How do you feel when you just 'don't get it ' ?

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Time and time again I've read posts where (X) has said something along the lines of "(Y) is classic", while (Z) has replied by saying that, regardless of how many musical eggheads think it is classic, they just DON'T GET IT. Sometimes they do this belligerently - as if to say 'well so fucking what !', and sometimes with a panting apology as to their inability to get what is clearly blindingly obvious to the select few.

So, how does it make you feel ? What artists/albums/songs haven't you 'got' ?

― Darren, Saturday, 26 October 2002 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

when ppl say its classic and leave it at that then that poster can be classified as 'bananas'. the point is to explain why you like it, to articulate it. and that, to me, is enough.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 26 October 2002 17:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course, ILM sacred cows get the most brownie points here, as if that wasn't obvious already.

For my part, I have never managed to 'get' The Fall. Ok, so he's clever. But .. And I tried really hard but could never 'get' Bob Dylan at all. I mean, so what ? Read the poems, if you must ..

(But this isn't meant to be a variation of Classic or Dud - I have no doubt that the Zimster is classic to loads of cool and taste-heavy people. I just DON'T GET IT.)

― Darren, Saturday, 26 October 2002 17:58 (twenty-three years ago)

There's a certain temperament to Dylan fans -- and I see the same temperament in people who are really into food -- it's a rabid curiosity, a fascination with unlikely combinations, a sense of traditionalism that sees the fun and humor in those old traditions, a willingness to find even the most mundane things somewhat profound and poetic, but never too much so. Pop music fans are generally not Dylan fans -- I'm the exception.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 26 October 2002 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

good songwriter but you really only need the elctric stuff on live 66 (though the acoustic set id nice too).

jbr- dylan was pop music.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 26 October 2002 18:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Kid A and Amnesiac.

― Manny Parsons (Rahul Kamath), Saturday, 26 October 2002 20:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I was trying to "get" Scott Walker's "Tilt". It was recommended to me by someone who's taste I respect yet I just couldn't take it. Abrasive music is no problem for me(I am fan of This Heat,The Pop Group, Teenage Jesus & the Jerks, etc.) yet this record was pointlessly abrasive & tuneless.I could find nothing in it to like. But that was just my take on it, if enough people talk about an album and it sounds intriguing, I'll give it a listen. But I don't judge myself by the music I like(which is problem for those who feel inadequate because they dislike the fall or any particular band).

― Juan Marquez, Saturday, 26 October 2002 20:33 (twenty-three years ago)

i think there is a fundamental difference between people in how they express and react to the "just don't get it feeling". some are sheepish, some are defiant, some kind of shrug. i think it has to do with how comfortable you are with the simple fact that no one person can appreciate everything of value. you can have an open mind, an "it's all good" philosophy, but the fact of the matter is you can't connect with it all. but some people have had the taste police beat the idea of "good" taste/music into their heads that they just can't reconcile more ambiguous differences of opinion so easily.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 26 October 2002 20:37 (twenty-three years ago)

good songwriter but you really only need the elctric stuff on live 66 (though the acoustic set id nice too).

This is so not true I don't even know where to start. But this isn't a Dylan thread.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 26 October 2002 21:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Let me come down on the side of Julio -- only to add that you really don't need either set. (Not entirely snarkily = Dylan as songwriter has led to a series of wonderful cover versions here there and everywhere I actually rather enjoy; Dylan as performer, psuedo-mystic and allegedly self-aware humorist -- utterly fucking TEDIOUS, a supposedly upsetting but secretly comfortable buzz/whine in the ear that doesn't make me hate his targets but makes me hate him *and* his targets).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 26 October 2002 21:23 (twenty-three years ago)

There's a difference between "not getting" and "not liking" something. For instance, I really don't like the Beach Boys that much, but I think I get them, i.e. I think I understand what it is that makes other people love them, but it doesn't work on me, or it's not to my taste or something.

Patti Smith (specifically 'Horses') is someone I just don't get. Superficially, she is to my taste (female vocals, abrasive but tuneful music, poetic lyrics), but, though I've listened to 'Horses' loads of times - for a whole weekend once - I can't see what's so good about the record. I don't hear decent tunes, or an interesting voice, and the lyrics don't register with me at all. The reason I've heard the damn record so many times is that I've always been convinced I would suddenly love it if I could only find the "right way" to listen to it.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 26 October 2002 21:30 (twenty-three years ago)

It makes me feel static when the whole world is whooshing by.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 26 October 2002 21:32 (twenty-three years ago)

It's just a difference in musical tastes. Different people like different music for different reasons; hell, different people like the same music for different reasons.

― Curtis Stephens, Saturday, 26 October 2002 21:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I was just thinking the other day that I "don't get" Fennesz's Endless Summer -- or more precisely, I don't understand how people seem to have been so blown away by it. Its language doesn't feel incomprehensible -- it's not like the approach itself is a closed book to me...

― Phil (phil), Sunday, 27 October 2002 05:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I certainly enjoy Endless Summer, wouldn't call myself blown away per se -- more of an impact than Sigur Ros, less than, I dunno, Aphex or MBV. It's an interesting album to bring up in this discussion, though...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 October 2002 05:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Isn't there a certain amount of discretion involved when you've heard something being praised alot? I mean you can either listen to it and try to like it, or you can decide you don't get it and become irritated before even listening.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 27 October 2002 05:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I have a hard time appreciating a lot of jazz. I just don't think I'm hearing what other people are hearing there.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 27 October 2002 07:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I had this so badly with the Flaming Groovies. When Duane reads this he'll be thinking 'Oh God no, not this again.' I've pestered him a thousand times with questions about the Flaming Groovies trying to penetrate the secret of their to-me-mysterious respect. Finally one day we were walking through a cemetery and he said, 'Oh, okay, look, they're not that good, it's a kind of a camp thing.' But I still don't even know whether he was being serious or just giving in to my endless pestering. So can anyone tell me whether the Flaming Groovies are truly good or not? Or is it all just a joke that I don't get? Then I will be very grateful.

― maryann, Sunday, 27 October 2002 07:36 (twenty-three years ago)

First thing you have to understand is that they're the Flamin' Groovies. That apostrophe makes all the difference in the world.

"Shake Some Action" is one of my top 15 favorite songs ever, but I'm not really sure why. Um. Maybe it's the shimmering guitar arpeggios; maybe it's "If you don't dig what I say / Then I will go away," which to my ears is pure dumbass surf-goon perfection.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 27 October 2002 07:43 (twenty-three years ago)

JB Rosen - I totally respect your opinion, just like I respect Duane's. But now I'm going to start pestering you too. For example, when they say, 'If you don't dig what I say/Then I will go away,' I think it sounds like the song's going to stop all the time. It's like 'If you (pause, sounds as if songs going to stop through lack of impetus) don't dig (same wandering pause) what I say ...' It sounds like it's getting quieter and quieter even though it never really does. Whereas if you listen to The Seeds or the Stooges or whatever, it always sounds like it's getting impercebtibly louder! Or, I guess what I'm saying is, it has impetus. I mean, if you consider the guitar licks at the end of the phrases in 'Can't seem to make you mine,' for example. It's also a rhythmic thing - like, the 'correct' use of the Bo Diddley rhythm?? But then Duane always made the point, well, FG aren't like those bands, they're more a 70s homage band. So it's all different. But then I say, 'so, they sound like the Rolling Stones doing a version of Satisfaction in the 80s.' And he says 'no'! And I have to admit they don't. BLA BLA BLA.

― maryann, Sunday, 27 October 2002 09:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I've never been blown away by Sleater-Kinney even though they're loved by many people generally have good taste. I could never play Call the Doctor through and through. The lyrics are great, but the music sounds half-assed and the singer's voice is grating. Inspite of it all, I still feel like that I'll someday like them.

― Micheline Gros-Jean (Micheline), Sunday, 27 October 2002 10:21 (twenty-three years ago)

''Patti Smith (specifically 'Horses') is someone I just don't get. Superficially, she is to my taste (female vocals, abrasive but tuneful music, poetic lyrics), but, though I've listened to 'Horses' loads of times - for a whole weekend once - I can't see what's so good about the record. I don't hear decent tunes, or an interesting voice, and the lyrics don't register with me at all. The reason I've heard the damn record so many times is that I've always been convinced I would suddenly love it if I could only find the "right way" to listen to it.''

I didn't like this one either but well done for staying the whole weekend with it. I have FAR less patience (i don't neeed to luv something but if there's nothing to like by the second listen then it goes to the 'to be taken to second hand store' pile).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 October 2002 10:50 (twenty-three years ago)

''This is so not true I don't even know where to start. But this isn't a Dylan thread.''

hehe...I have to say that his studio acoustic stuff isn't that good. there is a clean' nature to his sound. I'd like it if it didn't sound so damn polished. i wish the sound quality on those recs was poor and then it could have got interesting.

when jbr put the words 'profound' and 'poetic' two stupid brane cells rubbed against one another and came up with: 'yes, women do like 'dark poetic' men'.

ned- good point abt cover versions.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 October 2002 10:55 (twenty-three years ago)

''I was just thinking the other day that I "don't get" Fennesz's Endless Summer -- or more precisely, I don't understand how people seem to have been so blown away by it. Its language doesn't feel incomprehensible -- it's not like the approach itself is a closed book to me...''

interesting point here: sometimes 'not getting it' is a reaction to hype and i agree on endless summer. heard a couple of tracks and i couldn't understand why he was extending the language of the guitar. OK so the method is interesting but the results: hardly.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 October 2002 10:58 (twenty-three years ago)

when i say i "don't get" something i don't like it but i don't wanna talk about it with you because why talk to some moron who'd like such shit. when i say i "don't like" something it means i've never heard it but i don't trust your recommendations because you like stuff i "don't get". when i say i've "never heard" something it means i "don't get" it.

― 24hrts (doorag), Sunday, 27 October 2002 11:02 (twenty-three years ago)

"hehe...I have to say that his studio acoustic stuff isn't that good. there is a clean' nature to his sound. I'd like it if it didn't sound so damn polished." You gotta be having a turkish? And the stuff about women and profound and poetic. Eurgh.

Robert's early stuff is ragged as fuck. By all account, Dylan is an enigmatic chap when it comes to laying down tracks. He does a shit load of takes and will then use the second one he put down - a perfect sound doesn't strike me as being particularly high up on his priority list.

But thi isn't a Dylan thread. I don't get shit loads of bands. Perhaps it's to do with not liking their music or personality? Like Ned up there says he can't take Dylan's 'wine' so he can't enjoy Dylan's music etc etc, but to me, Rob's music is intrinsically NOT tedious. And I'm like "what the fuck??? Does not compute. Esp since Ned likes the Cure." Cos, see, I find Rob Smith's voice a right pain in the ass.

Anyhoows, not getting it eh. Not getting what exactly? Not getting how an artist's projects may be appreciate by a.n. other? Not geting what an artist is trying to DO? It's a minefield.

Boom.

― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Sunday, 27 October 2002 11:18 (twenty-three years ago)

steely dan. maybe it's just because i've listened to bad mp3s but the sound of their music is just so shallow, pale, tinny and fussy. i get fidgety listening to it. i don't feel frustrated that i don't get them, and i certainly don't feel triumphant. just a bit curious as to why other people love them so much when i hear nothing there at all. it's like trying to eavesdrop on a conversation that's in another language.

― minna (minna), Sunday, 27 October 2002 11:29 (twenty-three years ago)

JBR - Julio is so OTM.

― david h (david h), Sunday, 27 October 2002 11:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Reaction to "not getting it" - often frustrated (esp. when friends/whomever lavishes praise on it). Can lead to hatred (my stubborn attempts to not hate Sleater-Kinney have completely & utterly failed), indifference, or the music sneaking up to you & clicking - never thought I'd really get Stephen Merritt songs, but listened to "100,000 Fireflies" & "Lonely Days" while stranded in Rotorua on a rainy afternoon & it just clicked (& led to putting tracks on repeat, & wondering why I didn't adore them earlier). Context has been pretty important re : hearing music in clubs - hip-hop, jungle/d'n'b, house & so on, that then leads to being able to listen to it anywhere.

But . . . there's usually enough music out there not to worry about things I don't get - evading Bob Dylan is fairly easy. It's still sort of annoying when you set yr heart on something & then are left indifferent to it - hello, scads of shoegazing!

― Ess Kay (esskay), Sunday, 27 October 2002 11:55 (twenty-three years ago)

JBR: Julio is so NOTM.

― Matt C., Sunday, 27 October 2002 12:57 (twenty-three years ago)

things i don't get - i don't get the vines, they sound very dull and boring and nirvana-lite. i don't get alot of the hype on them. i don't get the darkness, singing on the latest ikea commercial, for no particular reason, i don't get why people buy records from sweden, punk rock records from sweden because for the most part there is no personality - style over substance - etc. i don't get alot of kraut rock, i only get it if i smoke alot of drugs, same with lee scratch perry. i don't get philip glass. i don't get the fall. i don't get electroclash. i don't get tim rose. i don't get post-punk. it's not that i don't get it - i understand the angles but i just find it dull and boring.

― doom-e, Sunday, 27 October 2002 13:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Duane's post is far and away the most OTM on this thread. So far.

The 'secret' of the Flamin' Groovies that they actually only managed to record abt two really gd tracks in 20 years, which is some kind of cause for humour or camp or whatever. As JBR sez, there's 'Shake Some Action' (which actually has a fuckin' tune for a change and is not esp. 'typical' of their 'work') and maybe 'Headin' For The Texas Border' which is a nothing more or less than a gd riff rave-up. But what do I know - after all the Groundhogs chat on IL* I bought a cheap 'Best Of' culled from their first 6 albs, and thought their blues covers/rip-offs really really stank - some gd moments tho', so I think I still 'get it'...

The only 'wisdom' I've ever acquired is NOT to say 'I don't get it' right away, 'cos sometimes these things do take a while to sink in...

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 27 October 2002 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

''Duane's post is far and away the most OTM on this thread. So far.''

I liked duane's post as well. wasn't he the one who made the first nu-ILM post saying that he didn't 'get' derek bailey?

can mark s come back and then he can be OTM. he says 'don't get' a lot of the time.

''Robert's early stuff is ragged as fuck. By all account, Dylan is an enigmatic chap when it comes to laying down tracks. He does a shit load of takes and will then use the second one he put down - a perfect sound doesn't strike me as being particularly high up on his priority list.''

There's nothing 'enigmatic' abt him roger. Live 66 worked because he gave himself to rock and roll. lets get some electricity in this place. I'm not saying the rest of his stuff is terrible or unlistenable but his 'sensitive soul' routine just bores the fuck out of me.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 October 2002 16:56 (twenty-three years ago)

A couple of artists/albums I never "got" and my current evaluation in brackets:

- Grateful Dead (aimless noodling)
- Nico (this is so serious...)
- Radiohead pre Amnesiac (nothing new under the sun)
- Van Morrison - Astral Weeks (it's ok, but I don't see what's so great about it, maybe I am slowly getting into it)
- Oasis (in hindsight apparently I didn't miss much)
- Scott Walker (concerning opera singing in pop I prefer a a small dose of Jeff Buckley by miles)
- Bruce Springsteen - Born To Run (the most overproduced shite I know)
- Abba (is there anything to get?)
- all hyped retro bands of the last 1-2 years including Strokes, White Stripes, BRMC, Hives, Vines etc. (this really makes me fall asleep)
- Chemical Brothers (I always found this a step back from what The Shamen did before)
- Daft Punk (computer age music usually is not my cup of tea)
- Kraftwerk (see entry above)
- Sigur Ros (I love Godspeed and a little bit of Mogwai but this really annoys me)

Coming back to the question I feel very good. I would probably even feel better if there would be more music I wouldn't get into as there is already so much I do get into. I am overwhelmed by my cd rack...

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 27 October 2002 18:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I tried to 'get' Joy Division yesterday (found access to the Heart and Soul box set) but I failed! I heard that sad people were supposed to like them. Am I human?

― Honda, Sunday, 27 October 2002 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Honda: The secret is to imagine monkeys singing while listening to it.

― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 27 October 2002 23:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I didn't get Joy Division for ages, apart from a few songs. I was listening too hard and it got boring. Then when I was hoovering they suddelnly clicked with me: they play domestic disco, and I like it.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 28 October 2002 00:35 (twenty-three years ago)

In order to really understand what it means to "not get (insert artist here)" it would probably help to define what it means to "get" an artist in the first place. If I "get" an artist, is it just that I like it? Or is it deeper than that--do I have to think that the artist has really made an important contribution to music? Or is it just that I feel that I understand exactly where that artist should stand in relation to other musicians?

Take the Strokes, a much hyped and maligned pop group. I like the Strokes, I think they are catchy and have good hooks. However, I do not think they have "saved rock'n'roll", as the initial media frenzy claimed. I think that means I "get" them--but not in the same way I "get" Yoshimi battles the pink robots, which I think will be remembered as a classic rock album from this decade (although I'm sure there are those who disagree, and to me they just "don't get it").

It seems to boil down to a matter of personal taste, as has been mentioned. The level of importance you ascribe to something seems to determine how much you "get it". I used to not "get" modest mouse, but one day it just clicked with me and now I ascribe much more depth and meaning to their songs than I used to. I like fennesz, but many would say I "don't get it" because I don't think his music is that important.

I think it is easier to "get" something you haven't already heard about--as Ronan pointed out preconceived notions can color your susceptibility to "getting it" upon first listen.

I don't "get" dylan, or the grateful dead. I especially don't "get" Phish.

― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 28 October 2002 00:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I get a real Emperor's New Clothes feeling when men of wealth and taste big up something that's clearly shit. "Die Another Day", for instance, is obviously bollocks - Madge did the whole stop-start thing much better on "Don't Tell Me", "Beautiful Stranger" is a way better theme song, and in any case you can stick your glitch-pop RIGHT UP YOUR ARSE - but so many people are praising it that in paranoid moments I think that I'm a fool that just doesn't get it.

I'm not, though. I'm right.

― Mike (mratford), Monday, 28 October 2002 01:03 (twenty-three years ago)

No you're not, because "Beautiful Stranger" needed to be drowned at birth. For example.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 October 2002 01:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Mike: I was astounded by "Die Another Day". I mean, it's a James Bond soundtrack tune!!! How the fuck can you mess that up?? You just do what everyone else has done before- it served Sheryl Crow as well as it did Garbage. You don't fucking use it as a platform for innovation!!

― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 28 October 2002 01:32 (twenty-three years ago)

ha ha andrew you are the only person EVER says i'm "OTM". btw keep trying with the groundhogs i reckon (coincidentally am listening to "blues obit." right now) & also yr pretty off beam about the groovies i think...the whole of the "flamingo" & "teenage head" albums are pretty much solid good...what i meant when i said to maryann they're kind of kitschy or campy, i meant they're a real fanboy pastiche band & roy loney ('cause that's the period i'm talking about, the "shake some action" era is pastiche-y as hell too of course but in a difft way) is a totally goofy singer, they're joking around with that stuff. that's ok tho.

― unknown or illegal user (doorag), Monday, 28 October 2002 03:59 (twenty-three years ago)

There is lots of stuff I "don't get", in the sense of "I don't understand how someone could love this music" - generally I think I'm trying to protect myself from the awful truth that people do genuinely find it meaningful or emotional or artistically satisfying but because I'm an optimist I prefer not to be led to the conclusions about human nature that concept would imply. When it comes to the physical impact of music on people I always "get it" even though my body often doesn't.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't "get" techtronica. Sequencers, vocoders, drum machines .. et al.. I find it monotonous and undanceable - but I really would like to be able to appreciate it. Makes me feel like one of those guys I encountered as a teenager who only listened to Led Zeppelin & the Doors and didn't "Get" that "new shit."

.. but really, it is monotonous and insincere, isn't it?

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay, if you can get it without liking it, can you like it without getting it?

― Yes/No Interlude (Yes/No Interlude), Monday, 28 October 2002 14:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course you can like it without getting it. That is liking something for the "wrong reason" (whatever that is, the good ones established by the crits?). You do not have to fully understand (=get) a certain piece of music to like it.

Actually rethinking about this I probably don't get a lot of music. I feel we are approaching philosophy here. Maybe Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Adorno said something about this? Or Wittgenstein?

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:29 (twenty-three years ago)

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