The Pogues: Classic or Dud

like the perception of his delivery in general is overshadowed by his permanent state of drunkenness, but he has such a great talent for delivering the emotional essence of the lyrics with some quite subtle modulations imo

lowkey genius

plus the very rare ability to take a traditional ditty and make it vital.

how many versions of "dirty old town" are there? well there's only one that matters

the band helps sure, but macgowan just completely inhabits the narrators of his songs

i'm kinda with josh i think you see a lot in america - dropkick murphys, the tossers, flogging molly (i'm not suggesting that these bands are remotely on the same planet as the pogues quality wise)

One song I was returning to this week a lot is one he didn't even write,"Thousands are Sailing"...sad and defiant and a raucous party, all at once. It's a beautiful one, made twice so bc of Shane.

That song is so good. Along with (per Tipsy) "Lorelei." Band had a deep bench of songwriters.

Yeah, “Thousands” is probably my favourite Pogues track, and altho the writing and playing is all top-tier, the way it hits me comes down to the way Shane gets behind the lyrics

I've been thinking about something I'd never really noticed - we call The Pogues prolific (~83-90) upthread but actually there are what maybe 30-odd actual MacGowan originals from those years that range from good to actually obliteratingly great, and it's some testament that off that songwriters with wide deep catalogues (eg Springsteen) just line up to say that he's an all-timer.

Re: Shane and the Pogues as interpreters, do we really need any other version of "The Irish Rover"?

(tbf, the best one is probably the one they did with the Dubliners)

Also - I watched the Julien Temple documentary tonight and whatever - great footage, too much mythologising, good interviews - but it's mystifying when you hit 'first song I wrote for The Pogues' and watch 'Streams of Whiskey' and it's just just… how? The gift.

didn't know Dylan was a massive fan

on interpretation, imo yes always more Irish Rovers/Kittys/Poor Paddys/Galway Races/Waxies Dargles, as many as possible, keep that shit moving, have fun along the way, that's one of the lessons

Time to hear this again:

Rum Sodomy and the Lash poll

RIP

xxpost jimbeaux otm
their version of Irish Rover is definitive for me for sure! heard sooooo many renditions in my years tagging along w mum at irish music festival & this one is as rollicking as it gets <3

The bands that have an obvious Pogues influence take the wrong bits from The Pogues. The records are great because they somehow transcend the rowdiest and most maudlin parts that reel you in.

i love their Rocky Road To Dublin too

Had not seen/heard this, lovely of course. Can’t believe we lost both of them this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocjxFunwQNE

Also I’ve been glad to see so many people talk about him as a singer and interpreter in addition to his songwriting. He was a GREAT singer, at least when he wasn’t too slurry to get through. And even sometimes then. His phrasing, sure, the gravelly gravity of his voice, but the key is something more like heart, feeling, emotional resonance. He can hit the full range within one verse of a song, from love to grief to regret to knowing humor. There was nothing artless about it, he knew what notes he was aiming for musically and emotionally, and he could be as brash or subtle as the moment needed.

Looks like that Carol Clerk "Kiss My Arse" book is ridiculously out of print and otherwise MIA.

ugh i know i looked that up too! can’t even get it through inter-library loan :( :(

tipsy otmfm

Also I’ve been glad to see so many people talk about him as a singer and interpreter in addition to his songwriting. He was a GREAT singer, at least when he wasn’t too slurry to get through.

Okay I may have said something about "Navigator" but then I thought about "A Pair of Brown Eyes."

I am not ready to listen to either one right now but they are out there if you want them.

I was so sad all day but “What A Wonderful World” was what truly set me bawling last night, absolute waterworks

This is a cool video, the band recording "Johnny Come Lately" with Steve Earle in 1988. Shane's clearly been sidelined and/or sidelined himself. Steve Lillywhite seems enthusiastic about the idea of people other than Shane stepping up. And this is the heart of Earle's cocaine years and seems like it. But it's still pretty awesome to see them all put a song together. It's a good tune, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK_TZY7pihU

one of my alltime favorite Steve Earle songs <3 <3

Had not seen/heard this, lovely of course. Can’t believe we lost both of them this year.

It's really f-ing sad that only a year ago, the two of them and Terry Hall were still with us. I knew they all had their struggles, physical and psychological, but it's still unbelievable that we'd lose all three so soon.

Just gonna chime in to say that Shane's "I will not be reconstructed" from Sunny Side of the Street is such a powerful delivery... it's so immediate... as direct as music can get...

RIP

ha fascinating pogues/earle video-- he's an artist i never listened to, actually out of respect to him sorta. ain't my genre, i bring too much luggage, he has always seemed cool basically, it's been like...that's enough.

i LOVE that Steve Earle song -- there is a similarity between him and Shane in my mind because both seemed like real honest to goodness romantics. Fuckups for sure, but hearts of gold. It's a characteristic I responded to a lot when I was younger and I could never really put my finger on it. It's definitely real though.

poll: who’s more authentic than shane macgowan?

just as an aside if anyone wants to make a difficult music quiz: link Sonic Youth & The Pogues

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Tetras

I’ve had Jamie Stewart sobbing “I never got my degree, chachi / I never played in The Pogues” in my head these past days :(

I used to see Shane way back when, particularly in a record shop in Hanway Street. (I only just 'discovered' he 'worked' there, the number of times he looked more like he was hanging out with mates..)

Anyway, he was a face on the scene pre-pogues, and he did various bands that had plenty of enthusiasm behind them and when Pogue Machine first started it did seem at first it was fuelled by "I can do that" more than actual insight. But no, something had clicked into place right then. Suddenly, all this genius was right there!

There have been plenty of songwriter/performers who's early stuff, while not terrible, were clearly not quite there but had some sort of germ of what came after. I can't think of any who blossomed in quite the way Shane did.

I doubt he'll have the big posthumous surge in respect that Amy Winehouse got, but at least he got it while he was alive.

Anyway, there you go.

Still stand by what I wrote in this thread, uhhh, TWENTY years ago. Only I don't believe it was hyperbolic enough.

Kind of shocked to discover there's no "collected lyrics" type book for Shane, aside from an out-of-print 1990 volume that goes for hundreds of dollars now. Maybe in the next couple years. I'm generally never interested in books like that but Shane is one of the few exceptions for me, one of the best to ever do it. Mark G otm, glad he got his flowers while he was here.

Also I’ve been glad to see so many people talk about him as a singer and interpreter in addition to his songwriting. He was a GREAT singer, at least when he wasn’t too slurry to get through. And even sometimes then. His phrasing, sure, the gravelly gravity of his voice, but the key is something more like heart, feeling, emotional resonance. He can hit the full range within one verse of a song, from love to grief to regret to knowing humor. There was nothing artless about it, he knew what notes he was aiming for musically and emotionally, and he could be as brash or subtle as the moment needed.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, December 1, 2023 9:12 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Something that has struck me, esp listening to RS&L is just how much care and inflection he puts on certain words and syllables to convey whatever it is he is trying put across.

For some reason the way his voice retreats into something closer to his speaking tone and then cuts off at the end of "Old Main Drag" just kills me every time.

Yeah, he was definitely one of the best bad singers. Like, even when he wasn't singing well, he brought something essential.

I wish I knew how to do that - be simultaneously bad and good at something.

Still stand by what I wrote in this thread, uhhh, TWENTY years ago.

listening to podcasts that included a lot of strummer commentary, i had just sorta forgot the long duration of his role with em, before macgowan left. that sounds like a fucking night

Strummer was a completely different kind of person and musician. I have never understood that shift, given that people like Luka Bloom were available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi2JEdKwzAI

fortune prevailing!
across the western ocean
their bellies full
their spirits free
they'll break the chains of poverty
and they'll dance!

#ShaneMacGowan #Dublin
Rest in peace Shane. Thank you for the music, the punk and poetry. pic.twitter.com/kgyWfhvmT8

— Son of Mick (@PH5271) December 8, 2023

Heard some BBC coverage of people gathering for the funeral, sounds like quite a send-off.

This is the real Dublin ❤️‍🔥

So long Shane 🙏#ShaneMacGowan pic.twitter.com/YxZtmXxxI2

— Fergal Burke (@fergaljburke) December 8, 2023

it seems quite mad that his funeral is being shown live on bbc, especially with his wife talking about how he took 100 acid tabs a day!

most bonkers funeral ever. fantastic.

The immanent psychiatrist, Irvin Yalom, said, “each of us creates-—often without our conscious intent or knowledge—concentric circles of influence that may affect others for years, even generations. That is, the effect we have on other people is in turn passed on to others, much as the ripples in a pond go on and on until they’re no longer visible but continuing at a nano level.” Dr. Yalom calls this idea that our own influence can ripple out to others rippling. Yalom says rippling is “leaving behind something from your life experience; some trait; some piece of wisdom, guidance, virtue, comfort, that passes onto others, known or unknown.” Rippling is the idea that that people continue to exist through the impact they have had on others. Yalom suggests everyone has the potential to affect others for years, decades and even centuries after departing this earth.

Glen Hansard and Lisa O'Neill performed "Fairytale of New York" to close Shane MacGowan's funeral today.pic.twitter.com/bG7mCSusmC

— CONSEQUENCE (@consequence) December 8, 2023

R.I.P. Shane MacGowan
Here is Nick Cave performing 'A Rainy Night in Soho' at Shane's funeral in Nenagh, Co Tipperary, on Friday afternoon #ShaneMacGowan 💙pic.twitter.com/7BXaAp1CyP

— 🎶Paul Lewis - Wycombe Gigs (@wycombegigs) December 8, 2023