The future of music made to sound like the past

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While old things sound good, I believe it's a law of nature that when a new thing is tooled to seem like it was from the past, it might sound pleasing at first, but it won't last. I suppose in a way it's a kind of rockist belief in authenticity: that there's some soul of an old thing that can't be faked.

When my ears are suspicious of an old-sounding thing I haven't heard before, on Spotify Discover Weekly or whatever, I leap to check whether it's some retro effort produced to sound like it's from 1972. If it is I tend to dismiss it, confident in the knowledge it'll never mean all that much to me for long so I shouldn't pay it too much attention.

How do you feel about this kind of thing? Does it ever persist?

Example that brought this to mind I heard yesterday: Blue Vein by Lael Neale. They call it 'timeless' but it seems very much just 'of an earlier time' to me:

Guy Blakeslee, who helped Lael Neale with the accompaniment and the engineering, referred to the concept of ‘lost tapes’ – they wanted to situate the album “out of the context of time”. The idea of the lost tapes sitting in an attic waiting to be discovered reminds me of the found discography of Sibylle Baier and Connie Converse, and the hissing 4-track cassette recorder adds to the vintage feeling that is not devoid of the context of time but, rather, is timeless.

Alba, Thursday, 18 March 2021 00:24 (one month ago) link

I think that retro fetishism only bothers me if all of the effort went into making sure the production fit an authentic aesthetic and songcraft/performance took a back seat. I loved Amy Winehouse's Back to Black because she did both well, though you'd never mistake the recordings from something from the 60s - it just had that production style, cleaned up for today.

"Salvation Army FUCK!" (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 March 2021 00:28 (one month ago) link

Yeah, maybe it's something akin to the uncanny valley effect that bothers me about things like Lael Neale. I agree that Back to Black doesn't fit this – while it very heavily leaned into the past it didn't try to pass itself off as it.

Alba, Thursday, 18 March 2021 00:32 (one month ago) link

I’m on the record claiming that nostalgia is bad not good, but on the other hand it’d be a cute gimmick to create a fake 80s song, for a movie set in the 80s or whatever, or a realistic fake Mozart or something if you needed to have a character discover a lost sonata in autograph in a Viennese attic and then get caught in the middle of multiple criminal collectors trying to steal it, leading to a climactic scene where the work in question is being played by a long-haired French man in a Swiss concert hall and our protagonist is clinging to a catwalk with the menacing Portuguese criminal mastermind and decadent aesthete grinding his heel into the other’s fingers, until his (the mastermind’s) throat is slit by the Hong Kong femme fatale who seduced our hero back in act 2 and then thought she got away with the manuscript, but had taken a decoy portfolio, and now she’s back to save our hero and give up her life of crime…or is she?

Canon in Deez (silby), Thursday, 18 March 2021 00:35 (one month ago) link

Yes, that's OK.

Alba, Thursday, 18 March 2021 00:37 (one month ago) link

Ok cool

Canon in Deez (silby), Thursday, 18 March 2021 00:54 (one month ago) link

Dukes of Stratosphear are always gonna be the gold standard in this

frogbs, Thursday, 18 March 2021 00:56 (one month ago) link

I've always felt intuitively that you can hear the difference between a real period recording and a retro copy, and that this difference has to do with the fact that the retro copy is made to a formula, admitting no surprises, whereas the people who made the original were in a sense... going for it... or winging it... or unsure on some level of how it would all come out. Thus the original will have a subtle edge or exciting quality that the copy will lack.

Josefa, Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:07 (one month ago) link

Dukes of Stratosphear are always gonna be the gold standard in this

I just gave them a quick listen. I wonder if they sounded more plausibly 60s when the records came out. Now the 80s production really shines through, like garish eye shadow in an old Jane Austen adaptation.

Alba, Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:15 (one month ago) link

I've always felt intuitively that you can hear the difference between a real period recording and a retro copy, and that this difference has to do with the fact that the retro copy is made to a formula, admitting no surprises, whereas the people who made the original were in a sense... going for it... or winging it... or unsure on some level of how it would all come out. Thus the original will have a subtle edge or exciting quality that the copy will lack.

Agree with all of this, plus no matter how hard you try to emulate the sound of vintage gear, even down to recording on tape, there's always gonna be one link (or more) in your signal chain that's modern and up-to-date, whether it's in the recording process or a piece of gear, which is gonna rub away some of the "old-ness" and reveal the modern artifice beneath.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:18 (one month ago) link

Simon Reynolds book Retromania covers this

curmudgeon, Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:24 (one month ago) link

it’d be a cute gimmick to create a fake 80s song, for a movie set in the 80s or whatever

A few years ago, I fantasized about making a movie set in the late '80s / early '90s, but with a soundtrack entirely made up of modern songs that stylistically pay tribute to that era. (I imagined the Courtneys' "Lost Boys" playing over the end credits.)

beer drops on my keytar (morrisp), Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:32 (one month ago) link

Was thinking of making a post like this recently after shazaming various tracks on rinse fm mixes then discovering they were recent and being disappointed. But maybe I'm hypocritical as I like stuff with a retro edge like tame impala or aerial pink. But I'm particularly disappointed when this happens with dance music and modern pop, eg the weeknds latest songs (which maybe arent 100% dead ringers for 80s hits but want you to imagine they are)

candyman, Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:34 (one month ago) link

Do you have examples from the mixes?

I think looking at stuff through this lens is beginning to matter less, and judging by the above is often more a result of post-hoc rationalisation based on information received rather than anything inherent

anvil, Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:44 (one month ago) link

A telltale sign of how much I enjoy a particular subgenre is my tolerance for shameless copycats. I have no interest whatsoever in contemporary hardcore punk bands that straight-up emulate the Dead Kennedys, whereas I have plenty of time for the latter's original recordings because they sizzle with the energy of discovery. Yet when it comes to, say, old school death metal revivalists, I'll gladly listen even if it's clear they'll never live up to Dismember's Like an Ever-Flowing Stream or Incantation's Onward to Golgotha or (take your pick).

There are exceptions, however. Contemporary classical music that audibly wishes the 20th century never happened goes straight into the garbage pile, for example. Schubert sounds way more of our time than anything these people are attempting.

pomenitul, Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:48 (one month ago) link

It is mattering less and I've tried to be less bothered, and I am, but it still feels just that little bit less impressive, unlessits just a really great song, ora total club banger, etc

I'll try to find the examples
Just remembered shazam doesnt always get release dates right

candyman, Thursday, 18 March 2021 01:49 (one month ago) link

the retromania thing is just a nostalgia for a lack of context isn’t it

does this apparently revivalist stuff sound that bad if you’re unfamiliar with the “originals”?

nothing (Left), Thursday, 18 March 2021 08:13 (one month ago) link

also at this point we should probably treat the 90s as a kind of detour or interlude instead of calling everything 80s revival

nothing (Left), Thursday, 18 March 2021 08:18 (one month ago) link

I've always felt intuitively that you can hear the difference between a real period recording and a retro copy, and that this difference has to do with the fact that the retro copy is made to a formula, admitting no surprises, whereas the people who made the original were in a sense... going for it... or winging it... or unsure on some level of how it would all come out. Thus the original will have a subtle edge or exciting quality that the copy will lack.

Yeah I'd say there's truth to this - I think the other thing is that with deliberately retro music you often get a conflation of different sources and stylistic elements that signify the genre/era but which might only have been present in one particular band or record, so you end up with a sort of generic, vague sound.

Gavin, Leeds, Thursday, 18 March 2021 09:27 (one month ago) link

I had that feeling listening to a playlist of synthwave artists, they were all based on this idea of a monolithic '80s' rhythmic pattern, whereas real 80s synthpop music often had much more rhythmic complexity.

mirostones, Thursday, 18 March 2021 09:43 (one month ago) link

This is similar to films and TV programmes set in the 70s, for instance, where they spend an inordinate amount of time getting the art direction flawlessly correct, to the very last detail - then you see something like "The Sweeney" and realize they haven't even come close to recreating the 70s.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2021 09:57 (one month ago) link

For a start, not everything in the 70s was actually from the 70s, there was plenty of old stuff still around.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2021 09:59 (one month ago) link

Older.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2021 09:59 (one month ago) link

Xpost!

Yeah, these things always ignore the fact that people hold onto old cars, furniture etc years after they were manufactured - an early 70s street would have as many 60s (even 50s) motors as brand new models.

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 18 March 2021 10:04 (one month ago) link

God, I saw some footage from like the late 80s/early 90s recently and it looked like the 70s!

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2021 10:09 (one month ago) link

is the contention of this thread that retro revival stuff is a relatively new and bad thing, or just that it is a thing

nothing (Left), Thursday, 18 March 2021 10:18 (one month ago) link

I'm most interested in whether it unavoidably limits the value of a song. And whether that's because it kills the heart of it, or just some fetishism in my own head that rejects facsimile. I know some people think that some technical flaw will always give it away anyway, but for the sake of argument, if the whole production chain was done perfectly, would the problem (for those of us who think of it as one) come down to something in our own heads, or something in the heads of the creator?

Alba, Thursday, 18 March 2021 12:34 (one month ago) link

There seems to be a lot of soul music being produced like this at the moment. Certainly whenever I hear the Craig Charles Funk & Soul show he plays a couple of them on 7 inch, hand-cut on lathes or whatever. I imagine them being bought by 60 y/o blokes with Paul Weller haircuts, but meaybe that's my own prejudice.
I am against it.

mahb, Thursday, 18 March 2021 12:53 (one month ago) link

Soul is an interesting case, especially when it comes to singers recording in that style when they're old enough to have been recorded in it the first time round. I can't think of his name now, but there's a singer in his 70s or 80s who recently recorded a single that totally fooled me that it was from the 60s or early 70s. His career had never really taken off back then and it was hard to be sniffy about it.

Alba, Thursday, 18 March 2021 13:20 (one month ago) link

As a member of a retro soul band I can confirm that Mahbs suspicions are precisely correct.

29 facepalms, Thursday, 18 March 2021 13:31 (one month ago) link

it's funny though with all that post Daptone stuff I can always tell

part of it is how crunchy the drums are, people who were first exposed to classic soul through samples is my theory

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 13:36 (one month ago) link

the retromania thing is just a nostalgia for a lack of context isn’t it

Either that or an illusorily fixed context that you can readily grasp because it feels finished, complete, like a museum exhibit, by way of contrast with the disorienting surfeit of context that characterizes the here and now.

pomenitul, Thursday, 18 March 2021 13:44 (one month ago) link

"part of it is how crunchy the drums are, people who were first exposed to classic soul through samples is my theory"

i thought this was their concession to modernity, albeit sounding like 90s breakbeats, so still retro, but just another period. this is kinda how i hear a lot of adrian younge, or even sault to an extent. the drums are so obviously trying to be 90s hip hop, i find it a bit distracting at times.

candyman, Thursday, 18 March 2021 13:49 (one month ago) link

I had that feeling listening to a playlist of synthwave artists, they were all based on this idea of a monolithic '80s' rhythmic pattern, whereas real 80s synthpop music often had much more rhythmic complexity.

i'd assume this is because some synthwave stuff started out imitating a particular 80s style & then the rest of the genre became about imitating those imitators rather than imitating 80s synthpop more broadly

ufo, Thursday, 18 March 2021 13:53 (one month ago) link

I think some of these revivals-- for instance the retro vibe running from Amy Winehouse through Adele to Megan Trainor and others--have lasted longer than the original sound did

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Thursday, 18 March 2021 13:57 (one month ago) link

i want to like leon bridges etc but a lot of it just too cosy

candyman, Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:01 (one month ago) link

Dukes of the Stratosphear is also what leapt to mind when I opened this thread, and yes, they don't really sound authentically 60s, but that's what's kind of so great about them: despite the studied pastiche, they can't really get away from sounding like XTC, yet they are also much better than XTC.

Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:05 (one month ago) link

the synthwave stuff I've heard (no expert) sounds more like it evolved from John Carpenter soundtracks or some of the more commercial Tangerine Dream 80s soundtrack stuff than synthpop

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:09 (one month ago) link

+ 8 and 16 bit video game music

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:09 (one month ago) link

candyman at 8:49 18 Mar 21

"part of it is how crunchy the drums are, people who were first exposed to classic soul through samples is my theory"

i thought this was their concession to modernity, albeit sounding like 90s breakbeats, so still retro, but just another period. this is kinda how i hear a lot of adrian younge, or even sault to an extent. the drums are so obviously trying to be 90s hip hop, i find it a bit distracting at times.

that could be too, same effect either way

it's funny when I actually listen to old r&b, soul, motown etc the drums, kick, snare aren't nearly as loud as you think of them being

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:11 (one month ago) link

On the original Dukes of Stratosfear mini-LP there was definitely a more concerted effort to get the sounds exactly right, on the subsequent LP it sounds like they pretty much gave up on that, with one or two exceptions, too much like hard work I expect.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:12 (one month ago) link

it's funny when I actually listen to old r&b, soul, motown etc the drums, kick, snare aren't nearly as loud as you think of them being

The tambourines are though

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:14 (one month ago) link

haha yep

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:20 (one month ago) link

also at this point we should probably treat the 90s as a kind of detour or interlude instead of calling everything 80s revival

― nothing (Left), Thursday, March 18, 2021 4:18 AM (six hours ago)

this is an interesting if highly parochial idea

rob, Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:24 (one month ago) link

obviously all these order-imposing narratives are in some sense bullshit. you can pick them up & put them down for whatever purpose

nothing (Left), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:33 (one month ago) link


i'd assume this is because some synthwave stuff started out imitating a particular 80s style & then the rest of the genre became about imitating those imitators rather than imitating 80s synthpop more broadly


The Joe Bonamassa Effect

Bruno Ganz and Babaloo Mandel (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:34 (one month ago) link

xp
sorry Left, I actually wrote a longer post thinking about the idea more seriously but I bored myself and deleted it. Suffice to say I basically agree that if "80s mostly US/UK pop" or other 80s genres had been given a more specific name, the "80s revival" stuff might not seem so mired in retroism / nostalgia

rob, Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:42 (one month ago) link

does post-disco work or is that too vague/specific/offbase? i guess you'd have to define it more expansively than usual

nothing (Left), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:45 (one month ago) link

Synthpop probably would cover a lot of the bases tbh, except that as a name it already sounds kind of retro

rob, Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:50 (one month ago) link

I keep thinking of that Black Pumas record, which was a big retro soul NPR/Starbucks-y record with some good songs and impressively '60s one-man-band production. But it did land a little too heavily on the side of cosplay.

Even that Raphael Saadiq run of albums where he was wearing suits in the studio and everything had something modern to recommend them...like Matt says it was clearly influenced by breakbeats and hip-hop as much as the original stuff, and you'd never actually mistake those records for (instant) vintage.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:50 (one month ago) link

if "80s mostly US/UK pop" or other 80s genres had been given a more specific name, the "80s revival" stuff might not seem so mired in retroism / nostalgia

I take your point, but how does, say, post-punk fit into this model?

pomenitul, Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:54 (one month ago) link

Right that's a good example: if that had been called something other than "post-punk" which locates the music in a pretty specific era (I mean yes, anything after 1977 could technically be "post-punk" but it makes punk an important point of reference, which is no longer relevant), would it seem less revivalist? Indie might make a good counterpoint.

I guess what I'm asking is: what's different about rock, folk, jazz, classical, rap, or what have you, where those genres can endure and produce new-but-recognizably-generic works without being revivalist? Admittedly, the thread is def not about this question.

rob, Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:58 (one month ago) link

i'd assume this is because some synthwave stuff started out imitating a particular 80s style & then the rest of the genre became about imitating those imitators rather than imitating 80s synthpop more broadly

― ufo, Thursday, March 18, 2021 9:53 AM (fifty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is definitely true IMO in regards to shoegaze or indie pop bands accused of rehashing late 80s early 90s styles. Easy to spot because the punk edge to those classic acts are often instead replaced with a glossiness that isn’t true to the originators.

Evan, Thursday, 18 March 2021 14:58 (one month ago) link

what's different about rock, folk, jazz, classical, rap, or what have you, where those genres can endure and produce new-but-recognizably-generic works without being revivalist?

It's a very good question. I'll have to ponder it but I suspect others will come up with much better answers anyway.

pomenitul, Thursday, 18 March 2021 15:01 (one month ago) link

Is that true though? Anyone making boom-bap rap now is either going to sound revivalist, or putting a spin on an old style. Same for anyone making jazz with swing and walking basslines.

I think a lot of it has to do with how either the rhythm or production has changed over the years. Maybe folk and classical get away with being less tied to a decade/period because those elements are not central? Or maybe I'm just not in touch enough with the melodic/compositional elements over different modern eras for those styles.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2021 15:55 (one month ago) link

i can't believe that other post-prefixed word hasn't come up yet, admirable restraint

nothing (Left), Thursday, 18 March 2021 16:04 (one month ago) link

Is that true though? Anyone making boom-bap rap now is either going to sound revivalist, or putting a spin on an old style.

but isn't everything putting a spin on an old style? I feel like the axis descended from Roc Marciano's Marcberg (Conway the Machine, Westside Gunn, Benny the Butcher, Boldy James, Ka, Elcamino, Rome Streetz late period DJ Muggs, Daringer production in general) def has a big connection to the 90s but they way they do things, so much more minimal, less drums on a lot of it, def feels new and I wouldn't ever say that was recorded in 96

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 16:08 (one month ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c24Wp4N34oA

nothing (Left), Thursday, 18 March 2021 16:16 (one month ago) link

jesus that is terrible

this is how you write a song called "ice station zebra"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzWBUtnqJ4I

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 16:19 (one month ago) link

actually silkworm is an example of a band that embraced classic rock without seeming retro

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 16:20 (one month ago) link

Sure, I just assume there must be some unspun trad boom bap stuff that I don't hear. :)

This is your zone, you would know best. I guess it's like anything else, you have to be in tune with the style to catch some of those spins.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2021 16:22 (one month ago) link

no matter how hard you try to emulate the sound of vintage gear, even down to recording on tape, there's always gonna be one link (or more) in your signal chain that's modern and up-to-date, whether it's in the recording process or a piece of gear, which is gonna rub away some of the "old-ness" and reveal the modern artifice beneath.

But as a listener that's really fine by me. When I put on The Chesterfield Kings' debut it mimics the looks and sound of a 60s album very closely, but it's a knowing recreation done by a band in the 80s. I like the songs and the sound though, so the provenance doesn't matter to me. And I've been listening to it for about 40 years, so I don't really understand "it'll never mean all that much to me for long so I shouldn't pay it too much attention."

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 18 March 2021 16:24 (one month ago) link

Yeah---and this thread has certain albums coming back through my head once again, as they frequently do, ones that dealt w living in time as implicit-to-explicit subject and experience and basic material, personal and other history: John Wesley Harding, Sgt. Pepper's, Workingman's Dead, Music From Bog Pink---and they weren't going for retro-revivalism-recreation of an exact previous musical instance: it's all the present tense, the transience of that, the effect of ideas and memories of past-present-future, as evoked by musical powers of association (strategic, but also knowing when to get out of the way and let it flow like it will anyway, through various points of view, who knows what isolated and shared fanverses). Which is pretty much what I get from Sault's 2020 albums (haven't heard the previous).
(Also, in Lieber & Stoller's joint autobio, they talk about how their writing and production of "Is That All There Is?" for Peggy Lee was viewed with some trepidation by suits: would it seem like a bummer, man, in thee midst of Go-Go Sixties? No, it was one of her biggest hits; a lot of people related.)

dow, Thursday, 18 March 2021 17:03 (one month ago) link

Music From Big Pink too.

dow, Thursday, 18 March 2021 17:04 (one month ago) link

And I've been listening to it for about 40 years, so I don't really understand "it'll never mean all that much to me for long so I shouldn't pay it too much attention."

That's what interests me, Dan: how specific my own experience is. I'm glad to hear you have different one. I think a reviewer's words about Brian Wilson's completed Smile have always haunted me: he said that he predicted that though it was technically a good job, people wouldn't be listening to it much in a few years time. At the time I was a bit defensive, as I loved the project, but he's kind of right. I hardly ever listen to it now, whereas if it had actually come out in 1967, I probably would.

Alba, Thursday, 18 March 2021 17:21 (one month ago) link

tbf only reason I stopped listening to it was because the Beach Boys finally released official versions of the Sessions.

I imagine if bootlegs were the only option, I'd have continued much longer with the Wilson version, which I actually got into probably 5 years after it came out

"Salvation Army FUCK!" (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 March 2021 17:25 (one month ago) link

This was my first thought:

https://cdn.hmv.com/r/w-1280/p-webp/hmv/files/af/afccfb4d-d564-450b-b85d-7f6329543c99.jpg

mahb, Thursday, 18 March 2021 18:08 (one month ago) link

yeah he was jansch worship at first

really moved on from that in cool directions though

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 18:11 (one month ago) link

Haven't listened to any version of any of the xp Smile material for several years, but I remember my favorite takes from the original sessions as great but seeming overall like a merry blur, like what was the ultimate point, but with the Nonesuch album---incl. working again w Van Dyke Parks, incl. on even more uneartherd bits, but at reasonable length etc, and I think they wrote/revised some more---I felt like I got it re the views of American history as remembered/filtered through pop culture and other layers of personal haze and speculative fiction and 60s shifts, now ongoing through finally getting it together, that late mastery and the ageing voice, of artistry and the body---I wrote at the time, "He's thee old Boy in The Bubble, just keeps rollin' along."
Although, while finding the Wondermints effective, I did miss the original voices---if somebody could airlift those into the Nonesuch Smile, and post the results, I'd 'ppreciate it.

dow, Thursday, 18 March 2021 18:12 (one month ago) link

original voices of the other Boys, that is; I like old Brian just fine, rasping out of the corner of his mouth and all.

dow, Thursday, 18 March 2021 18:16 (one month ago) link

otm

i think brian wilson presents smile is a better overall work...but the way it sounds like the past/not like the past is pretty much what this thread is about

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 18:58 (one month ago) link

xpost - i always feel like there's a certain degree of autotune going on with brian

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 March 2021 18:59 (one month ago) link

that's why they call him b-pain

voodoo chili, Thursday, 18 March 2021 19:09 (one month ago) link

lol

"Salvation Army FUCK!" (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 March 2021 19:16 (one month ago) link

I'm on a sloooooop

rob, Thursday, 18 March 2021 19:17 (one month ago) link

Stripper Girl

"Salvation Army FUCK!" (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 March 2021 19:31 (one month ago) link


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