xxpost: Richard Balls, even
― StanM, Friday, 1 December 2023 01:45 (nine months ago) link
Hope his parents were brave enough to give him the middle name Nick or Norman.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Friday, 1 December 2023 02:24 (nine months ago) link
short interview with him from when the book came out: https://www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/20641855.richard-balls-interviewing-shane-macgowan-real-eye-opener/
― StanM, Friday, 1 December 2023 07:17 (nine months ago) link
Yup and there’s fair bit of non-album stuff - Haunted, Yeahx5, Rake at the Gates of Hell, trad versions and of course Jack’s Heroes.
The first thing of theirs I ever bought was the "Pair of Brown Eyes" 12-inch with "Whiskey You're the Devil" and "Muirshin Durkin" on the flip side.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 1 December 2023 16:03 (nine months ago) link
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/12/sleep-easy-shaneThis is very good.
― mojo dojo casas house (gyac), Friday, 1 December 2023 16:11 (nine months ago) link
yeah that was a+
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 December 2023 18:51 (nine months ago) link
I was all :rolleyes: at Fairytale of New York going to be played everywhere again, but you know what, it's still a great great song and let's get it to n°1 for Christmas.
― StanM, Friday, 1 December 2023 20:22 (nine months ago) link
otm
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 December 2023 22:16 (nine months ago) link
xposts I was struck by the line "Over the course of seven albums, The Pogues left an extraordinary imprint on British popular music."
Have they? Are there bands one would describe as influenced by the Pogues? I feel that the "imprint" of a group like the Clash remains greater, and probably broadly includes whatever influence the Pogues might have conveyed - the politics, the eclecticism, the attitude - but maybe I'm wrong. Sometimes I feel like the (at least sonically demonstrable) impact/imprint of the Pogues on American acts might be greater, but I'm happy to be corrected.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 1 December 2023 22:54 (nine months ago) link
Kaleb Horton:
https://www.gq.com/story/shane-macgowan-will-outlive-all-of-us
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 1 December 2023 22:55 (nine months ago) link
let's ask billy bragg
xp
Sorry to hear of the demise, after a long illness, of one of the greatest songwriters of my generation, Shane MacGowan. The Pogues reinvigorated folk music in the early 80s and his songs put the focus onto lyric writing, opening doors for the likes of myself and others.— Billy Bragg (@billybragg) November 30, 2023
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Friday, 1 December 2023 22:56 (nine months ago) link
fucking beautiful, Kaleb always nails it
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:01 (nine months ago) link
xpost That's a great example. Obviously I don't want to/can't contradict Billy, but is there anything he got from the Pogues that he did not get from the Clash (or other punk protest music)? I hear a lot of the Clash but I'm not hearing much of the Pogues in his stuff, though of course there is the Kirsty connection. Maybe it's the idea of the Pogues, sort of like the idea of Dylan. Countless bands are influenced by Dylan, whether they sound like him or not.
Anyway, what I'm half getting at is that the Pogues were pretty special (not unlike the Specials!) so their impact maybe contains multitudes. I'm curious to hear responses from those other than the usual suspects.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 1 December 2023 23:01 (nine months ago) link
I never found any band I liked as much as the Pogues bc the songwriting was just not as good or interesting. It’s like most of my favorite bands — people take bits and pieces but no one has the total alchemy. Billy Bragg probably the closest bc he was political and also vulnerably romantic. The Clash didn’t have that but Pogues did. At least in my mind.
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:07 (nine months ago) link
I should say I never found any Irish folk rock I liked as much as Pogues and lord knows I tried.
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:09 (nine months ago) link
The music of the pogues possesses this deep sadness that is so frequently coupled with this fervent resistance and strength in the face of the sadness and I've never really heard any music that does that as well
― omar little, Friday, 1 December 2023 23:09 (nine months ago) link
I gotta say, y'all amaze me. This place amazes me. I wasn't expecting so many un-ironic posts in praise of MacGowan. I like the Pogues without loving them -- they're before my time and my college station never played them, so I had to discoer Rum... on my own -- but I've played the first three albums a lot thanks to this thread.
― stuffing your suit pockets with cold, stale chicken tende (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:43 (nine months ago) link
i’ve been thinking about MacGowan’s abilities as a singer of covers, an interpreter i guess idkhis version of Nick Cave’s “Lucy”, for example he is able to adjust the levels of the original, where Nick is singing to the rafters & really pushing the drama; where MacGowan makes it so stripped down & plainspoken, that then makes the last lines “i’ll love her forever” etc so devastating also their duet of What a Wonderful World he stays so sweetly true to the original that his delivery feels so much more sincere, it kind of upstages Cave after his big intro
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:47 (nine months ago) link
like the perception of his delivery in general is overshadowed by his permanent state of drunkenness, but he has such a great talent for delivering the emotional essence of the lyrics with some quite subtle modulations imo lowkey genius
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:50 (nine months ago) link
plus the very rare ability to take a traditional ditty and make it vital.
how many versions of "dirty old town" are there? well there's only one that matters
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:52 (nine months ago) link
the band helps sure, but macgowan just completely inhabits the narrators of his songs
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Friday, 1 December 2023 23:53 (nine months ago) link
i'm kinda with josh i think you see a lot in america - dropkick murphys, the tossers, flogging molly (i'm not suggesting that these bands are remotely on the same planet as the pogues quality wise)
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 2 December 2023 00:03 (nine months ago) link
One song I was returning to this week a lot is one he didn't even write,"Thousands are Sailing"...sad and defiant and a raucous party, all at once. It's a beautiful one, made twice so bc of Shane.
― omar little, Saturday, 2 December 2023 00:13 (nine months ago) link
That song is so good. Along with (per Tipsy) "Lorelei." Band had a deep bench of songwriters.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 2 December 2023 01:13 (nine months ago) link
Yeah, “Thousands” is probably my favourite Pogues track, and altho the writing and playing is all top-tier, the way it hits me comes down to the way Shane gets behind the lyrics
― lethbridge-pfunkboy (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 2 December 2023 01:20 (nine months ago) link
I've been thinking about something I'd never really noticed - we call The Pogues prolific (~83-90) upthread but actually there are what maybe 30-odd actual MacGowan originals from those years that range from good to actually obliteratingly great, and it's some testament that off that songwriters with wide deep catalogues (eg Springsteen) just line up to say that he's an all-timer.
― woof, Saturday, 2 December 2023 01:29 (nine months ago) link
Re: Shane and the Pogues as interpreters, do we really need any other version of "The Irish Rover"?
(tbf, the best one is probably the one they did with the Dubliners)
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 2 December 2023 01:32 (nine months ago) link
Also - I watched the Julien Temple documentary tonight and whatever - great footage, too much mythologising, good interviews - but it's mystifying when you hit 'first song I wrote for The Pogues' and watch 'Streams of Whiskey' and it's just just… how? The gift.
― woof, Saturday, 2 December 2023 01:33 (nine months ago) link
didn't know Dylan was a massive fan
― stuffing your suit pockets with cold, stale chicken tende (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 2 December 2023 01:34 (nine months ago) link
on interpretation, imo yes always more Irish Rovers/Kittys/Poor Paddys/Galway Races/Waxies Dargles, as many as possible, keep that shit moving, have fun along the way, that's one of the lessons
― woof, Saturday, 2 December 2023 01:46 (nine months ago) link
Time to hear this again:
Rum Sodomy and the Lash poll
RIP
― Bee OK, Saturday, 2 December 2023 02:39 (nine months ago) link
xxpost jimbeaux otmtheir version of Irish Rover is definitive for me for sure! heard sooooo many renditions in my years tagging along w mum at irish music festival & this one is as rollicking as it gets <3
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 2 December 2023 02:50 (nine months ago) link
The bands that have an obvious Pogues influence take the wrong bits from The Pogues. The records are great because they somehow transcend the rowdiest and most maudlin parts that reel you in.
― bendy, Saturday, 2 December 2023 02:55 (nine months ago) link
i love their Rocky Road To Dublin too
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 2 December 2023 02:55 (nine months ago) link
Had not seen/heard this, lovely of course. Can’t believe we lost both of them this year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocjxFunwQNE
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 2 December 2023 03:05 (nine months ago) link
Also I’ve been glad to see so many people talk about him as a singer and interpreter in addition to his songwriting. He was a GREAT singer, at least when he wasn’t too slurry to get through. And even sometimes then. His phrasing, sure, the gravelly gravity of his voice, but the key is something more like heart, feeling, emotional resonance. He can hit the full range within one verse of a song, from love to grief to regret to knowing humor. There was nothing artless about it, he knew what notes he was aiming for musically and emotionally, and he could be as brash or subtle as the moment needed.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 2 December 2023 03:12 (nine months ago) link
Looks like that Carol Clerk "Kiss My Arse" book is ridiculously out of print and otherwise MIA.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 2 December 2023 03:15 (nine months ago) link
ugh i know i looked that up too! can’t even get it through inter-library loan :( :(
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 2 December 2023 03:23 (nine months ago) link
tipsy otmfm
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 2 December 2023 03:34 (nine months ago) link
Also I’ve been glad to see so many people talk about him as a singer and interpreter in addition to his songwriting. He was a GREAT singer, at least when he wasn’t too slurry to get through.
― bendy, Saturday, 2 December 2023 03:59 (nine months ago) link
Okay I may have said something about "Navigator" but then I thought about "A Pair of Brown Eyes."
I am not ready to listen to either one right now but they are out there if you want them.
― Iris Demented (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 2 December 2023 04:14 (nine months ago) link
I was so sad all day but “What A Wonderful World” was what truly set me bawling last night, absolute waterworks
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 2 December 2023 04:21 (nine months ago) link
This is a cool video, the band recording "Johnny Come Lately" with Steve Earle in 1988. Shane's clearly been sidelined and/or sidelined himself. Steve Lillywhite seems enthusiastic about the idea of people other than Shane stepping up. And this is the heart of Earle's cocaine years and seems like it. But it's still pretty awesome to see them all put a song together. It's a good tune, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK_TZY7pihU
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 2 December 2023 04:22 (nine months ago) link
one of my alltime favorite Steve Earle songs <3 <3
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 2 December 2023 05:31 (nine months ago) link
It's really f-ing sad that only a year ago, the two of them and Terry Hall were still with us. I knew they all had their struggles, physical and psychological, but it's still unbelievable that we'd lose all three so soon.
― birdistheword, Saturday, 2 December 2023 05:43 (nine months ago) link
Just gonna chime in to say that Shane's "I will not be reconstructed" from Sunny Side of the Street is such a powerful delivery... it's so immediate... as direct as music can get...
― m0stly clean (Slowsquatch), Saturday, 2 December 2023 07:20 (nine months ago) link
ha fascinating pogues/earle video-- he's an artist i never listened to, actually out of respect to him sorta. ain't my genre, i bring too much luggage, he has always seemed cool basically, it's been like...that's enough.
― digital chirping and whirring (Hunt3r), Saturday, 2 December 2023 15:52 (nine months ago) link
i LOVE that Steve Earle song -- there is a similarity between him and Shane in my mind because both seemed like real honest to goodness romantics. Fuckups for sure, but hearts of gold. It's a characteristic I responded to a lot when I was younger and I could never really put my finger on it. It's definitely real though.
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Saturday, 2 December 2023 16:13 (nine months ago) link
poll: who’s more authentic than shane macgowan?
― digital chirping and whirring (Hunt3r), Saturday, 2 December 2023 18:34 (nine months ago) link
just as an aside if anyone wants to make a difficult music quiz: link Sonic Youth & The Pogues
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Tetras
― StanM, Saturday, 2 December 2023 19:25 (nine months ago) link