yeah that irked the fuck outta me
― I wanna publish memes and rage against machimes (rip van wanko), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:50 (four years ago) link
the grammies sucks ass and are run by scumbags, wouldn't want them to sully DCB's name by mentioning him
― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:52 (four years ago) link
"the grammies sucks ass and are..."
god i am illiterate
― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Monday, 27 January 2020 19:53 (four years ago) link
"the grammies sucks ass" sounds better and rings truer.
― del griffith, Monday, 27 January 2020 21:01 (four years ago) link
It is one award show.
"Purple Mountains is..." would also work fine.
― pplains, Monday, 27 January 2020 21:16 (four years ago) link
the more appropriate test of industry integrity will be seeing whether or not DCB gets his three second salute within the obit montage at this November's 54th Annual CMA Awards.
or wait, I guess it's just The CMAs. or maybe just CMA. it's definitely not CMA's, that I know for sure.
― del griffith, Monday, 27 January 2020 23:28 (four years ago) link
actually I think the apostrophe is acceptable in that case, lol
― I wanna publish memes and rage against machimes (rip van wanko), Monday, 27 January 2020 23:41 (four years ago) link
I dunno if we're doing Chicago or APA style but to me it seems more intuitive to use the apostrophe like "Dierk's Bentley was not welcome at the CMAs so the CMA's valet requested he arrive in a muddy pickup truck instead."
― del griffith, Monday, 27 January 2020 23:47 (four years ago) link
long interview from 2018:
https://believermag.com/an-interview-with-david-berman/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 31 January 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
That piece is a) brilliant and ii) costing me a bloody fortune (it's FULL of reading recommendations). Along with everything else about Berman, he was a nexus for so much interesting stuff. I wish someone could/would aggregate all of his recommendations.
― Ngolo Cantwell (Chinaski), Sunday, 2 February 2020 17:39 (four years ago) link
That interview sure doesn’t make the album (or any of its songs) sound like they were intended as a “suicide note.”
― dad genes (morrisp), Sunday, 2 February 2020 18:21 (four years ago) link
I read https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464 [The Fourth Turning: An American Prophecy—What the Cycles of History Tell Us about America’s Next Rendezvous with Destiny] in the nineties.It really influenced my picture of what 2020 would look like, and 25 years later it looks to me like it’s still on course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theoryIt makes a really incredible claim, that four generational types go round and round every hundred years. That one of these types shows up every 80 years: glorious rev —-> American revolution —-> Civil War —-> Depression —-> WWII —-> today (these are all roughly 80 years apart). In conjunction with a major crisis/meltdown to rebuild society on new terms. So generation Z, in this case, grow up in chaos and develop the characteristics that the WWII generation had—the world conquering abilities. The children of the WWII generation—the silent generation, the baby boomers—grew up coddled in the new regime, and started to tear it down, initiating another meltdown. Any serious person would laugh at this book. Take a look.
It really influenced my picture of what 2020 would look like, and 25 years later it looks to me like it’s still on course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory
It makes a really incredible claim, that four generational
types go round and round every hundred years. That one of these types shows up every 80 years: glorious rev —-> American revolution —-> Civil War —-> Depression —-> WWII —-> today (these are all roughly 80 years apart). In conjunction with a major crisis/meltdown to rebuild society on new terms. So generation Z, in this case, grow up in chaos and develop the characteristics that the WWII generation had—the world conquering abilities. The children of the WWII generation—the silent generation, the baby boomers—grew up coddled in the new regime, and started to tear it down, initiating another meltdown. Any serious person would laugh at this book. Take a look.
nooooooooo david!
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Sunday, 2 February 2020 20:45 (four years ago) link
it's a great interview, btw (still reading). this just jumped out to me because nooooo
btw the vinyl is back in stock at Drag City for $22 so you don't have to go to scumbag eBay vultures, free shipping even!
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 2 February 2020 21:18 (four years ago) link
It's available again in the UK, too - a bunch of places have it. Norman Records have it's for £20.
― Ngolo Cantwell (Chinaski), Sunday, 2 February 2020 21:52 (four years ago) link
how well known would he have been without the pavement connection? i think he may have been virtually unknown
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 17:52 (four years ago) link
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Slidingdoors.jpg/220px-Slidingdoors.jpg
― na (NA), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:00 (four years ago) link
*look of consternation*
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:04 (four years ago) link
how well known would he have been without the pavement connection? i think he may have been virtually unknown― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 9:52 AM (twenty-six minutes ago)
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 9:52 AM (twenty-six minutes ago)
This feels anachronistic to me. Around 1991, both bands had been operating in parallel. David, Steve & Bob were roommates in Jersey City goofing around as the Silver Jews while "Pavement" existed as a cross-country project with Steve's friend Scott in Stockton, basically recording when Steve would come home to visit on holidays/occasions. At the time, Pavement had a few obscure singles/EPs that had been primarily zine-worthy, maybe until SPIN hyped up Perfect Sound Forever is when the real buzz (or the Weddoes cover?).
The fact that David was roommates with 2 members of Pavement was simply circumstance as Bob, David & Steve had been playing music together at UVA a few years prior as Ectoslavia (with James McNew & Rob Chamberlain).
David is/was probably as famous as any other Drag City artist not named Pavement. So if you think Royal Trux, Will Oldham, Bill Callahan are "virtually unknown" then maybe you are on to something. But Pavement/Malkmus made the jump from Drag City to Matador at a particularly opportune time, which was a huge factor in the reason for their popularity.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:38 (four years ago) link
(I'm on a long boring call, apologies if that doesn't make a ton of sense)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:39 (four years ago) link
why does this matter again? not asking you, Jersey Al, just wondering.
he stopped being virtually unknown 20+ years ago, had a critically acclaimed career that attracted a non-negligible (and passionate) fan base and now he's dead.
it seems particularly silly to try to determine whether he *really* deserved it all or not.
― alpine static, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:50 (four years ago) link
xp
it does make sense, and was interesting to read. you should write the longform pavement story/bio that i'm not sure exists yet
i thought SJ/DB were more popular than bill callahan, but as i compare YT view counts (not exactly definitive, i know) I seem to be wrong
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:56 (four years ago) link
xp: Oh I agree, which is why I stated that the OP's sentiment came from an anachronistic POV.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:57 (four years ago) link
my question really has nothing to do with Berman's work or value at all
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:58 (four years ago) link
in a subjective sense
― otm into winter (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:59 (four years ago) link
I haven't read it since it was published, but I'm sure Rob Jovanovic's Pavement bio goes into most of this Inside Baseball level backstory.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:59 (four years ago) link
Albert B otm xp
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:00 (four years ago) link
OTOH drag city itself probably owes something to the pavement connection, so you could say that lifted all boats
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
I learned over the weekend that my mother, of all people, is apparently a big Callahan head ("Do you know him, and his band, Smog? He's so talented, he has an amazing voice... there's no one else like him!").
She's not an "indie" type at all. I was pretty surprised.
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
Regardless though, once I got to know Silver Jews, I thought (and still think) them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavement
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:04 (four years ago) link
(him)
There are hundreds of bands that were offshoots and side projects of better known indie bands whose albums currently languish in dollar bins worldwide. If SJ was ever considered a Pavement "side project," it transcended this, by my estimation, around the time of The Natural Bridge and became its own thing with its own distinct fanbase. To claim SJ might have been "virtually unknown" is incorrect. When I think of virtually unknown bands that feature members of relatively well-loved Drag City and Matador acts, I think of Pale Horse Riders, Drinks, Dan'l Boone, The Sundowners, New Bums, Nervous Cop, Preston School of Industry, etc.
fwiw idgaf about Pavement but I'm a longtime Silver Jews fan, and I can't imagine I'm the only person who fits this description
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:13 (four years ago) link
Hey Paul, totally off-topic – how did you like that Fiery Furnaces album you ordered on eBay?
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link
My "favorite" Silver Jews/Pavement related obscure band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WId0rLAItJo
They played CBs a few times. Nobody remembers them. This video has 568 views in 9 years, probably a dozen from me.
vox/guitar is UVA roommate/best-friend of DCB who was also a former member of Ectoslavia... and Mark Ibold replaced him as bass player of Pavement after a few gigs. Also a Swans & Live Skull connection.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:25 (four years ago) link
(^this is the definition of virtually unknown imho)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:28 (four years ago) link
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 2:17 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
I loved it, actually, and it made me want to go back to the others I neglected. Meant to thank you for the tip! "Drive to Dallas" and "Charmagne Champagne" are top shelf FF, and I laughed out loud every time the "Take Me Round Again" chorus repeated ("listen, Lester!"). Dunno why I ever stopped paying attention to this band when they were around, especially since I was crazy about their first few albums, and have also enjoyed all of Eleanor's solo stuff.
Sorry for the derail!
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:39 (four years ago) link
Great, glad to hear it! (and the derail is my fault, lol)
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 19:53 (four years ago) link
If SJ was ever considered a Pavement "side project," it transcended this, by my estimation, around the time of The Natural Bridge and became its own thing with its own distinct fanbase.
Pavement was a Silver Jews side project
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 20:26 (four years ago) link
that's a false myth:
first pavement recording: jan 1989, released july 1989first silver jews recordings: 1991, released may 1992
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 21:14 (four years ago) link
i know nothing, but recording dates don't necessarily prove that one thing existed before the other. they just mean that one sloppy unheard band decided to record something before the other
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 21:17 (four years ago) link
Wikipedia says they were formed at roughly the same time, fwiw, both in 1989
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 21:52 (four years ago) link
Pavement was not a side project of the Silver Jews. Like I said upthread, they were operating in parallel. One was some drunk roommates living room "recordings", and one was a cross-country project that would record on the occasional holiday break.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 22:05 (four years ago) link
Al -- thx for posting that Sugartime single. I love the riff... the vocals are SO in that '80s NYC zone, they sound like Das Damen or any number of other bands.
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 22:24 (four years ago) link
As far as the Sliding Doors game, if Berman had stayed only a poet, he probably would be at the fame level of Matthew Zapruder or Dean Young.
― ... (Eazy), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 22:54 (four years ago) link
Thx @morrisp,
Both David & Rob were huge Cure/Echo fans, you never heard it in David's voice but I hear a lot of goth/crossover in Rob's. I have a pic of them looking pretty gothy somewhere, it was sent to me around the time of David's passing.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:15 (four years ago) link
This is a good one (Rob & David):
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2srCfuDSFp/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:23 (four years ago) link
This IG account was their other roommate at the time, she has a bunch of old pics of Rob & David:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2stEsKjxWl/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:24 (four years ago) link
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2sLR-AD2YK/https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Scu5bDdMe/https://www.instagram.com/p/B1SbE0rDlA8/
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link
Re: the 2nd pic (with the cig) -- looks like Malkmus borrowed that shirt at one point (or vice-versa).
― dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:31 (four years ago) link
Good eye, the first pic was taken ~86, the Starlite Walker pix ~8 years later.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 23:34 (four years ago) link