Is pop as "disposable" as people say that it is supposed to be?

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"This song is great, and I don't even care that I won't remember it (or hate it) in 6 weeks." Is that a built-in defense of inherently forgettable music, or does the fact that something is designed for a momentary high make it good? Is a pop song that "stands the test of time" still pop?

Furthermore, is pop's transience inherently pop? In non-pop styles of music, isn't a short shelf-life considered a bad thing? And -- ok, I'll stop there.

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:27 (twenty-three years ago)

thats the paradox. pop isnt disposable at all, but long lasting. pop is very time and place (its supposed lack of substance means that instead of being 'great art in itself' it is tied to real life, to events, to us, this means it continues, lives on, when the 'great art' has been forgotten)

gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

"This song is great, and I don't even care that I won't remember it (or hate it) in 6 weeks." Is that a built-in defense of inherently forgettable music, or does the fact that something is designed for a momentary high make it good?

I'm not a fan of planned obsolesence, but I would guess that someone who'd answer that way would say both. Actually, I'm not sure what you're asking there.

Is a pop song that "stands the test of time" still pop?

Sure. Pop can mean a lot of things, but most things that "stand the test of time" would fall under the literal definition of pop as "popular" (i.e. people still listen to it, know it, etc.).

Furthermore, is pop's transience inherently pop?

I'm not sure that there's something built into music that makes it inherently transient. It's probably more that culture and technology are always changing, more than anything, and what was "cool" two decades ago may not be now (or as an adjunct: what was "cool" two decades ago is "cool" again because of recognition that the style has dated). Music itself, while a pretty much open system, hasn't really changed so much as the ways and whys and wherefores.

In non-pop styles of music, isn't a short shelf-life considered a bad thing?

Depends. I'd bet that a lot of the creators of what we now call "classical" music didn't think that people would know their music hundreds of years later (although how we know their music is in a pretty radically different form/context, thanks again to technology). A composer writing a piece for, say, a specific commission may not have thought that the piece had a shelf-life beyond its commission.

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not sure that there's something built into music that makes it inherently transient.

I'm not sure either. But then I often hear people describing pop as "candy" or being like "sugar" -- sugar is something than can give you a momentary high, and quickly bring you down lower than you started. Is there not some truth that songwriters have ways of synthesizing that effect with music?

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:54 (twenty-three years ago)

"sugar" -- sugar is something than can give you a momentary high, and quickly bring you down lower than you started.

That sounds more like booger sugar (see disco).

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm sure they do, but since when did authorial intention matter, even in terms of synthesizing narcotics?

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Is there not some truth that songwriters have ways of synthesizing that effect with music?

That's getting into some pretty wacky territory, if you ask me. The elation I can feel from hearing music is way different from, like, having too many Cocoa Puffs.

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Really though maybe the disposability comes more from the format. Only a small percentage of the people enjoying pop actually own it. Most just enjoy hearing it on the radio, MTV, BET, etc. Disposability is a must w/ these formats, b/c they have to go on to something new. The people that actually buy and own a lot of music and fetishize that part of it, need to think that it’s going to last to justify the investment. People who just click on the radio have to deal with the fact that the radio moves on.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 18:01 (twenty-three years ago)

...the radio moves on.

What about oldies stations then? Is what they play not pop music?

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know if sugar and pop works as a good analogy -- but it is something I've heard and read. You even hear people say "this music will give you cavities". If not like sugar, what is it about pop that provokes people (mostly detractors, though I have heard people defend it on the same grounds) to say that is "disposable"? Maybe I'm reading too many U2 press releases.

On second thought, I've never read a single U2 press release.

On third thought, Mark posted just as I wrote the above, rendering my questions completely disposable!

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Really though maybe the disposability comes more from the format. Only a small percentage of the people enjoying pop actually own it. Most just enjoy hearing it on the radio, MTV, BET, etc. Disposability is a must w/ these formats, b/c they have to go on to something new. The people that actually buy and own a lot of music and fetishize that part of it, need to think that it’s going to last to justify the investment. People who just click on the radio have to deal with the fact that the radio moves on.

Exactly. And that's the attraction of the format too. But the flipside is that with the current state of radio, you see Matchbox 20 charting with "Push" two or three years after its release. It's not an attempt to fetishize it either, it's wanting to keep things safe. This has dropped pop's stature even more: It's not even flavor of the week, or however some would like to characterize it -- it's flavor of the decade. And I think that this has helped move more listeners to country and hip-hop. Those formats in particular (thinking BET, CMT and radio) have very little sense of history, or, if there is one, it is purposely ignored. While rock is still forced to worship at the altar of Rolling Stones/Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/Nirvana/Pearl Jam, etc., hip-hop is more like a carousel, bringing to mind Chris Rock's jest: "Here today, gone today." I mean, Skee-Lo gets no airplay on hip-hop stations, yet Seven Mary Three still gets 20 or so spins a week on rock stations.

Yancey (ystrickler), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 18:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I think good pop is always "disposable" in that every time you listen to it might be the second or last time you enjoy it that much.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

What does the glitter fade faster from good pop, Tom?

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 24 October 2002 00:52 (twenty-three years ago)

it is on plastic = it is forever!

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 24 October 2002 04:57 (twenty-three years ago)

ornette coleman's sax is made of plastic!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:16 (twenty-three years ago)

ornette coleman = pop!

d k (d k), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:27 (twenty-three years ago)


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