THis is a thread where you try and remember the soulless pap from the eighties

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Wow.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

European, European and absolutely nothing but European music

What, like gypsy folk music?!?

― Gatinha (rwillmsen), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

"takes one hundred per cent of its influences from European, European and absolutely nothing but European music" - well, there goes Tin Pan Alley (and, oh yeah, the Beatles)

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Your Eurocentrism points to the fact that you actually don't love music at all Geir and it's very, very worrying... By the way, is there any music which is 100 per cent European - I think not.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Your Eurocentrism points to the fact that you actually don't love music at all Geir and it's very, very worrying...

I love music, and music is European. Music was invented in Ancient Greece. What was before that wasn't called "music" by those who created it, and thus it wasn't music

By the way, is there any music which is 100 per cent European - I think not.

As long as the melodic and harmonic qualities of European music remains untouched, it doesn't matter whether other things are added in addition. There is nothing wrong with a drum pulse as long as it is kept in the background and doesn't disturbe the overall total dominance of the melody and its belonging harmonies.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Geir - you admit your outlook is losing the war thought right? why is this?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

war though rather

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

I love music, and music is European. Music was invented in Ancient Greece. What was before that wasn't called "music" by those who created it, and thus it wasn't music

You are mad... plenty of things didn't have European names until they were given to them. It doesn't mean they didn't exist before then...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Music didn't exist before the Ancient times. Music was actually calculated by maths experts, and is entirely based on the calculations done by those guys.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Take astronomy for example... the reason things have European names is... now get this great conceptual leap... because we live here or live in countries where European languages dominate and that's what we call them!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Music didn't exist before the Ancient times. Music was actually calculated by maths experts, and is entirely based on the calculations done by those guys.

Absolute total bilge... music has been with us near enough forever

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

All organized noise isn't music. Music is by definition based on those systems invented by those ancient guys. The noises people made in the stone age had nothing to do with music.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

name names Geir (unless ur fruntin per usual)

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

neverminding how much of 'greek thought' originates in africa

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm not bothered by the rap groups being listed (I mean, I knew that was coming) but I'm irritated that Poison gets listed. Poison were great. Bon Jovi without the bloat. Aerosmith for kids. Yeeha! Great singalong potential there. Mel-o-dee. He'd love the songs if the Osmonds did them.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pythagoras (dunno if that is the correct English spelling) was definitely among those who worked with this. He may not have been the first one, but he was the one that was closest to the harmony system still used in the West today.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

He'd love the songs if the Osmonds did them.

I don't like Osmonds either. Those guys weren't melodically and harmonically sophisticated enough.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

euripides weren't no mathmetician

he still won't answer the question of why his side is losing

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

and who else validates this absolute, categoric statement of fact? (apart from hitler, that is)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

geir - couldn't your argument be extrapolated further in that music not only must = european, but more specifically must = greek, and that anything that deviates from greek thought and mathematics isn't music, ergo the beatles (with those overwhelming chuck berry and motown influences, when they weren't copping from broadway) = not music, music = xenakis?

and why is your side losing the war?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Melody is losing because people have finally found a way to make money without having any musical talent.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Beatles used all of the melodic and harmonic qualities found in European music. That they added a little bit of rhythm in addition didn't harm their music as long as the rhythm was being kept in the background.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

so what - the technology was just made available to them? what happened? talentless people are JUST NOW making money in music?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

why is the audience turning it's back on you?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Beatles used all of the melodic and harmonic qualities found in European music. That they added a little bit of rhythm in addition didn't harm their music as long as the rhythm was being kept in the background.

I think you have totally lost the argument here. Beatles rhythms were often quite ferocious, particularly when they were at their best...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

< NON-EUROPEAN FOREIGNER ACCENT >Ahhhh, I sheet on yorrr Bee-dulls! I sheeeet on yorrr Rollin-gah Stonssss! I sheeeeeeeet on yorrr Ro-bart Deeeellll-uunnnnn. PTTTO! May the peeeessss of a tousand camels foul your taboule, Eeeeeenfidel!< NON-EUROPEAN FOREIGNER ACCENT >

― Sheik Mamhoud Custos ibn-Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

so what - the technology was just made available to them? what happened?

Technology is actually a keywoard here

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Technology is actually a keywoard here

Why? State your case...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

< NON-EUROPEAN FOREIGNER ACCENT >OFRA HAZA ROXOR, U R ALL EEEENFIDELS!< /NON-EUROPEAN FOREIGNER ACCENT >

― Sheik Mamhoud Custos ibn-Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Geir - again, in no less than let's say 200 words (cuz I've never seen you actually make an argument, just repeat the same thesis over and over, like a broken magic 8 ball you can ask him any question and get the same response), explain why "music" (my definition) turned it's back on "music" (your definition) and why the audience increasingly prefers my definition to yours. Use specific examples (more specific than namechecking genres, specific records). I wonder if you can. and, by your definition, why isn't Xenakis far superior to the Beatles?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

that's what I thought.

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Someone please club Geir with a sizeable frozen sea bass.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

Technology has made it easy for people without any kind of musical skills to make things that sounds like "music" to untrained musical ears. Examples of technologies that are being used for this are sampling, DJing, and also synths and sequencers. The repetitiveness in dance music comes from using sequencers (and computer programs that are based on the same principles) repeating the same pattern over and over. This is something that anybody with some knowledge of technology is able to do.

In the past, if you wanted to become a musician, you had to start playing and listening already in your childhood. Now you may suddenly, as a teenager, despite having had a scant music interest during your childhoos, decide "I want to make music", and actually, you manage to make something that may sound like music to untrained musical ears.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

you still didn't answer my question

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

As for Xenakis Vs. The Beatles. They used the same harmonic system anyway (one that was originally invented by the Greeks, but which also went through a considerable change when the full-tempered keyboard arrived in the 18th century). And I would say The Beatles are more harmonically sophisticated within that, already existing, system than most others are.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

The audiences seems to prefer this kind of music because they like to piss of parents and teachers. A typical sosiological (and rather pathetic) thing that has nothing to do with music anyway.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

people didn't like to piss off their parents in the sixties, forties, 1800s? why is the audience turning it's back on you NOW?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

People liked to piss off their parents in the 60s. But by then, their parents were still old-fashioned enough to be pissed off by stuff that was actually great music.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

But surely technological advances were at the heart of those mathematically inspired Ancient theories, meaning that all they did was change the way music was made/perceived. These are simply examples of music's evolution and you refuse to see the validity of one while droning on about the virtues of another. This is little short of hypocrisy and it fits in with an overall view that barely skirts racism as far as I can see.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Now, along comes these late 80s hip-hop-acts and dance acts making stuff that contains no melodies are all. They are originally seen as some kind of a novelty, but then, the kids discover that older generations actually hate it, which they think is cool and they start enjoying that stuff a lot, because they have this pathetic need to be different from older generations.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

But surely technological advances were at the heart of those mathematically inspired Ancient theories, meaning that all they did was change the way music was made/perceived.

They didn't change music, they invented music. Important difference.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

Music cannot be rascist, because music doesn't have a skin colour.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

Geir, Pythagoras also thought beans were "evil."

― hstencil, Monday, 21 April 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

They didn't change music, they invented music. Important difference.

An important misconception on your part Geir and total balderdash

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

When a black act, such as for instance Stevie Wonder, makes typically "white" (as classified by those who like putting skin colour of music) music, he actually manages to come up with a lot of great stuff.

On the other hand, when for instance Eminem or Beastie Boys makes typically "black" music, their music is not any better than what black acts have come up with within the same genres.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Music cannot be rascist, because music doesn't have a skin colour.

But critiques of it can and if this is the case then why does music have to be European in your view?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ever heard of cultural imperialism Geir?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Geir, why is hiphop more popular now, when it's less likely to pissoff parents, then it was during the eighties? and will you ever actually answer my questions?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 21 April 2003 20:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Geir, why is hiphop more popular now, when it's less likely to pissoff parents, then it was during the eighties?

Hip-hop is more likely to piss off parents now that it has become dominant and threatening to more melodic forms.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 21:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Geir, read this. Pythagoras did not invent music, he codified what humans knew for centuries, namely that there was a mathematical relationship to sound.

― hstencil, Monday, 21 April 2003 21:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

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