is Some Justice a bootleg?

as in funky drummer vs someday?

it just samples "someday", surely?

yes i think there's a clear enough distinction between whats a bootleg and whats a sample-reliant track yet a song in its own right...Mickey Finn & Aphrodite added enough elements of their own (the killer sub-bass and synth notes, additional samples - where DID that '"Every posse and crew out there the future is before your eyes" line come from anyway?) to distiguish it from bootlegs i think

that said, what about The Source 'U Got The Love' - sampled music, sampled vocal entirely - the only thing they did was EQ things and do that nice snipper effect with the vocals at the end...as far as i can recall ALL of the music came straight from Jamie Principle's 'Your Love' - yet this was an official/cleared release and ten years before 'Freak Like Me'!

i would definitely agree that tracks like 'Some Justice' and most Fatboy Slim tracks (as an example) are not too far removed from your average bootleg - tho thats not to take anything away from them in terms of artistic merit - after all i suspect many people would rather listen to 'SOme Justice' rather than the Ce Ce Rogers original, likewise choose Fatboy Slim over Camille Yardborough, the Just Brothers or whoever else he pilfers gratuituously from

that said, what about The Source 'U Got The Love'?

but that WAS a bootleg - it's even subtitled 'eren's bootleg mix'.

So in that case, the entire output of most hip hop artists are bootlegs right?

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels was clearly a bootie - remember that'n? Armand's Tori Amos mix with Lisa Stansfield over the top. Straight rip.

the only real difference lies in what you add to what you're sampling...even if its other samples or composed of them - you might as well say all of 'Endtroducing' is a bootleg because its all samples - but that seems pointless, esp. if you're trying to insinuate that the bootleg tag lowers the value/merit of these tracks artistically...

the definition is simple and intuitive - mix an acapella over a different instrumental and you have what we now call a bootleg (or mash-up)...compose an entire album out of carefully edited/re-constructed samples and you have a masterpiece ala 'Endtroducing' or 'The Parker Tapes'...somewhere inbetween is 99% of all dance music (including hip hop) and 'SOme Justice' falls into that quite comfortably

regarding 'U Got The Love' i dont remember much fuss being made about the legality of this track at the time...they had to credit Candi Staton prominently but why not Jamie Principle? who got the most royalties? is it because the label that released it already owned the copyright for the Staton original anyway?

jamie principal doesn't often get credited for "your love" never mind anything else.

for the record, i think some justice is one of the greatest records ever (and far better than either someday or funky drummer). i see nothing but merit in it. i was curious, not because it relies on samples particularly, but on on two records, rather like many bootlegs.

it also begs the question, bootlegs could do something similar, add other things in on top.

in a strange way i think hell interfaces version of trapped as a bootleg, because it sounds like the original is trapped (ha! see what i did there?) in this framework and is unable to escape (unlike a v/vm, kid606 type thing where they just put noise/glitch on top and then crow loudly)

but the 'funky drummer' loop has been changed considerably on 'some justice' - it sounds more like a variant of FD anyway - i'm not absolutely sure thats where they got it from...the final snare has that enormous punch to it - where did that come from?

lots of bootlegs out there DO extend the concept - 'Marshall's Been DOne To Death' is an example of changing the music regularly whilst retaining the vocal element... basic extension of the theme...that one that goes something like 'I Like To Move The Sexiest Peaches In Jamaica' is another example...and DJ SPec's 'Intagalaktrix' did the same thing in pitting the Beastie Boys against about 5 or 6 different soundtracks at progressive stages of the mix...these are basically micromixes (NEW PSUEDO-GENRE ALERT) that compliment the atypical eclectic longform mix produced by various DJs and producers on a regular basis (Avalanches, 2 Many DJs, Basement Jaxx etc.)

btw did you ever hear the '95 remix of 'some justice' - more junglist beats (3 years later you see) with that Arsonist MC toasting over it and goin 'Arsssonist!' not really an improvement on the original and barely a compliment either - nice hoover line tho

lets not forget dance producers have been taking acapellas and writing whole new tracks over them for some time...its a fundamental method. Black Box 'Ride On Time' and all that...

the sample collage has been around since Grandmaster Flash of course (if not before)

and the likes of COldcut went the other way and added fresh new vocals over their sample collages* e.g. 'Doctorin The House'

*should it be collage or montage or something else?

"sample fest"

ever hear that missy / roy davis jnr boot of lickshots / gabrielle - possibly the best i've ever heard still regularly play it

the difference bewteen a "bootleg mix" and "sampling" is one of intent.
i.e.
- most "sampling types" don't want you to really know where the cuts/samples came from. (well the good stuff)
- bootlegers rely on the opposite notion. they want you to know.

otherwise- same old bullshit...

The only difference between a "bootleg" and "sampling" is the legality, period.

there are now more bootlegs than people who have ever lived...and thats just the missy elliott ones