What's the future of the music industry?

(I guess the author was not afraid to name names there, for whatever reason)

i remember a time when the mere mention of the name "wet leg" made all who might raise their ire quiver in fear. truly, what degradation has befallen music?

Making music shouldn’t be fun.

I also enjoyed the cameo from Caldwell and Tester, who made the best ambient album of 2020 (which is really saying something).

So bitter about Wet Leg. Maybe Dummy should consider writing music more people want to hear instead of looking for conspiracies about why they aren’t as popular as other bands.

maybe if they hadn't chosen such a terrible name

good tour diary, good band. love internecine scene policing. i like wet leg too but a band's first single having a lavish video and huge promo push is not un-candleboxish, i think it's ok to be grouchy/leery/sneery when it comes to the modern alternative rock corporate apparatus.

found this unreadable lol but good on y’all

idk didn’t feel like the writer interrogated the brilliant musings of the band enough or potentially at all. good wet leg and stereogum hit jobs i guess but i find the “making art should be miserable” mentality like capitalist stockholm syndrome. i don’t know i didn’t read it all

self-importance of ppl doin it diy is why i never talk to diy ppl end of post

The thing (to me) about the writer's Wet Leg takedown isn't so much that she hates the band or thinks that ppl only like them because they're told to (tho that does carry an amusing "narcissism of small differences" angle) - it's that she's so angry about the review (and, I guess, the band's success) that she doesn't seem to even really read or engage with it, she just (mis)reads a single line about them being "carpetbaggers" and sees red.

Btw, I downloaded a "sample" (first chapter) of a book she mentions, b/c it sounded interesting – Your Band Sucks, by a guy named Jon Fine who was in Bitch Magnet. It starts off with a well-written meditation on his childhood in a quiet, leafy NJ suburb; early attempts at music / h.s. "battles of the bands"; etc. But the sample ends right when he starts going off on how "awful" mainstream music was in the '80s – as he attempts to illustrate by listing a bunch of (IMO) actually awesome/fun (if sometimes cheesy) artists, with lines like:

Things were so bad we tried to get excited about John Fogerty's first album in like ten years, even though my chemistry textbook was more exciting and contained no writing as horrendous as the lyrics to "Centerfield."

and

During one surpassingly strange fifteen or eighteen months, the ghastly and bouncy Men at Work was the biggest band in the world.

And it's like - c'mon, man. Everyone has their lane, and you've already said this book is gonna be about how your favorite bands are Swans, Scratch Acid, Sonic Youth (etc.), so I get you're no "poptimist"... but even looking back as a middle-aged guy whose tastes have presumably broadened since adolescence, you still have these opinions(?)

otm

When I skimmed this I thought it (Dummy) was all a reference to Geoff Barrow of Portishead's recent tweet:

I’ve so had it with immensely over privileged artist and bands
Do labels not sign working class people anymore ?

Same as theatre and film It’s so fucked.

Their lack of awareness and Their assumption that we’ve all grown up the same way is astonishing

— 🏴‍☠️ Geoff Barrow 🏴‍☠️ (@jetfury) July 23, 2022

Which in turn reminded me of Clairo. I don't know Clairo, but I was reading something about the new Marcus Mumford solo album, which features Clairo, so looked up their wiki. The wiki includes this:

Following the success of "Pretty Girl", a number of social media users (specifically on discussion website Reddit) began claiming that Clairo was an "industry plant" who gained success through her father's nepotism. She denied the claims, calling them sexist. Writers for The Guardian and The Ringer also stated that her father's connections facilitated her record contract signing.

I had no idea who her father could be, but indeed, he has his own wiki entry:

Geoff Cottrill is an American marketer who formerly held top positions at Procter & Gamble, Coca-Cola, Starbucks, and Converse. He is the father of the musical artist Clairo.

And then later on:

Cottrill is the father of the musical artist Clairo. According to The New York Times, her record label signing was made possible by her father's connection to Jon Cohen, co-founder of The Fader and an executive at the publication's marketing agency, Cornerstone. His role in the launching of his daughter's professional career attracted scrutiny from some online communities with regard to the singer's authenticity.

So, well ... yeah. I think I've seen a few things lately making fun of indie acts with blue hyperlink parents. But upper middle class indie kids are nothing new.

Yeah - one of the Dummy guys (in the profile) refers to "punk and DIY music" as "working class genres"; which feels a bit... ahistorical (at least w/r/t indie rock, I dunno about punk). Whatever accounts for the phenomenon he's complaining about - rich indie-rock kids apparently thinking they "deserve to get paid" – I don't think it's solely b/c of their privileged backgrounds, b/c artists like that used to be willing to work their butts off too (if anything, it may have given some of them a "fallback" which made enduring the grinding-it-out life more palatable?)

Like - the DIY scene here in L.A., where Dummy is from, is absolutely populated by at least a very healthy % of upper-middle class kids (or at least was, not long ago, and I assume still is)

(and artists in that scene, whatever their background, weren't really focused on getting Sub Pop singles or touring nationally; it was all very centered around the local community... so Dummy seem to represent a very particular kind of "DIY" artist with Big Ambitions)

The Wet Leg takedown is funny - yeah, they were discovered and got a push. It's a thing that's happened faster and more often with the UK music world vs. the US for as long as I've been paying attention to music (including US bands going to England, like all the Meet Me In The Bathroom bands). Expecting the music culture there to derive meaning from the flagellation of driving a piece of shit Econoline from Reno to Vegas is harder when there's not a desert and the entire landmass is smaller than several US states.

I’m enough of a poptimist to think that getting in the van is not a virtue in and of itself

So the music industry has a class problem. What creative industry doesn't?

It's easy to take shots at artists from privileged backgrounds. But the real hard work is in uplifting voices from less privileged backgrounds. I don't see these moaners doing that. Just talking shit and complaining about their own relative lack of success.

Yes, Wet Leg and Clairo got a headstart from privilege. But more importantly, they make good music. We should be uplifting all good music, regardless of background.

Call me idealistic, but I think it's more productive to give exposure to artists from less privileged backgrounds, than to tear down more privileged artists for their success - regardless of how much you think it's deserved or not.

You had me up until Wet Leg make good music.

The allegation about Wet Leg in the piece is that they “have the immediate advantage of several powerful music industry figures giving them a boost” – to illustrate this, it links to a Billboard article which says their former bassist worked for a management guy who liked their stuff and sent it to labels.

Meanwhile, it sounds like Dummy got signed to their current label because one of the dudes sent his tape around and a label guy liked it.

So Wet Leg had a relationship that gave them a leg up (pun intended). As a listener, I couldn’t care less… I can see why it might be annoying to someone in another band with similar aspirations, but I don’t get the writer’s withering hate. Sub Pop liked Dummy enough to contact them, so they’re well on their way. The cream rises to the top, right?

clairo is a weird case because the way she blew up was about as organic as it gets (viral hit on youtube without any sort of label push) & while her dad certainly would have been a big help in getting her record deal after that i'm sure labels would have been interested regardless

You had me up until Wet Leg make good music.

Tell me you don't like to have fun with telling me you don't like to have fun.

Ugh *without obviously

It's easy to take shots at artists from privileged backgrounds. But the real hard work is in uplifting voices from less privileged backgrounds. I don't see these moaners doing that. Just talking shit and complaining about their own relative lack of success.

I have no dog in this race but surely this is literally what the writer is doing? She's writing about a band she believes is from a less privileged background and superior to other acts getting more success.

the position that Wet Leg make bogstandard indie that the music press have fastened onto in search of a new saviour is completely defensible

their privilege is self-perpetuating. they've made it so they will continue making it. what especially galls is that they made it after 1 or 2 songs, neither of which were musically interesting in any way, just lurid slogans with a basic hook

because of all this, and because it is punching up at a group who have achieved cultural ubiquity on the basis of what feels to a lot of people like very little, i am down for all Wet Leg hit-jobs

okay having read that article, the bit about Wet Leg is just a small throwaway line - an apt bit of dismissal - in a much larger piece about the trials and triumphs of touring on a tight budget, and the craft of music-making

i suppose the poptimist rejoinder would be that if people like Wet Leg more then this validates their music and approach and canonisation, but my counter to that is that poptimism is not about celebrating what is popular per se, it is about celebrating ALL music AS pop, and the issue then becomes exposure - if you're an incurious listener you won't hear much besides the big names, and you'll probably think Wet Leg are the best indie going because you simply haven't had the exposure to much else, nor the patience to look for it. 'you hate fun' is the recourse of the person who hates listening

Too late to reconsider now - you’ve already just gone on the record condoning and enabling punching up hit jobs!

At length

i wasn't reconsidering - let there be aesthetic punching up, it's healthy and it's, um, fun

my takeaway from this once you get past the snark was "yes, bands can still make money on tour"

well, yes

Unless they have to spend it all on a new van. That van was giving me anxiety.

if you're an incurious listener you won't hear much besides the big names, and you'll probably think Wet Leg are the best indie going because you simply haven't had the exposure to much else, nor the patience to look for it

v obnoxious thing to say, assumes so much about a listener you've invented in your head

no chance i'm reading this whole thing, but i skimmed to the wet leg paragraph. i thought the "making music shouldn't be fun" quote was a joke lol

to clarify, i did not think it was a real quote from the article when it was pasted into this thread

The cream rises to the top, right?

It's nice to think this, but it's definitely not universally true. Now more than ever.

Of course (I meant that with a wink), but it seems to be true enough about the band she’s writing about. The point of the article is that “true DIY” success is possible and Dummy are demonstrating that, so why is she mad? Is she pissed they don’t have even better-connected friends so they too can be on Domino Records?

Their album got a higher score in pitchfork than wet leg’s did!

clairo is a weird case because the way she blew up was about as organic as it gets (viral hit on youtube without any sort of label push) & while her dad certainly would have been a big help in getting her record deal after that i'm sure labels would have been interested regardless

― ufo, Sunday, July 24, 2022 7:19 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

it's funny because her dad's relationship with the fader (which initially got clairo signed to fader label) is prob more beneficial to the fader than to clairo herself, since they're included in her joint venture with republic

I am not discounting the possibility that there are somehow listeners out there who have heard 250 albums in a year, featuring a non-negligible amount of rock/indie, who maintain that Wet Leg are the best of the lot, more deserving of their listening time and praise than anything else. I don't understand you, but fair enough if that resembles you. However, I am saying that if you don't follow as much music as you frankly should as a critic/forum poster, you'll probably end up fatuously cheering on the supremacy of acts that get the Big Push from the big obvious places (and this doesn't just mean Pitchfork scores, it means coverage, hype, airtime). Like, I don't mind when, for example, I go on my soccer forum and see posters pipe up all 'Hey have you heard the Wet Leg? Best indie in years! Omgzors!' etc, because they're not music nerds, they'll eat what they're given and that's fine, let Wet Leg be the sound of their summer or whatever. But when you're on ILM, do the work. Poptimism doesn't mean laziness. That obnoxious enough for you?

I know Wet Leg only through this forum. I'd not heard of them through any of my friends who are still pretty plugged into The Kids and What's Happening Now.

the position that Wet Leg make bogstandard indie

given an article involving 'bands that sound like Stereloab'/'shoegaze in 2022'/'the cultural institutions of college rock labels of the 1980s'/'garage rock legends' this would seem to fall in the narcissism of small differences zone.

I admittedly haven't listened to Dummy yet

Maybe I'll do the work now

you don't follow as much music as you frankly should as a critic/forum shitposter

This sounds like Stereolab!!!!

Nah, it's got my attention. See you all in 40 minutes