POLL away the dew... Best Grateful Dead recurring live jam/transition piece

Lengthy slipknots in help>slip>Frank put it over the top for me.

come on.

I love many 72-74 Playing In The Bands and am a big Help>Slip>Frank guy, but there's only one answer here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1SGMAZ9GKw

The first '90s "Space" I heard was basically someone running through the presets of a DX7 in a music store. I have not revisited '90s Dead since.

Every one of these has several incredibly brilliant versions and likely as many horrifically bad versions...except for "Feedback." There is no bad (nor even mediocre) "Feedback," and it was my way into the Dead, so I'm voting "Feedback."

china-->rider is the most reliable

I love many 72-74 Playing In The Bands and am a big Help>Slip>Frank guy, but there's only one answer here.

― Paul Ponzi

"seastones", right?

It seems that when The Other One lead to Dark Star or vice versa, you are in for a looooong jam.

*votes for cryptic envelopment*

j/k for me this is "help/slip/tower" easily, the suite that got me into the dead. "playing in the band" is probably second, i've literally tried to convert people to the dead with the veneta '72 "playing"

I love many 72-74 Playing In The Bands and am a big Help>Slip>Frank guy, but there's only one answer here.

― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:17 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is it dark star

i mean having heard a '70 dark star recently yeah it's undeniable

china-->rider is the most reliable

Truth

china-->rider is the most reliable

Truth

otmx2

Honestly at a loss here, completely torn. Advocates, post your favorite versions! Make your case!

China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider has a hell of a payoff, but China Cat itself is one of those psychedelic lyrics that just has me going "are you kidding me?"

Help on the Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower for me any day.

Does the Eleven fit here, cos that's a great one they did for the last couple of years of the 60s.

Also I thought Other One and Dark Star were songs they did on alternative nights or at least alternative sets so can't remember and Other one in to Dark Star. Is it a klater thing? Cos I tend to focus more on the period up to the retirement in 74, probably mainly from late 67/early 68.

Spanish Jam is another great one, though may be a pretty straight lift from bits of Sketches of Spain initially. THink it may have become more open ended as things went on.

There are definitely late 60s/early 70s shows where they play both Dark Star and The Other One in the second set, but can't remember if they ever actually transitioned straight from song one to the other.

Really like those 72 shows where they go from Dark Star or The Other One into Wharf Rat.

^^yup

The first "Wharf Rat" I ever heard was the one that emerged from "Dark Star" on Dusseldorf 4/24/72 (Rockin' the Rhein). It was like watching an unexpected sunrise.

Kinda feel likeChina/Rider is the mayonnaise of these options. Not super flashy but oh so essential. Ties a lot of things together and stands the test of time.

This is like Mornington Crescent for American music nerds

I could've added more options but they didn't seem to quite fit. St Stephen going into the eleven was awesome and done a lot in 69 and spliced among other tunes after that, but I think of it as more of a contained song than a jumping off point like I was reaching for with this poll. Terrapin is usually a set highlight for me but it's more epic than jammy. Truckin' was a big jam vehicle for awhile, going off into nobody's fault but mine or whatever, but it's also their hit single and I figured no one would pick it from this list. As second set jam vehicles go, maybe China>Rider doesn't fit with the others because it is so consistent and often was a first set treat. And NFA doesn't really fit because it was mainly a second set closing steady beat sing-along, but whatever, plz post more examples of songs & transitions that get so far out that you forget what they are until they come back again. That Cornell scarlet fire Alice in wonderland video above is super trippy.i love it.

Only other thing I can think of is the ending jam to Eyes O the World but that was p much limited to 73 and 74 so it lacks the staying power. Same goes for St Stephen>Eleven imo.

Not Fade Away is the Margaritaville of the dead repertoire btw. A cheap sugar high that has no place on this list of epic visionary super-jams.

generally agree with you ... but this NFA sequence is kinda unbelievable: https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2013/09/05/dead-notes-4-91970-fillmore-east-nyc/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeE6QysNp24

I feel like once I opened the door to Lovelight, I had to let Not Fade Away in too. At least I kept out sugar magnolia>sunshine daydream off the list.

I dig the 77 swing help>slip>Frank:
https://youtu.be/VFuECv5sB2o

& that show has a great eyes of the world end jam as mentioned above w/ bass solo!

One for the Dark Star contingent:
https://archive.org/details/gd72-08-21.sbd.hamilton.150.sbeok.shnf/gd72-08-21d3t01.shn#

Berkley '72

happy 8/27 eve everyone

China>Rider

China>Rider

bill! hello!

Uncle John's Band might fit in this list. Don't know if it was as predictable a jammer as some of these, but I know I have a bunch of shows where it gets out there. More than China Cat>Rider, anyway (though I'll take China Cat>Rider over UJB any day!)

I want to get into live Grateful Dead but they have like 50 billion live albums. Where the hell do you start? Live/Dead? Europe 72? One of the Dick's Picks?

"sunshine daydream"

the sunshine daydream "playin' in the band" is what i use to introduce people to the live dead; they get it or... they don't

some people just hear noodling but i hear free jazz spaghetti nightmare

I want to get into live Grateful Dead but they have like 50 billion live albums. Where the hell do you start? Live/Dead? Europe 72? One of the Dick's Picks?

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 6 September 2018 22:59 (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Live/Dead and 72 are both decent starting points. Different styles. Give both a listen if you can.

I mean, if you don't like either of those official releases, you won't like the "best ever" live recording that any given Deadhead recommends from three decades of gigs either.

sunshine daydream (which is also 72 fwiw and pairs nicely with officially released europe comp from that same year) is the gateway imo. Skip right to the second half to see what the fuss is about. Best "Dark Star" ever, maybe

Even better: watch the movie of the concert. I feel like if you watch that and don't come away a Deadhead, it's not gonna happen

What’s the version of “Dark Star” that’s on the Zabriskie Point soundtrack? I like that one.

that's from Live Dead, I think

It's from Live/Dead.

As much as I love Sunshine Daydream, I'm completely unconvinced that it will seduce anyone over any other Dead album. That "holy grail" song search is for Deadheads only

watch the movie of the concert

warning if you are alienated by the fans of this band, don't watch the movie of this concert

"live/dead" is the easiest answer but i'm hesitant to recommend it because i don't like it!

i was already a convert by the time i heard the live/dead dark star but it is really great and accessible-seeming

i put it on sometimes when i'm writing

I was trying to think of an 80s answer to this question, taking to heart Duke's comment above, which is probably OTM. What came to mind is the first set of the pay-per-view from Summer of 1989 at Shoreline. The date is 6-21-89, I think. Pro quality video and a completely solid set of tunes, several of them catchy and upbeat. Jerry is lively and smiling a bunch, and is having a pretty good hair day.

Cryptical Envelopment 1 -> The Other One -> Cryptical Envelopment 2 on Fillmore East 2/11/69

J Sam thx for the rec will seek it out

overall i can't stand brent and bob is unbearable in this era

Brent's voice has grown on me a little over the years, though I still find it slightly annoying.

Bob...I mean...what the fuck did he think he was doing? Was he trying to (over)compensate for Jerry's onstage nodding or something?

what the fuck did he think he was doing?

he was doing cocaine

lol
Bobs vocal improvisations are just the worst. “Estimated prophet “ In particular
NAH NAH NAH DONT WORRY BOUT ME NO

I’ve listened to enough at this point where when I’m looking to pull on a random live show I’m fully expecting to skip through a good chunk of Weir and Cringe-pen led songs. The world never needed 10+ minute renditions of “Good Morning Little Schoolgirl.”

I don't know, I've kinda come back around full circle on some of those Pig vamps. Every now and then the band lands on a killer groove and I get into 'em.

100% agreed on Bobby's vocal improvs tho, especially when he'd inject the falsetto

Shorts must have been a little too tight

There is not a single listenable ‘80s or ‘90s “Estimated Prophet.” Even the ones with David Murray, Bob has to ruin everything with his horseshittery.

Pig instructing the men in the audience to take their hands out of their pockets and go proposition the nearest female during every Lovelight and Weir's Mexicali Statutory Rapist Blues are deal breakers for me. Can't skip either of those songs fast enough. Also, any song where Brent digs into the pain he feels as a drugged up musician on the road away from his family. So gross.

I'm no Pigpen stan but "Mr. Charlie" simply rips. And "The Stranger (Two Souls in Communion)" is a pretty good tough-guy-gets-sensitive song, and it makes me sad he didn't get a chance to explore that avenue further

He’s pretty good on Easy Wind. Little Bobby certainly couldn’t have pulled that lyric off, and with Jerry it would have taken on a melancholy reflective tinge like Wharf Rat does

lol
Bobs vocal improvisations are just the worst. “Estimated prophet “ In particular
NAH NAH NAH DONT WORRY BOUT ME NO

On this day in 1974 at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, the Grateful Dead debuted their "Wall Of Sound" PA system. Every instrument and every microphone had its own separate set of speakers. The output was crystal-clear from half a mile away.
They dragged it, and two stage setups leapfrogging each other, around the continent during an oil embargo crisis. It was so innovative, and so expensive, that seven months later they abandoned it and took some time off to wait for the rest of the music industry to catch up to them.

(from a friend)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Jesd35ex402z.jpg

I know many of the Dick's Picks and some of the European shows pretty well. They could take off on some of those sets for like 90 minutes straight. This one is pretty wild.

"Dark Star" -> (Garcia, Hart, Kreutzmann, Lesh, McKernan, Weir, Hunter) – 29:41
"That's It for the Other One" -> (Grateful Dead) – 30:07
"Turn On Your Love Light" (Malone, Scott) – 30:27

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick%27s_Picks_Volume_4

That huge one on Hundred Year Hall is really cool.

I feel pretty confident that, were he alive today, Jerry would have surfaced in the covidiots in music thread

'Chlor'quin', like the Trump-ah man
Once told me "You've got to look at the sun"
Sometimes they won't let you have any fun
If you don't have a mask

Dick's Pick's 16 is one of my favorites cause nearly the entire show is one continuous jam with weird digressions:

Dark Star > 14:43
The Other One > 12:00
Dark Star > 1:05
Uncle John's Jam > 2:34
Dark Star 3:24
Saint Stephen > 7:01
The Eleven > 14:34
Caution > 17:43
Main Ten Jam> 3:12
Caution > 8:26
Feedback > 8:32
And We Bid You Goodnight 3:31

I had to look that one up because my initial view of that set list had me thinking Weir and Pig must have had laryngitis or something but that just looks to be the latter half of the set.

Yeah, I just realized that archive.org (where I took that from) is missing most of the first half of the official release.

Estimated > Eyes is a favorite of late

Speaking of live Dead, they just announced an underwhelming reissue of Skull and Roses with a second disc pulled from 7/2/71. Kinda surprised to see this since they've always said the series of 50th anniversary reissues wasn't going to include live albums.

Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA (7/2/71)
1. GOOD LOVIN' [17:47]
2. SING ME BACK HOME [10:16]
3. MAMA TRIED [3:08]
4. CRYPTICAL ENVELOPMENT> [2:25]
5. DRUMS> [5:13]
6. THE OTHER ONE [15:51]
7. BIG BOSS MAN [5:27]
8. NOT FADE AWAY> [3:57]
9. GOIN' DOWN THE ROAD FEELING BAD [9:39]
10. NOT FADE AWAY [2:35]"

Late 80s/90s “good lovin” another good example of Bobby going off the rails vocally

doing a dive into the ‘77 performances of Help/Slip/Frank and they are absolutely stomping.

the Dark Star at Pirates World is jolly good fun, 1970-03-24, Dania, FL.

https://archive.org/details/gd70-03-24.sbd.miller.32054.sbeok.flacf/gd70-03-24d2t01.flac

xxxxxxxxxp I think 1st August 73 was a Jerry's birthday show. I think I noticed more of a soul influence on teh night when I was listening to it a few years ago. Used to have it on a cassette tape so that goes back several years.
JUst remember having it playing as i was on a bus through kilburn . Which is a snippet stuck in my head.
Anyway good gig.

as to introduction live sets
I think Two From The Vault which is them at a peak in August 68.
Dick's Picks vol 4 which is another peak in may 70.
I guess the peak for 69 is Feb/March as utilised for Live dead and the Fillmore 69 sets.

not really sure about peak months for later years.
Do think that Veneta set that is Now Sunshine Daydream which conveniently comes with teh film as a dvd in the package.
Was listening to Pacific Northwest 3cd earlier which is good but not sure about best for year. oh yeah it spans 2 for one thing.

I meant to pick up the 50th anniversary sets but haven't done so so far.
Good to know most stuff was up at archive.org if it still is. Was stil streaming the sets that were offically released last time i looked while they had removed the ability to individually d/ld those gigs.

WOW this is the best sounding AUD i think i have ever heard

https://archive.org/details/gd1975-09-28.fob.menke-falanga.motb-0069.91769.flac16/gd1975-09-28.motb.0069.d1t01.flac

Don’t have the details here in front of me but there is an audience recording of a 1971 show from Hollywood Bowl that is unreal. Super crisp and it puts you right in the belly of the beast, so to speak. Check it out.

8/6/71- the hard to handle on it is great, haven't listened to much of the rest because i don't dig that era too much

'71 is a tough year for me to fully love. A lot of the primal dust has shaken off by this point, but they've yet to launch into the expansive explorations that would come in '72. Which isn't to say there's not a ton of good material to be found, but there are a lot of shows that feel like two first sets instead of a first and second set flow.

Is there a name for the extended jam they sometimes do at the end of Eyes of the World?

'stronger than dirt' i think, and they always play it tremendously sloppily

someone is going into labor in the crowd in this show. music stopped while they call for a doctor. followed up by 'music never stopped' haha

I like how that 1975 show begins with two minutes of tuning and noodling so obvious that even I, a non-Deadhead, would know "oh, they're opening with "Help on the Way."

Isn't stronger than dirt a commercial jingle that teh Doors also used in places. Presumably for a domestic cleaner or bleach or something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToNNpP6DVsw

This Other One Uncle Sandwich tho... https://archive.org/details/gd71-11-14.sbd.miller.23568.sbeok.shnf/gd71-11-14d2t05.shn
(killer 1st set too)

bit frustrated the Mountain Goats singer introduced me to headyversion on a jamband podcast and just furthering my rabbit hole descent.

78 Unidome IA has a hot fire Scarlet/Fire and terrif The Other One

Gonna allow post-jerry dead incarnations in this thread as well, because this slipknot from dead & co on 9/18/21 checked all the right boxes for me: https://archive.org/details/DeadCo2021-09-18.travitz.litz.schoepsCMC64v.flac16/DeadCo2021-09-18t17.flac#

I'll bite, since I was at Wrigley for both shows. That was indeed an absolutely killer "Slipknot", even if I'm loath to even try to compare this configuration to the Dead proper. But having seen Dead & Co 8 times now, I can confidently say that they have never sounded better than they did during that second set Saturday night. The band is on fire right now and locked in on a lot of levels. Yes the tempos can be slow, no it's not Jerry (and quite honestly, I think more Heads would appreciate this band if they didn't go into it expecting them to be, but that's a discussion for another time), but they have really congealed as a unit. It felt like Bobby was giving John much more leash (especially Friday night) and Jeff and Oteil are both stepping up. There was a moment during one jam where Chimenti and Mayer were locked in and sharing huge smiles, it was great.

I think the second set was a bit of a way to make up for the rain/lightning shorted first show - one set with a "China > Rider", "Estimated > Eyes" AND "Help > Slip > Frank's"? Yes, please. The only misstep is that "Days Between" was not the ballad I'd have hoped for coming out of that "Space > Milestones" jam.

Anyway, this is now likely the most words written ever on this forum about Dead & Co and will likely be the only ones, between these last two posts. :)

I have never seen Dead & Co but caught my first JRAD show a couple weeks ago. Loved it. It was almost like they were teasing me by basing the second set around my least favorite subset of the Dead's repertoire - 80s Bobby songs. Set started with Feel Like a Stranger and the song they wove in and out of other tunes was Throwing Stones. But the musicianship, ideas, energy were so top notch that it was great. Plus the songs peppered in between those - Help/Slip and Shakedown St - are some of my favorites of funky Dead.

Oh yeah, JRAD are fucking phenomenal. I hope to get to see them live soon. They can stretch out the least likely, most hated 80s songs and take them in fascinating directions. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if they could turn a "Day Job > Samba in the Rain" into an absolute half-hour gem.

Do SBDs float around for these shows?

also lol in the recording reviews:

Reviewer: Devil's Friend - ★☆☆☆☆ - September 20, 2021
Subject: Balloons and Barking
Where's the recording of you wrecking Death Don't Have No Mercy for everyone in your section at Noblesville? I asked you to STFU before things escalated. Idiot. For a dude that tapes and probably goes to a lot of shows, you are most "unDeadhead". You came across like a man-baby fighting with seat neighbors over a BALLOON. Your woman looked completely ashamed and embarrassed by you. She deserves better.

lol tapers

At the JRAD show I went to they played Comfortably Numb - as best as I could tell it was a debut? I read somewhere that they played an all-Floyd set at a festival or something, so probably it grew from there, but couldn't find any indication that it had been played at a regular show. Anyway, after that funk melange of all those songs I listed above, second set ended with Comfortably Numb>Morning Dew. They got all the soaring guitar heroics out of the way in Comfortably Numb so they then took Morning Dew in a totally different direction, with a funky, rhythmic guitar/keys duet. It was unique and super cool. Here's the full setlist: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/joe-russos-almost-dead/2021/westville-music-bowl-new-haven-ct-438cc777.html

Do SBDs float around for these shows?

I mean, I'm sure they do. I just wait for them to show up on the Relisten app or site (highly recommended for Phish, Dead and JRAD too!) and listen from there. Definitely not SBD, but surprisingly decent quality for the most part (I know the said 9/18/21 show is up there and sounds good). You can pay for SBD from nugs(dot)net if that is your thing though.

I cannot recommend the Relisten app enough though, if you are into this stuff.

I haven't listened to much jrad but their guitarist's sets with kruetzmann & billy strings at red rocks definitely piqued my interest.

Yep guitarist (Tom Hamilton) is great, and Joe Russo (drums) and Marco Benevento (keys) have been playing together in various configurations for 20 years or more, I think, and are both masters. Benevento has a lot of tricks up his sleeve that I haven't heard in other Dead-adjacent projects. They can get very jazzy.

Yeah I first saw Russo and Benevento when they toured as GRAB with Trey and Mike from Phish about fifteen years ago, they were pretty good then but I've grown to like them even more since.

Between Billy & The Kids and the Dead & Co tour, 2021 was a great summer of new shows for old deadheads, I only made it to Pine Knob for Dead & Co, but listened to almost every show of this tour when it came up on the archive and I watched most of the free set openers on nugs to get a feel for the scenes. I went to Wrigley in '17 and '19 so I didn't mind missing that so much, but I really wish I'd gone to Blossom and Deer Creek on this truly special tour. Oh well, summertime done come and gone my oh my!

I get that Wrigley may not be the ideal setting for a show, but I've grown to like it and appreciate it - easy access, plenty of food and drink options nearby for before and after a show. As opposed to Alpine Valley with no convenient non-venue places to meet up, sitting in a parking lot for two hours after a show and either springing for overpriced hotels (which still aren't even within walking distance of the venue, so you still need to either drive or arrange for transportation) or making sure you have a sober group member to drive every back home late in the night.

I loved seeing them at Wrigley, as a Cubs fan it was amazing to dance in the stands and go out onto the field, to experience the friendly confines with a extra dose of kindness. But Deer Creek was the only place I got to see Jerry ('93) so I was thinking it would be cool to go back there again, I was just too worried about Covid - but I would've risked it for that second set had I known: Sugaree>Dark Star>St. Stephen>Eleven>Drums>Space>Dark Star>Death Don't Have No Mercy!