 December 2021 20:55 (two years ago) link
― brimstead, Friday, 3 December 2021 20:57 (two years ago) link
80s gated drum sound was an overcorrection to recapture presence and atmosphere or something
― brimstead, Friday, 3 December 2021 20:58 (two years ago) link
which is why we should use drum machines if Ringo isn't available
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 December 2021 21:00 (two years ago) link
No, it's an opinion, and mine is as valid as yours
― Vast Halo, Friday, 3 December 2021 21:03 (two years ago) link
I can still eat corn if you mash it into a fine paste
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 December 2021 21:05 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG3VUXBcyt0
― Goofy the Grifter (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 December 2021 21:18 (two years ago) link
The rumors are true!
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 December 2021 21:21 (two years ago) link
And now,
Your hosts for the evening,
Two monkeys fucking.
― pplains, Friday, 3 December 2021 21:24 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Pq2cCVLpQ
― Goofy the Grifter (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 December 2021 22:44 (two years ago) link
While I think '80s gated drums came first - Phil Collins/"Abacab" was one of the first to really push drums to the fore - they definitely cohabitated with increasingly bigger sounding reverbed-out everything as the decade progressed. The huge marshmallow snares would sound so small with everything else overinflated.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 December 2021 23:21 (two years ago) link
I just get vexed that there are a bunch of songs from that era that I love (e.g. "Substitute") that are let down by really ineptly-recorded drums.And “Substitute” is far from the worst of them. The drums on A Quick One and The Who Sell Out (with an exception or two) are abominably recorded. It sounds like there may have been a single mic within no less than 20 feet of the drums.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 3 December 2021 23:34 (two years ago) link
Shel Talmy, absolutely terrible engineer/producer, same with the early Kinks stuff that sounds like shite.
― Maresn3st, Friday, 3 December 2021 23:42 (two years ago) link
Maybe you guys should tell him so on Facepalm.
― Goofy the Grifter (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 December 2021 23:44 (two years ago) link
Talmy was great. His Kinks records had far more bite and presence than most of the ‘64-‘65 Beatles or Stones records, and his Who records — the My Generation album and the two singles that preceded it, all engineered by Glyn Johns — were heavier than anything previously heard.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 4 December 2021 00:01 (two years ago) link
Have to disagree, those first few Kinks records and My Generation have always sounded bad to me.
― Maresn3st, Saturday, 4 December 2021 00:17 (two years ago) link
i swear lately on ilm there's this weird hoffman board thing where you leave the beatles thread for three days and there's like 400 new posts
― war mice (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 4 December 2021 02:32 (two years ago) link
400 postsAnd it’s the same philosophy
― Goofy the Grifter (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 4 December 2021 03:18 (two years ago) link
i mean if the Kinks & My Generation “sound bad” what is yr idea of “good sounding” records
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 4 December 2021 03:29 (two years ago) link
I'm going to side with those that think the early Who and Kinks records sound great. I mean not from the standpoint of technical proficiency, but their sloppiness and roughness is part of their appeal. I wouldn't want them to have glossy '70s studio polish.
― Lee626, Saturday, 4 December 2021 04:13 (two years ago) link
exactly! the garagey sound is the bonus byproduct and what makes this stuff cool.
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 4 December 2021 05:16 (two years ago) link
I always thought The Stones "I wanna be your man" sounded like an insane carcrash of sound, especially for its time
― Mark G, Saturday, 4 December 2021 12:50 (two years ago) link
Not as much as She Said Yeah, but yeah
― Alba, Saturday, 4 December 2021 12:54 (two years ago) link
yeah, loved this.
― Ste, Saturday, 4 December 2021 22:35 (two years ago) link
What I’m saying is…. 70s drums actually sound bad
Dear lord this take is as bad as saying Paul's beard is ugly
― octobeard, Saturday, 4 December 2021 23:53 (two years ago) link
THANK YOU
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 5 December 2021 01:25 (two years ago) link
my response to that was going to be "have you heard a single r&b record from the '70s"
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 5 December 2021 01:29 (two years ago) link
I was being facetious, it’s just funny that they did all this stuff to tame the drums and make them behave or whatever
― brimstead, Sunday, 5 December 2021 01:53 (two years ago) link
Ok I have to retract myself. Mccartney beard is a thing of beauty.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 5 December 2021 03:45 (two years ago) link
I haven’t dug into Get Back yet; waiting for a day when HD Jr & I can binge it together. In the meantime I’ve been bingeing a podcast called One Sweet Dream - their series on the breakup. It’s very long and VERY repetitive and sometimes EXTREMELY infuriating in SO many ways … but it also gets a lot right and it has rewired my thinking about the ‘68-69 period. I feel like it’s a really valuable addition to the story even though sometimes I want to leap through the speakers and shake the hosts violently. The basic methodology is to look at the Beatles through the lens of Paul & John’s relationship - a “marriage,” as both of them characterized it many times - and observe their actions & re-listen to their words & try to understand how each of them felt & how their emotional entanglement would have driven behaviours & events. Lots to pick apart in there - both good & bad analysis - and a couple of Beatle-nerd pals & I have been enjoying kicking their ideas around, trying to tease the pepper out from the flyshit. Their biggest flaw is the massive chip on their shoulder about Wenner & Lewisohn & the John stans; at least a quarter of each long episode is spent rehashing and tearing down the same tropes over and over rather than advancing their own arguments. Ultimately I wish someone would do a more rigourous job of pursuing their basic insights & building a nuanced and defensible narrative: that would be a real contribution to the scholarship. Nonetheless.
― war mice (hardcore dilettante), Sunday, 5 December 2021 17:05 (two years ago) link
"Check out this podcast that gets stuff wrong, is extremely repetitive and I want to kill the hosts."
― kurt schwitterz, Sunday, 5 December 2021 17:34 (two years ago) link
B-b-but it’s about the lads!
― Goofy the Grifter (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 December 2021 17:39 (two years ago) link
XP That's like most podcasts tho.
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 5 December 2021 18:05 (two years ago) link