Yeah, Roach never stopped taking risks. Can you imagine? -- Brown and Braxton! Brown with Cecil Taylor! (As it happened, Brown and Eric Dolphy played together informally in the mid-'50s.)
But also, while we don't know what he might have done, we similarly don't know the effect he would have continued to have on the music. Would Miles have risen to prominence the way he did if Brown had lived? Would Brown being straight-edge (though it obviously wasn't called that at the time) have inspired more musicians to get clean?
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 12 January 2023 17:02 (one year ago) link
is the story about roach punching / otherwise assaulting ornette coleman true? if so did he have a change of heart about the avant garde later on or was it something specific about ornette's approach or personality that pissed him off?
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Thursday, 12 January 2023 17:34 (one year ago) link
I think Roach had an anger/ violence problem in his younger years. I remember reading he abused Abbey Lincoln when they were together.
― Lord Pickles (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 12 January 2023 17:49 (one year ago) link
I never heard that story, and I knew a couple of musicians who were personally acquainted with both Roach and Ornette -- if it was true, I feel like I would have heard it many times by now. That said, Miles's autobiography has a story or two about how Max struggled with alcoholism after Brown's (and later, Booker Little's) death, and would act unpredictably and, in at least one instance, scary and threatening (when he tried to physically break down the door of Miles's house -- Miles was out, but Frances was home and extremely frightened). So it's not impossible, but if it did happen, I doubt it was because of Max's feelings about the new music (and Max played with Eric Dolphy -- I can't imagine he would have dislike Ornette's work much, certainly not enough to assault him).
xp
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 12 January 2023 17:50 (one year ago) link
There was a story in Spin in the 80s about Roach throwing a writer — who had shown up accompanied by Fab Five Freddy — out of his house for being insufficiently accepting of the musical relationship between jazz and hip-hop. I don't think he ever lost his temper. But he was definitely open to new sounds; he played duos with Braxton, with Shepp, with Cecil; he made albums with string quartets joining his band; he founded M'Boom; he did a whole lot of really adventurous shit that I haven't dug into nearly as deeply as I should.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 12 January 2023 17:57 (one year ago) link
I remember that piece. The writer mentioned Zeppelin samples in hip-hop. Max said, "Hip-hop swings. I never heard Led Zeppelin swing."
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 12 January 2023 18:07 (one year ago) link
some may disagree but he's right
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Thursday, 12 January 2023 18:10 (one year ago) link
Found it -- not sure if the link will work, but it's on page 60 of the October, 1988 issue of Spin:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ozV_Wa_c470C&lpg=PA60&dq=%22Max%20Roach%22&pg=PA60#v=onepage&q=%22Max%20Roach%22&f=false
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 12 January 2023 18:11 (one year ago) link
xps I really appreciate rollins' respect for the avant garde without diving in with both feet - I'm sure a lot of people in the jazz world wanted to use him as a weapon like they did with others of his generation who were much less open minded
re: Hubbard I agree he sounds a bit lost on those records (it was nice of him to show up) but he's a great ingredient in the "inside out" semi-free post-bop recordings with Dolphy, Hill, Hutcherson, etc I can imagine Brown filling a similar niche
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Thursday, 12 January 2023 18:22 (one year ago) link
I didn't realize this was the only footage of Brown known to survive - it's from Soupy Sales's variety show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuP3CfFZDQ
And check out the comments - five years ago, one of Brown's nephews wrote that this YouTube upload was the first time he ever heard his uncle speak (when he talks with Sales at the very end). It's even more sad given that Brown talks about the birth of his son.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 12 January 2023 20:58 (one year ago) link
Damn, I didn't know that, crazy. Maybe because he didn't get a chance to tour Europe? It seems like that's where most of the well-recorded video footage of earlier jazz comes from, Euro tv shows and filmed concerts.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 12 January 2023 21:04 (one year ago) link
Quick plug in for The Sounds of Sonny, 1957 on Riverside: it's not as essential as Way Out West, but has a similar funky sound, a pianoless track, and a solo track.
― structural ambiguity, Monday, 16 January 2023 18:54 (one year ago) link
When my dad interviewed James Brown. (Downbeat 1968) pic.twitter.com/cHQet19P4e— Fitz Gitler (@techdef) January 16, 2023
an amusing little snippet of The Godfather having very wrong opinions on Rollins
― calzino, Monday, 16 January 2023 19:06 (one year ago) link
Maybe James changed his tune a few years later, because on “Super Bad, part 2” JB exhorted saxophonist Robert McCollough to “Blow me some Trane!” which McCollough duly did, not exactly adhering to the chords.At 4:00 here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV9a3tUPqTo
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 16 January 2023 20:10 (one year ago) link
i'm not reading that extract as being particularly anti-rollins -- JB says he doesn't play melodies, which, well, definitions, and he says others can't follow him all the way bcz he's weird, and he says he JB dug that other stuff but beethoven couldn't have figured out the changes (which tbf is probably true!)
― mark s, Monday, 16 January 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
if it was middle-aged beethoven you'd have to notate it for him and he probably would be confused!
― calzino, Monday, 16 January 2023 20:26 (one year ago) link
And Sonny Rollins could never have the harmonic & rhythmic focus and minimalism necessary to sustain the funk. Good thing we can enjoy them both!
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 16 January 2023 21:06 (one year ago) link
whoa whoa, I'm not so sure about that. Sonny was capable of anything!
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 16 January 2023 22:27 (one year ago) link
I thought things could get pretty funky (in a *Rolling* way),along with R&B & Caribbean, on some of his 70s-80s albums, esp. Nucleus (incl. Darryl Blackbird McKnight and Chuck Rainey), also Sunny Days, Starry Nights.
― dow, Monday, 16 January 2023 22:32 (one year ago) link
*Rollins*, I meant, but Rolling too, always.
― dow, Monday, 16 January 2023 22:33 (one year ago) link
He had the calypso thing, but they had very different visions of infinity. Or perhaps...not so different after all?
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 16 January 2023 23:01 (one year ago) link
THE NOTEBOOKS OF SONNY ROLLINS came out today from NY Review Books
at a glance, there's nothing to dispel the idea that he is a mad genius
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 17 April 2024 03:38 (one month ago) link
Phew, thought we'd lost him there.
― My God's got no nose... (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 April 2024 06:33 (one month ago) link
every time this thread is revived
― Left, Wednesday, 17 April 2024 13:50 (one month ago) link
#musingsofmiles #bouncingofbach
― Left, Wednesday, 17 April 2024 13:51 (one month ago) link
Just finished Saxophone Colossus and listening to his entire discography. It’s now a challops but the Milestone run is better than its reputation and I quite enjoyed The Solo Album even if that one has not been rehabilitated.
― President of the Canadian Council of Bassoonists (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 17 April 2024 13:54 (one month ago) link
Saxophone Colossus the book, that is
had to look up which albums are milestone
I think nucleus and global warming are pretty great but I haven't heard most of the others. I heard bad things from jazz nerds which I took too seriously when I was young and insecure about being into jazz so I'm sure there's lots to uncover
I heard the solo album maybe once as a teen and found it boring because it wasn't accessible hard bop or extreme free jazz so I didn't understand the point of it
― Left, Wednesday, 17 April 2024 14:33 (one month ago) link
I'll link to the three long things I wrote about Sonny in the '70s, which I'm sure are upthread somewhere:
Part 1, Part 2, Part 3
― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Wednesday, 17 April 2024 14:44 (one month ago) link
More on the Notebooks of Sonny Rollins
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/books/review/notebooks-of-sonny-rollins.html
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 18 April 2024 05:23 (one month ago) link
I'm not a huge fan tbh, but I'm listening to the 40 minute version of 'Four' and it certainly is something (mostly a monument to the rhythm section, sustaining that level of swing and energy and attention at the same tempo for that long).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KCDJtiY8sg
― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Thursday, 18 April 2024 15:11 (one month ago) link
Also kind of amazing that it just keeps speeding up, lol
― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Thursday, 18 April 2024 15:32 (one month ago) link
I'm not a huge fan tbh
― Are you addicted to struggling with your horse? (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 18 April 2024 16:07 (one month ago) link