S/D: Old-Timey Music (e.g., Prewar Gospel Blues, Bluegrass, Mountain Music)

i don't think he recorded more than a few sides.

Yeah. Karnes was involved in the Bristol Sessions, which were apparently the "big bang" of recorded country music. Here are Karnes' contributions:

Alfred G. Karnes: Called to the Foreign Field, I Am Bound for the Promised Land, Where We'll Never Grow Old, When I See the Blood, When They Ring the Golden Bells for You and Me, To the Work (7/29)

I think it's the first three songs that are on eMusic.

if i'm not mistaken, his complete works are on the 1st disc of that JSP "mountain gospel" set. it all sounds very much of a piece, which is fine by me. my favorite might be "where we'll never grow old" which is very sad (although possibly meant to be otherwise?).

A lot of that turn-of-the-20th-century music sounds unintentionally sad. Something in the crackling and aging of the records and the echoing ghosts of a bygone era.

yeah, i think we "hear" a lot of that stuff differently than folks heard it back then. charley patton is a good example: i don't know that the people who bought his records would have felt they were "searing" or intense as opposed to just exciting and catchy. but it's really impossible to reconstruct an "interpretive community" for that stuff so i guess we just get a bunch of folks like ourselves projecting in various ways.

xp Those White Country Blues and Mr. Charlie's Blues comps (both 1926-1938) have some of my favorite music ever, period.

Also, fwiw, I found a second vinyl copy of Minstrels and Tunesmiths: The Commercial Roots Of Early Country Music (John Edwards Memorial Foundation/JEMF, 1981, rec. 1907-1923) in a Goodwill store over the weekend. My first copy has been quite reliable for a couple decades now. If somebody's really interested in the LP, they should email me.

I definitely hear what I want to hear in this music. I hear what I want to hear in Ring My Bell, too, for that matter.

When I mentioned this music genre to my wife, she said "Oh, yeah! What's that scary K1an song from the movie O Brother Where Art Thou?" It's O, Death, and on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoIebIKNS4s

Not really old-time music, but an interpretation thereof. And o_0, that video unnerves me (I'm Jewish, but I'm sure most people are unnerved by the K1an).

(I Google-proofed the word "K1an," BTW)

BTW, that White Country Blues disc just showed-up on eMusic (it's part of Sony's back-catalogue). I'll download it this weekend.

i can try to scan in and post the liner notes (which are good) if you're interested.

that scene in OBWAT offended me when i saw it. but i suppose if ralph stanley wasn't offended, i shouldn't be. i am offended by the general dullness of that movie though.

I'd love to see the liner notes!

Yeah, I have very conflicted feelings about that scene. OTOH, sometimes art's role is to highlight -- rather than obscure -- ugliness. The movie was dull, but the performances by the three lead actors were v. good (especially Clooney).

yeah, lots of talent went into that movie, and there are some real good bits, but the whole thing just feels kind of slack and dumb.

Love this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK8obqDMVy0

http://www.1001tunes.com/props/gid.riley.animated02.gif

Alfred Karnes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Drgf-oCSdU

I wonder if eMusic's scattered offerings from Alfred Karnes represent all his recorded output. This disc is the most complete collection I've seen, and it only has eight songs by Karnes.

I wish there were some Kathy & Carol clips on youtube. great, great guitar-and-autoharp duo from SoCal who put out a single LP of old-time ballads in the mid-60s, featuring some of the closest and prettiest female folk harmonies I've heard. It's similar I guess to Joan Baez's first two records, but the harmonies make it so much more palatable to my ears.

xpost

yeah, this JSP compilation includes all 8 of those sides, and the liner notes describe them as his complete surviving output. he only recorded two sessions (the first was part of the famed 1927 Bristol sessions & the second came about a year and a half thereafter) before retiring to his post as a Baptist minister and singing solely for the benefit of the church.

He had the "bug-eyed evengelical fervor"-vibe down to an art.

aye

the second session really falls flat in terms of capturing the raw power of the guy's voice (as heard in that youtube clip). I wonder why. maybe he just wasn't miked properly on the second go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDJPnG3RDxU

Tommy Jarrell is great. Wonderful banjo player too.

I've been listening to this a lot lately:

http://www.coolhunting.com/images/hobartsmith.jpg

Hobart Smith recorded shortly before he died by Fleming Brown at the latter's home. Great stuff -- banjo, guitar, piano accompaniment.

here's my attempt at compiling Bascom Lamar Lunsford's early commercial records, which don't seem to be available on CD all in one place (only 5 of them appear on Smithsonian's Ballads, Banjo Tunes... compilation).

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6946/bascomlamarlunsford.gif

http://www.mediafire.com/?0mhliwmgamg

1. Fate of Santa Barbara
2. Sherman Valley
3. Lost John Dean
4. Get Along Home Cindy
5. Old Mountain Dew
6. "Nol Pros" Nellie
7. Lulu Wall
8. Darby's Ram
9. Stepstone
10. I Wish I Was A Mole In The Ground
11. Kidder Cole
12. Italy
13. Little Turtle Dove
14. Dry Bones
15. Speaking the Truth
16. A Stump Speech in the 10th District

tracks 1-2 were recorded for Okeh Records in 1925; 3-14 for Brunswick Records in 1928; and 15-16 for Columbia Records in 1930. he put out another record on Okeh in 1924 ("Jesse James" b/w an early version of "Mole in the Ground"), but I haven't come across it on my internet trawls. more discographical info available here.

I can do a similar roundup of the Coon Creek Girls' output if there's a demand for it.

yeah, i'd like to see that roundup. unfortunately, very little of the coon-creek girls' output is available on emusic.

thanks for this! I'm attempting to do something similar with Emry Arthur--there are about 80 sides iirc and only a fraction of them have been reissued.

hey here is some biographical alfred karnes stuff i havent' read before--

http://books.google.com/books?id=jMeR6O2wN8QC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=Alfred+G+Karnes+gospel&source=bl&ots=unb67ljdv5&sig=zHYCO5P0Lavy9sSz8O70hp0f9cs&hl=en&ei=1JIOTJ61KcP-8Aap7-WVCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEIQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Alfred%20G%20Karnes%20gospel&f=false

thanks for this. a hard-luck early life (mother died during childbirth; father left them in the care of an aunt).

Despite the fact that there may be some anti-Mississippi Records sentiment floating around, I'd like to point out that they have some compilations that might benefit visitors to this thread. They all have some post-war tunes as well, but here ya go:

uI Woke Up One Morning In May/u
uI Don't Feel at Home In This World Anymore/u
uDeath Might Be Your Santa Claus/u

Enjoy!

OK - guess my attempt at underlining was a bust...

I can do a similar roundup of the Coon Creek Girls' output if there's a demand for it.

― 'I Was Bees,' Says Hiker Stung 300 Times (unregistered), Monday, 15 February 2010 20:05 (3 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah, i'd like to see that roundup. unfortunately, very little of the coon-creek girls' output is available on emusic.

― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 15 February 2010 21:32 (3 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

New member and I've come very late to this thread. Is there any change of seeing some Coon Creek Girls stuff please?

Z

well that was an empty promise, wasn't it? I'll try and get that up sometime this week.

only vaguely related, but this looks like an interesting compilation. it collects various acts that appeared on John Lair's Renfro Valley Barn Dance radio show starting in the late '30s — Lair being the Coon Creek Girls' somewhat ruthless manager, with ties to acts like Homer & Jethro, Karl & Harty, and Homer & Jethro. he also formed the New Coon Creek Girls with a completely different lineup in the '70s; I have no idea if they're any good.

You all may know this, but the Down Home Radio Show is a good resource for contemporary old-time: http://www.downhomeradioshow.com/

Frank Fairfield

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lefJBwJhQ6E

Thanks Duke!

ok, here's some Coon Creek Girls stuff, finally:

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg436/chasleroy/CoonCreekGirlsStream.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/?itzmjjmmyly

Vocalion sides, recorded May 30, 1938:
1. Sowing on the Mountain
2. Old Uncle Dudy (Keep Fiddling On)
3. Banjo Pickin' Girl
4. Little Birdie
5. Pretty Polly
6. Flowers Blooming in the Wildwood

from the Renfro Valley Folks TV program, mid-'50s:

• How Many Biscuits Can You Eat

you can read biographies on the group here and here. the songs above aren't a complete discography; they recorded at 5 other sides in 1938 that I wasn't able to track down online, and they made a few more records in the '50s. their reunion album from 1968 is not very exciting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hd7rQx1rKM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aSH_fglRd8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYo9sHzCqj0

Does anyone know of a good sheet music collection (piano) from this era?

Belated thanks. You must think me very rude for waiting so long before replying. My excuse is that after posting I just forgot.

Z

Thanks in advance to all, I need to digest this thread fully having just started to immerse (ha!) myself in this stuff after being bought Take Me To The Water.

some nice trax here:
http://soupgreens.com/ghostsolos/

also this is a good place for me to talk up the amazing "There Breaths a Hope" collection of the Fisk Jubilee Quartet '09-'16 work on Archeophone. This is very important music to me; I grew up listening to it constantly and my father wrote the extensive (roughly 40 single spaced pages?) liner notes. It's powerful stuff, dense colorful and complex as can be. John Work II, the quartet leader, intellectualized post-slave era music into something like a new american opera and it can be difficult to digest. It's well worth your time though.
More background and sound clips here; would love to talk about this album more if anyone's into the discussion:
http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=104

that looks cool forks!

anyone have an opinion of this album by the coon creek girls? i've wanted something from them for a while, and this just appeared on emusic. looks good enough, but seemingly nothing available online to judge the authenticity, sound quality (if that matters with recordings this old), or representativeness of the CCG's work.

btw, dad's album mentioned above was nominated for best liner notes.
Good WSJ piece on it here by teachout that calls it "the most important historical reissue of 2010": http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704828104576021680985545912.html

xpost

it's been a while since I've heard that Coon Creek Girls album, but it's pretty good. keep in mind that it was released in 1967 and recorded around that time, so it came along about 30 years after their brief commercial recording career. Lily and Rosie Ledford were both original members, and Susie was recruited after two of the other original members left the group in the late '30s. the trio is the same lineup that sang some backing vocals for Ferlin Husky in the '50s, broke up in 1957, and resurfaced at the Newport Folk Festival a decade later.

three songs on this album ("Banjo Picking Girl", "Pretty Polly", and "Little Birdie") are re-recordings of the group's early (1938-9) material, one ("East Virginia Blues") was recorded by Lily May Ledford in 1944, and one ("How Many Biscuits Can You Eat", which they once performed at the White House in front of Franklin Roosevelt) was recorded in the mid-'50s and released years later on a Renfro Valley Barn Dance compilation.

the sound quality isn't super lo-fi by '60s standards, but the production is simple and homey, just as it should be. it's the sound of three middle-aged players running through part of their barndance repertoire, omitting neither the cornball hilbilly sizzlers nor the stately ballads more typical of the folk boom. Compared to the original Coon Creek Girls 78s, the performances here are a little less boisterous. the banjo playing is slower and less frilly, sounding less like the proto-bluegrass they're remembered for and more like creaky Appalachian country blues. Rosie and Susie still sound very youthful, but Lily sings in a lower register than she used to. her voice has a dour, lived-in quality that adds emotional weight to sad songs like "Pretty Polly" and East Virginia Blues" but falls a bit short on some of the livelier cuts. as a casual, earthy recording of a reunited old-time string band (cf. J.E. Mainer's album Run Mountain from the same era), I definitely recommend it.

in a way, I guess this album is more "authentic" than the original Coon Creek Girls singles. back in the '30, radio station boss John Lair brought together two of the Ledford sisters and two other players he'd discovered, gave them stage names, told them what instruments to play, wrote a couple of their songs, and oversaw all their recordings, radio appearances, and concerts. not quite the organic, homespun model that most people associate with early American roots music. it's obvious from the records, though, that Lair didn't manage to quash the creativity and energy and personality that made the Girls legends.

one ("East Virginia Blues") was recorded by Lily May Ledford in 1944, and one ("How Many Biscuits Can You Eat", which they once performed at the White House in front of Franklin Roosevelt) was recorded in the mid-'50s and released years later on a Renfro Valley Barn Dance compilation.

hmm, I didn't word this too well. all versions of these songs on the Lily May, Rosie & Susie album are re-recordings from 1967 or so, and the originals have been released elsewhere.

great cover of "Banjo Pickin' Girl" by Hazel Dickens and Alice Gerrard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJJCK3PIYIU