What are those albums that are so off-course even the hardcore fans needn't bother

I don't mean the bad albums, since I assume most fans will at least want to hear bad versions of their favorite artists (especially since you don't actually have to pay anything to do so these days), I mean the ones which just have nothing to do with the artist's classic style and are just roundly ignored in the larger context of their discography. The fans never mention them, the songs don't appear on any comps, and the band never plays them live, outside of maybe that one tour.

For example ELP's Love Beach, as bad as it is, still has some of the hallmarks of the classic band. It's a bad record but if you're a fan you might get some amusement out of it. On the other hand In The Hot Seat just sounds like a different band entirely - many of the songs were written by the producer, Lake sounds nothing like he used to, and Emerson can't really play anymore. If you heard it in the wild you'd never identify it as ELP. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

Those two Devo albums on Enigma also count (Total Devo and Smooth Noodle Maps), I actually think the latter one is okay but I pretty much never think of them. The songs don't fit into their catalogue and they punt a lot of their unique signifiers to fit in with crappy late 80's FM radio. I was a fan for a decade before I even knew they existed (unlike say, Shout, which sold decently and still sounds like Devo, even if it kinda sucks).

For whatever reason I've become a little fascinated with these sorts of albums lately so I'm curious what y'all come up with

Like the time Goblin made a pop album with very little of its original members?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQY6WTT7bzo

exactly

also wanna clarify I'm not looking for soundtracks, oddball collabs, or weird cover albums - I want stuff that goes in the main discography

So not those instance where someone like Paul McCartney or Billy Joel decides to record a Classical album?

yeah I'd say probably not since they're marketed specifically as such

Train Above the City?

I'd imagine there is a strong correlation here with 'albums / singles that were hurriedly knocked out in order to fulfill contractual obligations' eg;

Mamas & Papas - People Like Us
Rolling Stones - Schoolboy Blues
Van Morrison - Payin' Dues (so bad it wasn't released until the 90's)
Prince - Chaos & Disorder
Ben Folds - One Down
Lou Reed - Metal Machine Music (sort of?)

Cut the crap, right?

ccr's mardis gras. what an unfortunate son of a gun.

Velvets' Squeeze obviously

Cut the crap, right?

― campreverb, Tuesday, September 10, 2019 11:27 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

That was the first one that sprung to mind for me. Only one original member (Strummer); a manager who took on co-writing, producing, and arranging (said arrangements and production not heard by Strummer until the record was out); and it's not even mentioned in passing in their official documentaries, or included in boxed sets (though I think there's one singles comp that has "This Is England").

Neil Young fans are pretty nuts about his work but i feel like at least one of his LPs could fit in this category maybe?

Celtic Frost's Cold Lake

lil wayne - rebirth

w/Neil I think the generally accepted entry is probably Everybody's Rockin

Neil Young fans are pretty nuts about his work but i feel like at least one of his LPs could fit in this category maybe?
― omar little, Tuesday, September 10, 2019 8:36 AM

a decade ago, i can see a lot of mentions for his 80s geffen era, but even those records have their defenders now. i like trans, but i think most of those albums are more boring than anything else. kind of in the devo 'shout' category that frogs mentioned.

Not that I've even heard any of these (fitting I suppose) but the first two pre-Debut Bjork albums and the Underworld Mk1 albums

w/Neil I think the generally accepted entry is probably Everybody's Rockin
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, September 10, 2019 8:38 AM

no way, that album's so much better than life or landing on water.

like i said though: all that geffen stuff is just third and fourth tier neil. inessential, sure. but definitely has gotten reevaluated more recently.

xp Re: Neil Young, its got to be 'Everybodys Rockin' aka the 25 minute album he released on Geffen directly after they sued him for 'making music that didn't sound like Neil Young'

Van Morrison - Payin' Dues (so bad it wasn't released until the 90's)

This contains the only good work Van Morrison has ever done.

xp beaten to it ;)

i think the younger neil fans will stan for Trans but would dump Everybodys Rockin, but maybe its the opposite for his older fans?

Actually there's a lot of early disowned records like the ones I mentioned. Alanis has a couple and maybe Y Kant Tori Read counts, except I think she has re-owned that one

Landing On Water has a great vibe but not many great songs. Life is.... well yeah its really pretty bad.

absolute jam from Landing -
https://youtu.be/kdxZAvP9t7A?t=68

Big fan of "Trans", I've never heard "Everybody's Rockin'" <------- old bastard

Landing on Water is better than people say it is!

these Tim Pope landing on water videos are great actually!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXmiwjKx_Cs

"Life" is kinda not that bad?

xp Re: Neil Young, its got to be 'Everybodys Rockin' aka the 25 minute album he released on Geffen directly after they sued him for 'making music that didn't sound like Neil Young'

― help yourself to another slice of apple ... crumble (Willl), Tuesday, September 10, 2019 11:42 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

The lawsuit was a response to Everybody's Rockin. Geffen initially rejected Old Ways and told Neil to make a "rock 'n' roll" album, so Neil happily obliged. Geffen was pissed at what Neil was recording and cancelled the sessions before the album was done, which is one reason it's so short. Then they sued him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcHeOg3pHhk

I'm a huge fan of "Trans". "Everybody's Rockin'" less so. I consider myself an "old" Neil fan, although I am not as old as my dad.

totally derailing with more Neil here - but one of my time travel wishlist tours would definitely have been the Trans one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oMTwfq_jI8

Lana Del Rey's Lana Del Ray ?

that concert video is amazing

features quality interpretative dancing from Nils Lofgren

xp

I've got it!

xp Cheers MBJ, I knew it was something like that

On my last BH kick, I found it very hard to listen to Butthole Surfers' Weird Revolution

Also, its hard to totally dismiss the Smooth Noodle Maps era of Devo because this is such a jam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCJoe_4eYU4

i did have an image in my head of UMS seeing Neil on the street and yelling, "Neil! Landing on Water! I liked it!"

Bad Religion - Into the Unknown

Mott the Hoople released a couple of stinky stinkers after Ian Hunter split. They shortened the name to Mott, but it was basically the same band, sans their guiding light and anything in the way of listenable material.

I actually kinda like CCR's Mardi Gras, but it would have been better for the other guys to write their songs and have John sing them. (I'm aware of the history, and that this was not likely to happen.) Most of the songs aren't that bad, but virtually no band needs three lead singers.

Blue Oyster Cult had FOUR singers, and they needed them all, if only to assure that Eric Bloom didn't get any more time behind the mic.

Calling All Stations

Also, its hard to totally dismiss the Smooth Noodle Maps era of Devo because this is such a jam

can't believe I've never seen the video, that's such a perfect ending for the group. still every time I hear that song I can't help but think it was written specifically to get radio play which is something they hadn't really done before. of course their comeback album in 2011 was pretty much all about that and it turned out pretty good

Music From 'The Elder' by Kiss used to be in this category I guess? Nowadays it sounds like the album that kicked off the epic fantasy metal genre so probably ripe for reassessment.

Jean-Michel Jarre made several of these in the 00's, he pretty much traded in his entire set up for Pro Tools/Fruity Loops type software and put out some pretty bland downtempo/trance stuff that sounds like royalty-free background music to me. Maybe Metamorphosis doesn't count (because it's actually kinda good) but the other ones - Sessions 2000, Geometry of Love, Teo & Tea - all seem to have been written out of his history already.

I actually kinda like CCR's Mardi Gras, but it would have been better for the other guys to write their songs and have John sing them

i feel like mardi gras definitely fits the thread but ^^this otm

"Someday.." and "Sweet Hitchhiker" pretty top tier CCR for me

According to Wikipedia, Fogerty refused to sing on Doug's and Stu's songs. I bet those were fun sessions.

yeah him refusing to sing was a total dick move. otoh the other guys really didn't seem to have a clue about how much Fogerty was carrying the band. So he opted to show them in the most publicly humiliating way possible.

I said "Royal Trux are a terrible band" and also "I love them", I at no point cast aspersions on Neil's guitar capabilities (and I wouldn't see why his capabilities on the guitar would have any bearing on whether his band is terrible or not, and whether or not I love them)

I do not understand why you cannot comprehend that somebody might have a more complicated relationship to a piece of music than simply "I love this, and thus the band is good, and thus Neil Hagerty is a really fucking good guitar player". There is stuff that exists that is not good, and I love it, and it is not good for reasons that are more complicated than Neil Hagerty's guitar chops, and I love it for more complicated reasons than x-y-z, possibly because I enjoy being the sort of person who listens to Twin Infinitives once a year at the very least as an ear-cleaning exercise.

And I am extremely not wrong about The Goslings. That is some goddamn terrible music, the worst I've ever heard, maybe and probably.

The literal only way I could communicate my love for Twin Infinitives was a very candid admission that I chew undigested sesame seeds that I find on my buttocks in the shower and I enjoy it

I do not understand at which point in the creation of this metaphor that I might have suggested that Neil Hagerty's fingers were not fleet

I guess I don't understand what you think is "not good" about something you love. that division between quality and appreciation doesn't make any sense to me.

Really? Music that I really love, like, say, Tori Amos or David Bowie, I have a far deeper understanding about what is good and what is bad about it. One might perceive that I'm actually not-a-fan of Amos or Bowie because I might speak about them so critically, but it's not the case at all-- the engagement I have with their work is far deeper, and I'm better able to analyze and understand and so on

I mean, case in point, I'm a huge fan of Sufjan, but that fandom only happened with Adz, and with C&L he's like... one of the greatest living songwriters. I say this as somebody who would roll their eyes when Chicago started playing on the cafe speakers when I was trying to enjoy some brunch. Critical engagement is a sign of respect, as far as I'm concerned

you're really wrong on Vuh. you may not like it but most people do and it's not an album that in any way shape or form fits this thread.

Well

That was one of like seven albums I posited as fitting this thread. Eno's "The Drop" is surely the cake

I don't imagine many here have heard it, but I dragged out Steve Harley's Hobo with a Grin because of this thread, and it still sucks. I love all the early Cockney Rebel stuff, but this is so stuffed with LA session hacks, uninspired songwriting and bad singing, it's just ghastly. And Steve agreed:

"I looked at that LP the other day – looking is enough. I can't bear to listen to it. It's the worst thing I've ever done. I just want to forget about it. Trash. In fact, I'm getting the old Cockney Rebel band together for a concert in London at the end of this month. And there won't be one song from the "Hobo with a Grin" LP in the set."[11]

xxp I actually get what you are saying about Royal Trux, think you make a good point, and personally interact the same way with Bob Drake's music.

The Drop doesn't really fix this either. It's not that left-field. It's not super memorable but it's hardly way way way out of the ordinary weird and bad for him.

Modulate by Bob Mould might fit though. I don't like it. I dont' know anyone who does. Maybe someone does.

The Wedding Present's Ukranian album probably qualifies.

Really wish I could un-read fgti's little yarn

Might be some Piano Magic and I'd be surprised if Kozelek doesn't have something that would fit someday.

I guess this kind of doesn't count, but it's not far away. As much as I adored Yeah Yeah Yeahs in the 00's - they made 3 fucking great albums, the reviews (and cover, g'damn) of Mosquito made it so I've never actually heard it.

Maybe that's off course? They didn't come back from it. Is it worth hearing?

^Albums you have spurned

Still not sure if albums from bands that have had a significant membership change should count here. Nevertheless, the J Geils Band released an album without Peter Wolf and the results were this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=289lzL6Eit8

xp I spurned yes. Is it worth my time going there? I've literally not heard good word of it.

Really wish I could un-read fgti's little yarn

― #YABASIC (morrisp), Friday, September 13, 2019 1:33 PM (one hour ago)

rude

Nevertheless, the J Geils Band released an album without Peter Wolf and the results were this:

I remember that getting some FM airplay when it came out, for about a week. And iirc, Rolling Stone gave the album four stars, for some reason.

Piano Magic choice would probably be ‘Writers Without Homes’, except (a) i don’t really get why it is *so* bad and hated; (b) to the extent that I do get it, the complaint seems to be ‘it’s too Piano Magic’; and (c) I have no idea where its rep now sits vis a vis all the post-Disaffected albums that hardly anyone heard.

OTOH it’s a good choice in that they then rebounded with perhaps their best album in The Troubled Sleep Of..., give or take Low Birth Weight.

re: Kozelek i've gotten the impression that everything he's done after Benji has been too off course for me to bother with and the little i have heard of those records has been truly baffling

Writers is an amazing album and I think everyone likes it except Glen and that’s mostly to donate 4ad

I remember that getting some FM airplay when it came out, for about a week. And iirc, Rolling Stone gave the album four stars, for some reason.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

because they never give four or five star reviews to shitty records by "classic rock" bands obviously past their sell-by date..

Rude

Lol no it’s fine, I’ve replaced booze with weed in my life and I’m enjoying some giggly stoned late night moments

there are a fair few Sufjan albums that fit this well enough but The Age of Adz is absolutely not one of them, despite being a left-turn, and is his best work. Enjoy Your Rabbit fits in every way except it dates back to before his breakthrough with Michigan, but it's roundly ignored in his discography for more reasons than that, being an instrumental electronic album that bears no resemblance to the rest of his work and isn't that good. there's also The BQE, which is also very ignored as it's the instrumental score to a film he made. it's not as much of a departure as Enjoy Your Rabbit is and the combination of electronics and orchestration did signal the direction he went in with Age of Adz, but it still doesn't really resemble his song-based work that much.

― ufo, Thursday, September 12, 2019 10:23 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I have tried and tried with The Age of Adz but for me it belongs in this list.

― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Thursday, September 12, 2019 1:17 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Age of Adz is my favorite Sufjan record by a longshot. It's his true masterpiece (to date) in my opinion, and it feels more fitting for these times than it did when it was initially released, not to mention having aged beautifully. For an album to begin with a song like "Futile Devices" that explodes into this fantastic odyssey, and then to not just close with a song like "Impossible Soul," but to end with album with that final movement that brings you back down to earth and closes the capsule. Beautiful stuff.

I may have scrolled too fast, but Madonna I'm Breathless fits the bill (though I'll always rep for "Hanky Panky").

Also Kevin Ayers As Close As You Think. Never reissued, hard to find, never referenced even by diehard fans, and a terrible album that sounds foisted upon him during the nadir of his addiction.

I don't know what it means that I'm Breathless is my most-listened to Madonna album (also Ciccone Youth along with the s/t EP for Sonic Youth)

Tangerine Dream's Cyclone (1978) is unusual in that it has rock drums and a vocalist. It's odd - the basic sound is similar to the band's late-70s analogue records, but the sequencers are in the background more and there are lengthy flute solos. Unfortunately the vocalist sounds like a drunk man who broke into the studio and shouted over the backing tapes.

I've always wondered how fans of Lush think of the band. They started off as a shoegazing band, but for their one big commercial success they became cheeky cockney Britpop kids, and then they broke up, and when they came back in 2016 - "Out of Control" is really good! - they were shoegazing again. I assume they switched back to their former sound because Slowdive demonstrated that shoegaze was hip once more. Do Lush fans ignore Lovelife? When I was a kid Lush was the band that did "Single Girl" and the one about the Fiat 500 and the other one, but I realise now that Britpop Lush was an aberration.

What does "Out of Control" remind me of? It sounds like something else.

In the Lush thread there was a linked piece by Miki and it suggested to me that the "cheeky" approach was at least in part a reaction to how some critics were treating their more vulnerable songs.

Also on that thread I said "Out Of Control" reminded me of some Ween songs but I don't expect anyone else to agree.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Santa_Monica#/media/File%3AEverclear_Return_to_Santa_Monica_(album)_2011.jpg

Everclear - Return to Santa Monica

ufo and Josh I will give it more time then, because when Sufjan hits he hits hard

Killing Joke's 'Outside the Gate' album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDnKEk8byiY

That house album which the Style Council made just before the end. The record company refused to release it. I think it eventually turned up in the box set of their complete works some time in the late 1990s.

Morrissey's recent covers album.

The Beach Boys - s/t album from 1985 and everything thereafter

Anything from Cabaret Voltaire post-1990.

The Beach Boys - s/t album from 1985 and everything thereafter

nah there is absolutely good stuff on the last one

Frank Sinatra’s Trilogy: Past, Present, Future, but especially the “Future” disc.

That house album which the Style Council made just before the end. The record company refused to release it. I think it eventually turned up in the box set of their complete works some time in the late 1990s.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Friday, October 11, 2019 7:09 AM

modernism: a new decade is actually really good, for what it is. sounds nothing like tsc before they made it, but that was kind of the point.

I guess some might say that even "hardcore" fans needn't bother with the last few Black Flag albums.

Frank Sinatra’s Trilogy does have his "Theme for New York New York", which is one of those songs one forgets was recorded in the 80s.

But yes, The "Future" part is pretty wild.

Celtic Frost: Cold Lake.

How do people feel about The Burning World?

I've always thought it was perfectly fine and not the aberration that it's kinda painted as, 'Saved' is a beautiful track as is the cover of 'Can't Find My Way Home', I don't really think it's *too* overproduced.

It's one of my favorite Swans albums.

I feel like most of Lovelife could’ve easily fit on Split, obv not Ciao or 500.

Would Mott The Hoople's "Wild Life" count?

It's not a bad album, but imagine if thin lizzys third album sounded more like The Eagles. You wouldn't prefer that if you liked the other albums..

I think The Burning World is the best Swans album. That might make me a pussy, whatever.

Never heard the whole record, but that synth pop record that Jack Bruce made that was only released in Germany is definitely an outlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-siie-F4DY&list=OLAK5uy_my9jydYfDlS8BGpdfs7dQTwaEiW1hXA9c

Anything from Cabaret Voltaire post-1990.