I have no idea when the last time I was this angry about a music-related piece anywhere. just such fucking bullshit, and such a giant shining indicator -- as if one were needed, but still -- of how much was lost, obscured, hidden, diminished, obviated by guys like this determining who did or didn't get the lead review, the front cover, the news item.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:36 (eight months ago) link
Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level.
Oh, stop it. You’re telling me Joni Mitchell is not articulate enough on an intellectual level?
Hold on a second.
I’ll let you rephrase that.
All right, thank you. It’s not that they’re not creative geniuses. It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test. Not by her work, not by other interviews she did. The people I interviewed were the kind of philosophers of rock.
Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as “masters,” the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:37 (eight months ago) link
Oh, stop it. You’re telling me Joni Mitchell is not articulate enough on an intellectual level?Hold on a second.I’ll let you rephrase that.A: All right, thank you. It’s not that they’re not creative geniuses. It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test. Not by her work, not by other interviews she did. The people I interviewed were the kind of philosophers of rock.Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as “masters,” the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.Q: How do you know if you didn’t give them a chance?A: Because I read interviews with them. I listen to their music. I mean, look at what Pete Townshend was writing about, or Jagger, or any of them. They were deep things about a particular generation, a particular spirit and a particular attitude about rock ’n’ roll. Not that the others weren’t, but these were the ones that could really articulate it.
A: All right, thank you. It’s not that they’re not creative geniuses. It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test. Not by her work, not by other interviews she did. The people I interviewed were the kind of philosophers of rock.
Q: How do you know if you didn’t give them a chance?
A: Because I read interviews with them. I listen to their music. I mean, look at what Pete Townshend was writing about, or Jagger, or any of them. They were deep things about a particular generation, a particular spirit and a particular attitude about rock ’n’ roll. Not that the others weren’t, but these were the ones that could really articulate it.
I can't be rational about how fucked up this is, it enrages me.
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:39 (eight months ago) link
lol xp
Fat White Family are absolute garbage and I'm glad Unperson has included that piece in here. The inanity of its arguments aside, it's a terribly written piece. Lots of strained overwriting to show how clever and righteous he is.
― Composition 40b (Stew), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:44 (eight months ago) link
I cant read the article. Can anyone paste it for me please?
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:45 (eight months ago) link
You know, just for public relations sake, maybe I should have gone and found one Black and one woman artist to include here that didn’t measure up to that same historical standard, just to avert this kind of criticism.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:45 (eight months ago) link
(the jann wenner thing, not the gobshite from fat shite family)
Would love to hear Grace Slick's retort about this guy.
― my brain goes aahhhh (morrisp), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:48 (eight months ago) link
Also this Wenner thing is appalling. Thinking Pete Townsend or Mick Jagger are deeper writers than the authors of What's Going On or There's No Place Like America Today...
― Composition 40b (Stew), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:49 (eight months ago) link
I cant imagine anybody saying Curtis Mayfield was inarticulate. Until now.
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:50 (eight months ago) link
he is so fucking stupid that it is astounding that everyone in a position to know consistently attested to his incisive editing ability.
― veronica moser, Friday, 15 September 2023 14:51 (eight months ago) link
Dude's really talking like there's nothing they could have done differently with the UVA story
As we all know now, if somebody really wants to hoax you, there’s very little you can do about it. Except have the kind of hypervigilance that would mean you could probably publish nothing.
― jmm, Friday, 15 September 2023 14:52 (eight months ago) link
And of course the money quote about the 5 star review for Goddess in the Doorway:
“I confess: I probably went too far. So what? I’m entitled.”
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:54 (eight months ago) link
if somebody really wants to hoax you, there’s very little you can do about it.
just iconically dumb
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:55 (eight months ago) link
Sounds like a guy who's real fun on coke.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 15 September 2023 14:55 (eight months ago) link
it was also often said that he was uncomfortable around black folks…like Touré, the first black RS staffer, scared him…TOURE!no question that he among much of the staff also considered black music of the time pandering show biz crap, compared to the oracular musing of Jagger, Dylan, Boss, Townshend, etc
― veronica moser, Friday, 15 September 2023 14:55 (eight months ago) link
What didn’t the rock ’n’ roll generation do? I mean, it didn’t get everything done. But I have no fundamental, deep criticisms. Is there something that you think we didn’t get right?
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 15 September 2023 14:56 (eight months ago) link
^ possibly the most boomer thing anyone's ever said
― jmm, Friday, 15 September 2023 14:59 (eight months ago) link
fitting that he ends up arguing against one of his Rock Philosopher Kings
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:00 (eight months ago) link
"We didn't blow it"
― Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:00 (eight months ago) link
They didn't do ALL the drugs, and thus left some over for the next generation
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:01 (eight months ago) link
the wrong kind of eyes
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 15 September 2023 15:01 (eight months ago) link
He could talk to all the 14 year olds the rock stars had sex with but they probably aren't that articulate
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:02 (eight months ago) link
I mistakenly thought that the interview was old. Y’know, like from his self-loathing and closeted years, making unto straight white guitar heroes some sort of unattainable ideal. That might have almost made some sense. But … Jesus. Hope this turns into a pod ep of Bad Gays
― 50 Best Fellas (Eric H.), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:24 (eight months ago) link
those of you who know me, mark my words: if I ever meet Jann Wenner, and it's not outside the realm of possibility, weirder things have happened in my life, I'm gonna punch him in the mouth for the shit he says in his NYT interview here.🕸
― Boris Yitsbin (wins), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:26 (eight months ago) link
I never knew how much I needed a wenner episode of bad gays
it's like he went out of his way to confirm all of the worst rumours about him
I haven't read that sticky fingers book but apparently he didn't learn a thing from that experience
― die cis scum (Left), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:30 (eight months ago) link
sounds like he hasn't learned a thing since 1972
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:31 (eight months ago) link
he's turned into Glenn Frey
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:34 (eight months ago) link
i could barely read that interview after reading the segment posted here upthread.
lord, what a cumquat
― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal), Friday, 15 September 2023 15:40 (eight months ago) link
the part where he says maybe he should have included "one Black and one woman artist to include here that didn’t measure up to that same historical standard, just to avert this kind of criticism." the fucking nerve
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 15 September 2023 16:29 (eight months ago) link
for whatever reason i can only hear that bit about 'philosophers of rock' in longmont potion castle's voice
― ufo, Friday, 15 September 2023 16:36 (eight months ago) link
lol
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 15 September 2023 16:47 (eight months ago) link
i feel like ilx has existed for 23 years almost purely for this moment of apotheosis & righteous fury haha, or at least this thread has. Nemesis hath arisen, slavering
― imago, Friday, 15 September 2023 16:47 (eight months ago) link
end boss of rockism
― imago, Friday, 15 September 2023 16:48 (eight months ago) link
the audacity of him mentioning Curtis Mayfield as being lacking compared to these dudes is just infuriating. Mayfield was a genius, maybe one of the most talented musicians of the century....he literally did everything better than those guys, he was a producer, arranger, songwriter, amazing guitar player, produced tons of stuff for other artist, ran a record label. he even had his own guitar tuning he invented himself. fucking Bono? Jagger? these guys aren't even in the same realm as Mayfield
(guitar tuning article)https://www.premierguitar.com/digging-deeper-curtis-mayfield
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 15 September 2023 16:58 (eight months ago) link
wow, just in time for the ever-growing backlash against "poptimism" (or at least the strawman version of it)
― Murgatroid, Friday, 15 September 2023 17:03 (eight months ago) link
What the fuck does someone like Jagger know about how rock changed the world or whatever? He's been a millionaire for longer than most people have been alive.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 15 September 2023 17:04 (eight months ago) link
wow rude
― imago, Friday, 15 September 2023 17:05 (eight months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iMqBhNKfPo
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 15 September 2023 17:14 (eight months ago) link
wenner fears black people and hates radical politics so turn of the 70s funk must have really terrified him, I think that's the crux of his issue with CM
imagine how much more expansive "rock" could have been without people like this calling the shots
― Left, Friday, 15 September 2023 17:15 (eight months ago) link
I think Alfred will agree with me here as to what this quote most reminds me of:
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/09/21/Interior-Secretary-James-Watt-drew-laughs-when-he-told/1131432964800/
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 September 2023 17:38 (eight months ago) link
roffle
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 15 September 2023 17:39 (eight months ago) link
i feel like even Mick would cringe at being called a "philosopher" of any kind. Dude has never been particularly articulate, he seems to just coast whenever anyone tries to ask him anything meaningful. Which is fine! That's how Mick Jagger should be!
― tylerw, Friday, 15 September 2023 18:21 (eight months ago) link
idk I’m holding the dulux chart up to a pic and he looks v Articulate to me
― Boris Yitsbin (wins), Friday, 15 September 2023 18:23 (eight months ago) link
Jagger's contributions to Harriet Vyner's book about Robert Fraser, Groovy Bob, are actually quite thoughtful and interesting, perhaps because he's not talking about the Stones specifically.
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 15 September 2023 18:38 (eight months ago) link
Jeb Lund on Bluesky:
my wenner story is that i once found a guy in my editor's office who radiated the pre-indictment energy of every real-estate crook i've met & was dressed as if he'd asked "what's the most expensive looking version of this i could wear" and immediately put on whatever the answer is, and that was jann
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 September 2023 19:08 (eight months ago) link
i am gonna be the guy who says, “why is anybody surprised that this guy is among the biggest assholes ever, and the Times is doing puff pieces for him”
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Friday, 15 September 2023 19:28 (eight months ago) link
If that's supposed to be a "puff piece", I really want to see the guy's hatchet jobs because uh, this is exposing Wenner's assholishness to entirely new audiences, going by what I'm seeing on social media.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 15 September 2023 19:31 (eight months ago) link