I have had it up to here waiting for the Beatles catalogue to be remastered

yep

As surprising as it seems, there’s a melancholic side to « Yellow Submarine » !

xps yeah the mono “She Said” sounds like being insanely high, sometimes it’s my favourite Beatles of all.

sorry i didn’t dig through the bonuses on the previous reissues too thoroughly… but is this the most revealing and interesting set of outtakes since the anthology sets

As surprising as it seems, there’s a melancholic side to « Yellow Submarine » !

And yet, John never moaned about it being cheerfulled up, like “Help” was..

Wow, that instrumental cut of "I Want to Tell You" rocks.

sorry i didn’t dig through the bonuses on the previous reissues too thoroughly… but is this the most revealing and interesting set of outtakes since the anthology sets

oh you have to listen to the abby road and white album bonuses, there is amazing stuff in there.

I need to go back to my mp3s of the Purple Chick version of Revolver and see what other session stuff is out there for this album. I feel like I've never heard this stuff; but I'm pretty sure there are other session outtakes that did leak in the past.

I have that Purple Chick version, and it looks like the stereo bonus tracks are all from Anthology

there is a deluxe, and it has a ton of for no one and here there and everywhere takes, but I can't recall how different or revelatory any of them are (likely not, which is usually the case with these things).

ah OK I did not know that! I just have the full-disc mono & stereo versions

That remix of She Said She Said is so utterly hideous what a disgrace

I can't believe Giles has managed an even worse mix than Long, Long, Long. Why did he do it like it was Good Day Sunshine.

The new stereo mix is more vivid than the ‘66 stereo, but much less agitated and immediate than the original mono mix. On a few tracks — especially “For No One” — it sounds like the mix was done on headphones, with the vocals WAY out front. And while I know Ringo played on “For No One,” you’d never know it from the new mix.

What’s great about the mono mix is that it’s claustrophobic and scrunched-up. This album isn’t supposed to be expansive and airy: it’s all speed, all weed, instruments forcing their way into the picture and suddenly ducking out, and it’s supposed to rush by at a frantic pace. The new stereo mix slows things down; yes, we notice a few more details, and appreciate a few arranging and playing choices that we didn’t hear before, but it impedes the journey. If any of that makes any sense.

otmfm

Yeah the vocals on the new Eleanor Rigby sound bloody terrible; far too isolated from the rest of the mix; like they recorded him down a well.

I don’t hear much mention of the fact that the mix was done using “de-mixed” stems, i.e. “AI” algorithms applied to the existing mixes to recreate what the isolated bass, drums etc must have sounded like, then mixed into a new stereo spread. It’s impressive and convincing, but maybe that’s why it sounds a little emptier to some?

xxxx - post

Yeah - that was what I was inarticulately trying to say as well up thread. The new stereo mix slows things down and detracts from the overall feel of the album.

I do wonder if some of the odd choices regarding Paul's vocals are because Giles Martin has to work by committee. I did see in an interview that Paul gets a say (so does Ringo, but I'm not sure he took an active interest) and had some suggestions.

Overall, it's a curate's egg of a mix. George comes out of it particularly well with all 3 of his songs sounding great. Paul's songs have great instrumentation but the vocal is sometimes odd or disconnected, and John's IOS and SSSS are interesting but ultimately unsatisfactory.

I think the fact that the most significant outtakes — non-giggly-stoners “And Your Bird Can Sing,” electric “Got To Get You Into My Life” — are largely mixed to mimic the original mono mixes speaks volumes.

I don’t know if you can compare this new mix to the mono mix. It’s meant to update the stereo mix, after all, and I think as such it does its job with the one notable exception.

The mono mix is a different beast altogether, and I like it that way.

New Taxman is fantastic. The rest still sounds uncanny valley to me.

Would love to hear a de-mixed Pet Sounds, every mix of that has sounded mushy to me.

mushiness on pet sounds seems like part of the point; i don't know how I'd feel about the tracks being sharper.

That backing track of "She Said She Said" kinda sounds like a precursor to Beefheart's Magic Band doing "Kandy Korn", with those interlaced guitars and Ringo's weird-ass drum fills

On a few tracks — especially “For No One” — it sounds like the mix was done on headphones, with the vocals WAY out front

Wouldn’t be surprised, I read Giles saying somewhere that one of his specific goals with the mix was to create something that caters to modern youth habits of mainly listening to stuff on headphones

Fwiw I like the new mixes, with the exception of She Said She Said which is a fucking catastrophe

I noticed the guitar at the start of paperback writer has a lot less oomph in the remix over the mono version.

Overall I don’t really like the new space in the recordings - it’s a psychedelic drone record, the compression and closeness is part of the point! — but otoh I absolutely love the sound of Ringo’s drums being louder than usual

I mean I always loved Ringo’s style but hearing the drums with this clarity is bringing me closer to hero worship territory

I am old enough to remember mastering specifically for laptop speakers

In the 90s every studio had those cube monitors that were supposed to be like car speakers

Do we now need to revisit every mix with some off-brand earbuds

Gah

man anyone ever tells me Ringo's a crap drummer again I'm gonna send them to Rain/Paperback Writer

He's always been the most interesting to me of the four players to focus on.

really feeling Paul on the new mixes/outtakes

Paul kills me. He's the best overall musician of the group. He showed up for most every song recorded by at least two of the others. Had the best solo career.

And yet, he's still the Jay Leno of the band. There's a lesson there somewhere, I'm just not sure what it is.

^^^ lol best summation of McC's career ever

Hahaha!

I like how you get to hear two bits of Beatle lore, the yes/no vibrato on 'Eleanor Rigby' situation, and poor George getting gyp for not ever having song titles.

at some point last year, I read somewhere (can't remember, but it was reputable) that "She Said She Said" is the only recording where the Threetles are J, G and R: Paul wasn't there and George played bass…otherwise, Paul was said to be the only one who was present for every single session in which the four were recording as a band…but that sounds like him on the two "she said" session cuts on CD 3…

and something also occurred to me listening to this yesterday: it's my understanding (please tarfumes or somebody else let us know if this is not so) that when you hear, say the figure that opens "Ticket to Ride" or "She Said She Said" or "And I love her" or scores of other beatles cuts where you are a hearing a composed part that has been essential to our comprehension and enjoyment of those cuts for 50-60 years, J or P did not say to George "okay, you need to play this part of this song like this, this is how I wrote this, play it like this"; George came up with that shit in almost every instance! I daresay in a very significant sense the person who contributes the opening figure of "I Feel Fine" deserves a songwriting credit, and thus there should have been "Lennon/McCartney/Harrison" credits.

again, the case of these four people is unusual, in that if there is a signature guitar part in a song from a peer group, then it's contributed by the composer who's a guitar player, Townshend, Richard, Page. Can Tarfumes come up with an example of Dave Davies contributing a composed part to a Kinks tune that everyone agrees is a key component of the song, but of course Ray is the credited songwriter?

Ray composed a lot of those songs on the piano, and might not have had specific guitar parts in mind; I assume Dave came up with, for example, the arpeggio opening of "Tired of Waiting for You" if Ray is playing the power chords underneath.

Re: "I Feel Fine":

Lennon wrote the song's guitar riff while the Beatles were in the studio recording "Eight Days a Week" in October 1964

I think your other examples were contributed by Harrison (although I'd say the opening to "She Said She Said" is a generic guitar lead, not a hook per se).

I can’t think of any Davies examples off the top of my head, but despite being a fan, I haven’t read up much on the Kinks.

Re: George, in the Scorsese documentary on Harrison, Paul pointed out that George came up with the main guitar figure for “And I Love Her,” saying, “That’s the song!” Yeah, so, maybe you should’ve cut him in on the publishing. I mean, John and Paul would each get far more credit for songs that they barely contributed to.

Of course the assignation of songwriting credits was far more relaxed (when it wasn't corrupt) in the 60s.
I'm trying to think of which rock band starting giving all members equal songwriting credit on all songs - earliest that comes to mind is Black Sabbath?

The Doors did that on their first three albums

Right! But I've just looked at a long list of 60s bands and can't think of any who would have done this before they did.

Like I'm imagining Ray Davies' head exploding at 75% of his publishing on "You Really Got Me" going to his brother, Quaife and Avory.

Didn't Booker T. and the M.G.s credit all core members for songwriting?

FWIW, a while back, it was revealed that regardless of the songwriting credits, every original song recorded by the Band had two values: the writer's share and the publisher's share. With the publisher's share, they always split it five ways (minus what was given to the publisher to administer the publishing). In a way it was a not-bad way to address the contributions others might make to a song without being the actual credited songwriter.

anyone ever tells me Ringo's a crap drummer again I'm gonna send them to Rain/Paperback Writer

Somebody telling you this is a sure sign they know fuck-all about rock'n'roll

“Ringo=crap drummer” was like patient zero of the now-common practice of flooding the zone with disinformation.

Like I'm imagining Ray Davies' head exploding at 75% of his publishing on "You Really Got Me" going to his brother, Quaife and Avory.

― Halfway there but for you, Monday, October 31, 2022 3:42 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Ray's wife at the time Rasa contributed significantly to his peak-era songs, and remains uncredited:

https://andrewhickey.info/2018/01/28/did-a-teenage-girl-make-the-kinks-great/

I read that, I found it dubious.

...and as I suggested, if it were true, you'll have a long wait for Ray Davies to share credit.

Guy so cheap that he protested the medics cutting his trousers when he got shot in NOLA, or so the story goes.