L. Cohen or P. Simon, who is the better songwriter

Simon

why these two?

is this some kind of parody poll?

Simon by 1000
Don't get me started on Lennie

voted personal preference and you can't stop me

well Leonard Cohen was a well regarded and established poet before he even started his music career.

on the other hand he has never been on SNL.

on the other other hand being on SNL requires no talent whatsoever.

Cohen had more hair. So Cohen.

Talent is a p mushy concept. Simon waaaay ahead in the quantity and variety of good to great songs.

Talent is a p mushy concept. Simon waaaay ahead in the quantity and variety of good to great songs.

it's a testament to his talent that Death of a Ladies Man is an unfinished work with rough vocals yet still a thing of beauty and wonder

he was too funny for SNL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv4J7sID3Pk

Shaker 2times otm

it's almost apples to oranges. "Kodachrome" is a good/great song in one way, but next to something like "The Master" or "Sisters of Mercy" it's just some alright pop, almost seems unfair

"Mrs. Robinson" is a classic song and def a great all time track. but next to "Suzanne"? you got to be kidding me.

There's probably an argument for Simon being the better songwriter but I'm sure he'd personally admit to quaking in the presence of Lennie's sublimity.

I doubt it. Simon is a p confident guy

This is Simon pretty easy for me. I may give Cohen the edge lyrically but Simon was a genius tunesmith

I don't really like Paul Simon at all & will never voluntarily listen to his music but if the metric is "songwriter" he still wins this. Cohen is a better lyricist but an reasonable metric.

check out the ILX Best Albums of 2k10 thread, Leonard Cohen is all over it, at 82+ years old. Simon hasn't even released an album since 2001.

the fuck are you on about, simon released an album in 2016

good one, too

but I'm still not sure why we're comparing these very different but in no obvious way opposed artists?

I dont vote in decades/annual polls but yeah simon absolutely released great stuff in the last decade

Cohen goes deeper but Simon covers more surface area

talk about covers, there must be a million Cohen covers out there and a handful of Simon ones

the guy wrote Hallelujah!

Much bigger Paul Simon fan (for S&G plus first solo album).

"voted personal preference and you can't stop me"--wouldn't know how to vote any other way.

I saw Paul Simon live a couple of weeks ago. Great concert. Did a couple of tracks with a sextet, including a version of René and Georgette Magritte With Their Dog After the War that was spellbindingly beautiful.

I'm also pretty sure Bridge Over Troubled Water has been covered a couple of times, lol.

Leonard Cohen is a better poet than he is songwriter.

Love 'em both, love Paul more, voted Paul, also think that he's more a songwriter on all fronts while Lenny's primary power is poetry.

are you asking which one lives higher...

in the tower of song?

What calstars said

Going for Simon

Leonard Cohen is a better poet than he is songwriter.

God, no.

who had more songs on the soundtrack to shrek?

checkmate paul simon u tiny bitch

talk about covers, there must be a million Cohen covers out there and a handful of Simon ones

Probably more than a handful but, yes, for a guy who is a Poet Not A Songwriter Cohen must have written some of the most covered songs of his generation: Suzanne, Bird on a Wire, Hallelujah...

surely "hell, i can sing it better than that" is even more of a factor for Len than Paul

I don't know about talent, but Cohen is better.

man now i'm sad there was never a cohen and garfunkel

Awesome cover and Simon tears up (much like emmylou did when they dedicated a song to her)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pa3xOakbGTo

Voted Cohen, all you haterz can go fly a kite.

I was lucky enough to see him perform 6 years ago. He played a 3 hour set, not a dud in sight.

We had a lot of fun
We had a lot of money
We had a little son and we thought we'd call him Sonny
Sonny gets married and moves away
Sonny has a baby and bills to pay
Sonny gets sunnier
Day by day by day by day

talk about covers, there must be a million Cohen covers out there and a handful of Simon ones

possibly because there's more room to improve on the original performances

now, who is the better cook?

Keats vs. Wordsworth

Paul Simon, obviously.

simon's last album was hella cool

xp - Yes this poll is a little ridiculous I guess. Cohen seems more revered around here but that probably has a lot to do with his being more active this century and then his passing

Cohen’s adherents tend to be particularly... spirited, in my experience

don't make me post that amanda palmer video

I remain blissfully ignorant

And they're gone like this dong

I love Paul Simon, but I can't remember the last time I listened to one of his albums. I listen to a Leonard Cohen album once every week or two.

― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, August 7, 2018 5:39 PM (fifty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I imagine this describes many of us, or many more of us than "I listen to Simon all the time and only occasionally break out some Leonard Cohen". But if we're still going to overwhelmingly nod to Simon as the better songwriter, I guess it's as simple as Cohen's lyrical themes speak to a lot of us a lot more.

Serious question: are we really counting "listening to an album" in 2018 instead of "I listened to a few Simon tracks in the last month on my phone/Spotify"?

i guess it boils down to what you want from your songwriters.

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, August 7, 2018 11:47 AM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, and Cohen gives me all I ever wanted from this type of music whereas Simon is 'just' great. Not denying Simon's talent but sometimes it just clicks with an artist and notion of talent are thrown out of the window.

To me the entity known as "Paul Simon" is at least five different guys. Chipper teenager, S&G dude, cocky 70s shrimp, wistful boomer, savvy but problematic world-music conduit, late tired sage, SNL presence, etc. Each of them requires a different mood to cause me to listen to him.

In contrast, I think I only know of two entities called "Leonard Cohen." I call them folky and spooky.

lol that is very otm.

Would vote in a poll of Simon personas (voting cocky 70s shrimp btw)

never really occurred to me til now that Cohen's voice took a pretty straight path from choirboy tenor to rumbling bass over the course of 50 years

Serious question: are we really counting "listening to an album" in 2018 instead of "I listened to a few Simon tracks in the last month on my phone/Spotify"?

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2018 3:58 PM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk these are both p album-oriented artists for me

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

nice

wow, nice

Cohen vs. Simon is more like a battle of theses rather than an competition between like songwriters. Cohen's style of "let's take a pile of jokes and string them together" is godfather to Morrissey, to Smog, to Xiu Xiu-- though Cohen sings more about his relationship to the infinite than the latter songwriters, who keep things strictly interpersonal or (regrettably) political.

Simon is more classical metaphorical misdirection-- a song about viewing architecture that is actually about childbirth, a song about driving that is actually about a divorce. His twin shadow is undoubtedly Joni Mitchell, both as a "cloaking a heavy feeling in descriptive tableaux" and also musical cultural tourism. It sometimes makes me curious about a kind of moral bankruptcy, from an artistic perspective-- that Mitchell and Simon would pathologically take scenario after scenario after scenario and overlay their own internal emotional world, just as they engage in genre-exercise to prolong their own creative streak. Cohen, in comparison, writes his songs in a room

― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, July 27, 2018 1:37 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is such a great post.

N I C E

I know, I teared up a little bit knowing how pleased Lenny must be with these results

Haha did NOT expect that. Silent majority, you ppl rule

Wow, awesome. I though Cohen would get crushed, so I'm very pleasantly surprised.

Thanks Eyeball Kicks
Good poll results
I love both these songwriters

Oh my I really thought Simon was running away with it.

dead guy always has a leg up

did not vote, happy with results

ime experience with any of these kinds of "canonical" matchups (see also the recent RTX vs. Pavement poll), there's a vocal contingent on the thread arguing for one side, and then the silent majority swoops in and votes in massive numbers for the more boring answer. This has happened a lot.

He shall thus be known as 'Interesting' Paul Simon.

Poll results would have been quite different if conducted offline.

“You wouldn’t vote like that to my face”

we couldn’t get enough volunteers to ring up all the ilxors to get their opinion so on here it’ll have to remain

I proudly voted Cohen and am not a lurker, fwiw

i didn't vote bc i didn't agree w/ the premise

The silent majority wasn’t silent just less obnoxious iirc

You guys know exactly what I mean - this small community doesn't really represent the tastes of the real world. Simon would win in a landslide if that were the case, and everyone here knows it.

thx cpt obv

don't recall anyone ever suggesting that ILM polls were any kind of reflection of real world opinions.

I've taken part in four polls of this sort 'in the real world' in the last 24 hours. Can't move for the bloody things.

a poll of randoms/12 CD types would have Simon winning
a poll of sophisticated music fans would also have Simon winning I'd think
then there's the murky lurky middle

I think we'd all feel better if we got back to our Leonard Cohen stage musical

(I would, anyway)

either that or my long-dreamed of Lou Reed/Paul Simon gritty NY 70s buddy cop movie

(Leonard Cohen can play one of their sleazy informants)

a poll of sophisticated music fans would also have Simon winning I'd think

ooh sophisticated music fans!

Can’t believe all these boring flyover country rubes who prefer Leonard Cohen

ime experience with any of these kinds of "canonical" matchups (see also the recent RTX vs. Pavement poll), there's a vocal contingent on the thread arguing for one side, and then the silent majority swoops in and votes in massive numbers for the more boring answer. This has happened a lot.

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:26 AM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this comparison makes no sense. pavement was far more popular and well known that RTX, simon is far more popular and well known than cohen.

Can’t believe all these boring flyover country rubes who prefer Leonard Cohen

― omar little, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 11:12 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

we should go to a small town diner to talk to laid off steelworker trump voters about which track off songs from a room is their favorite

pavement was far more popular and well known that RTX, simon is far more popular and well known than cohen.

idk out there "in the real world" yes, but I'm talking about relative to ILM. In both cases the more boring answer (Pavement/Cohen) won, why because corny indie fux00rs

fwiw I didn't vote in the Pavement/Trux poll cuz I honestly couldn't decide, I love them both and they do v different things. But I was not entirely surprised when all the "RTX" posts were followed by Pavement winning handily.

simon is far more popular and well known than cohen

If you're talking audience, then I'm pretty confident more people have heard or own some version of "Hallelujah" at this point than anything by Simon. For whatever that is worth. What is the most iconic/perennially ubiquitous Paul Simon song? "Sound of Silence" or something like that? Are there any Paul Simon songs that, say, a high schooler or middle schooler would immediately know?

"heard or own" is a low bar

idk what Simon's most widely known song is. Mrs. Robinson? Me & Julio?

If you're talking audience, then I'm pretty confident more people have heard or own some version of "Hallelujah" at this point than anything by Simon

uh what? Yes, it's true they -- whoever they are -- may know a song called "Hallelujah," maybe even identify Leonard Cohen, but this is a world where people will think "Paul Simon" and name "The Boxer," "Mrs. Robinson," "Bridge Over Troubled Waters," "You Can Call Me Al," "Me and Julio" and so on.

i don't know guys, a lot of songs, you can call me al or any number of incredibly popular songs you mentioned and many others. like it's not even close simon has many standards.

but i'll dip out and let simon fans jack themselves off about their really advanced tastes in music

Heard or own is definitely a low bar! I doubt many under the age of, I dunno, 30 know much about either artist, so knowing just one song from one of them might be it!

I mean, Cohen's Various Positions wasn't even released in the U.S. when it came out in the early 80s.

A few years later, Cohen accepted an award and said about Columbia Records "I have always been touched by the modesty of their interest in my work."

Which has nothing to do with quality, just popularity.

Giggling at the conspiracy theories explaining why Simon got robbed.

idk what Simon's most widely known song is. Mrs. Robinson? Me & Julio?

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 4:24 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

At this point, I'd say 'You Can Call Me Al', actually!

http://simonandgarfunkelnews.web.tv/video/the-sweeney-sisters-paul-simon-bridge-over-troubled-water-webtv__bloizapjrnk

omg watching this again serious lols