NYT 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

Yeah ok

Individual ballots from musicians/industry folks are interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/04/27/magazine/critics-pick-greatest-american-songwriters.html

(For instance, Dua Lipa submitted only one name: Patti Smith.)

Surprised that Tom Waits didn't end up on the list, with the number of people who had him on their ballots.

Also kind of shocked that Jagger/Richards didn't end up on a single ballot.

It's American songwriters which tbf i also missed

when i glanced at that article on the nyt website and saw mariah carey front and knew immediately ILX would be polling this.

not to knock her, but when every song post-Butterfly generally has 2-3 writers attached to it, you kinda lose that songwriter label in my book.

i would've put joanna newsom on there

Dammit, searched for this and didn't see it. Mods please feel free to delete my post.

No Randy Newman, jeesh.

Billy Bragg agrees with that (Joanna Newsom).

Jeff Tweedy is one of three who voted for Jeff Tweedy.

David Byrne put Olivia Rodrigo, though she has few solo credits.

Billy Joel got votes but didn't make it.

Looked at the individual ballots, which I found interesting. Stephin Merritt isn't mentioned by anyone, yet he's (rightfully) on the list. Am I missing something? I guess that's just a sampling of the ballots?

also, if they're going to lump josh osborne, brandy clark and shane mcanally as one, it's completely unforgiveable to not include the wu-tang clan in the list.

It's American songwriters which tbf i also missed

ohhh that makes so much more sense now. I woke up and immediately read the article pre-coffee.

I guess that's just a sampling of the ballots?

yeah there were 250 ballots, which were then aggregated and whittled down by NYT critics. sounds like the critics automatically included the very top vote-getters and then collectively decided on the rest.

More about the.methodology:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/04/27/magazine/greatest-living-songwriters-methodology.html

*extremely gigantic eyeroll*

respect to jeff tweedy for voting for himself

not too offensive of a list, but this made me go back to check if jimmy webb was still alive and turns out, he is.

Dammit, searched for this and didn't see it. Mods please feel free to delete my post.

― TO BE A JAZZ SINGER YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCAT (Jazzbo), Tuesday, 28 April 2026 14:59 (twenty-three minutes ago)

Locked it for you.

berry gordy's list also had tow major snubs imo: gamble & huff, mike stoller

*two

I know this is a popularity contest as much as anything but David Berman is the first person I would make sure was on there.

i have some tragic news

not to knock her, but when every song post-Butterfly generally has 2-3 writers attached to it, you kinda lose that songwriter label in my book.

― My homies buttthole surfers' record sounds like a f (Western® with Bacon Flavor),

So if you co-write songs you're less of a songwriter?

As I said on the other thread:

Would be more interested in Greatest Active American Songwriters. The Greatest People Who Did Their Great-Ass Shit 60 Years Ago just isn't that compelling of an article premise.

― peace, man, Tuesday, April 28, 2026 10:21 AM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

That being said, Joni Mitchell not being included on the main list or any of the nomination lists is appalling. She's American enough.

xp yeah Alfred i was going to ramble about "what is a songwriter?" but I'm not hopped up enough for that yet, your question is more concise and yeah please let's not reduce this to lovers in their garrets ffs

"Loners in their garrets" I thought i typed but that is a pleasing typo

I'm not gonna argue that anybody should be excluded from the list (I have never heard a Young Thug song) but yeah, Tom Waits feels like a major omission. Would also argue for Dwight Yoakam.

lol what a shitty fucking list. the NYT is such a piece of shit

"Loners in their garrets" I thought i typed but that is a pleasing typo

― einmal ist keinmal (Noodle Vague),

love the typo!

Jody Rosen said on Bsky:

"We felt it was maybe not the best moment, geopolitically speaking, for a bunch of Americans to lay claim to a Canadian just because she's awesome."

https://bsky.app/profile/jodyrosen.bsky.social/post/3mkkkvssfqs2h

the sad thing for me is that a lot of current and former ILX0rs have more interesting and valuable critical insights and _used_ to be able to, like, share those insights professionally, but now it's all down to the fucking New York Times and Jeff Tweedy saying "I think Jeff Tweedy is one of the Greatest American Songwriters" which I read as the equivalent of a cocked eyebrow, I mean list like these are always sus, but folks here could at least make canon-building clickbait like this _interesting_.

the fucking _new york times_. fuck. god, america sucks right now. who the fuck cares about who the greatest living american _anything_ is in 2026? david berman is a more authentic reflection of 2026 america than bob dylan is.

one thing to note is that both this list and the NYT's 100 greatest films of the 21st century list were based primarily on votes from industry insiders. NYT staff then used those votes to produce a final list, which obviously entailed making some editorial decisions in favor of some selections over others. but I have to imagine they would be different lists if they were based only on the critics' own picks.

I think what imago was trying to point out upthread is that David Berman is not a living songwriter. He died, lads, he died.

I liked Jay-Z's insights shared in that video.

So if you co-write songs you're less of a songwriter?

― boners for bombs (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 April 2026 15:37 (twenty-four minutes ago)

I'm going to say no, but I do think it's harder to know what parts someone is responsible for if they're always working with a songwriting team. Maybe they wrote most of their songs, maybe they changed a couple of words, it's just more difficult to tell.

(NB I think Mariah Carey's songs suck ass so I don't care if she writes with a team, my comment is meant more generally)

She writes the melodies and always writes the lyrics, which one can tell because she's (in)famous for the polysyllabic drop.

re: solo songwriters vs co-songwriters, I wonder if Donald Fagen and Walter Becker would have made the list as duo if Becker wasn't dead?

should be on the list: Rickie Lee Jones, August Darnell

Personally, I think it's funny that this list has managed to rile up dudes who are annoyed at the omission of rootsy folk-influenced songwriters like Jason Isbell. Sure, Isbell is a good songwriter from what I have heard, but it's a style of songwriting that some people treat as objectively superior to other styles and whose belief in the greatness of musicians who employ it is often largely based on that notion. These people might begrudgingly admit that Mariah Carey has some catchy tunes, but she cannot be a great musical artist in their eyes because she is not a great songwriter as they define it. Including her on this list undermines their premise.

having jermaine dupri vote on the best living songwriters in america and then leaving him off the list for young thug and lana del rey is some sick shit

xp yeah jay all of that is true but it's 2026 and we're far too tired to keep arguing this nonsense surely?

Anyway in re the vote it's ridiculous I refuse to pick one unless there's a particular choice that will get maximum rise out of the Campaign For Real Songwriting

Though there's about 10 of these I don't know well, I'd vote Lana Del Rey for consistency or Dylan for scope.
I'd have put George Clinton on the list or, if I was looking to cause arguments, the Friedbergers.

Or the Maels.

The results are kind of hilarious. Can see fans of X singer-songwriter melting down over Bad Bunny, etc.

probably will vote for stevie, but only because it feels weird to vote for the hollands without dozier

On Bluesky, Ann Powers mentioned Trent Reznor as an omission.

john fogerty

I mean, seriously. I don't even know what the standard/criteria is. Overall career/impact? Lyricists? Teams? Do they have to be active? What about other producer/writers like Timbaland or Pharrell? Lots of Americana or folk-adjacent acts, plus survivors like Paul Westerberg or whomever? Chrissie Hynde? Jimmy Webb? What about Madonna? Tom Waits? Etc.

Basically, lists are dumb.

A lot of votes for Tom Waits and Billy Joel on those ballots, but they didn’t make it for whatever reason. At least one for Westerburg too. A lot of the criteria seems to be ‘people I’d like to work with.’

is that sarcasm

No, he got his last name from a cover of a Velvet Underground song and his first is a shortened version of Edgar Winter's classic hit.

Föur Seåsons

many examples of A&Rs convincing upcoming bands to do a cover song as a single

"you're great, love your work, but maybe what you need right now is to do your own take on this classic tune, really show what you've got"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC7hL_Fn5Vs

Camper Van Beethoven Sonic Youthed so that they could Status Quo.

Not enough wackiness in the list. Where is the Campers, the Giants, the Weens?

xp why sarcasm?

Damn it, what about King Missile?

“Fluting On The Hump!”

God I temporarily forgot about the CVB cover of Matchstick Men. Also they did Wasted on their first album, much better choice than TV party

I'm a big fan of popular crate-digger covers that people don't know are covers. "Tainted Love," "Always Something There to Remind Me," "Pictures of Matchstick Men," "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)," "Girls Just Want to Have Fun," "What's Love Got to Do With It," "I Love Rock n Roll," etc. There were a lot of those in the '80s, not to mention no less than three (!) hit covers of songs made famous by Tommy James.

"Rock On" by Michael Damien.

Devo "Working in a Coal Mine" too

not to mention no less than three (!) hit covers of songs made famous by Tommy James.

Two of which were back-to-back #1s.

Get laid, get fucked

hey guess what your goalie sucks

"Tainted Love," "Always Something There to Remind Me," "Pictures of Matchstick Men," "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)," "Girls Just Want to Have Fun," "What's Love Got to Do With It," "I Love Rock n Roll,"

"I Want Candy"

"Betty Davis Eyes" "The Tide is High" "Venus" "Red Red Wine" "Lean On Me" "Got My Mind Set On You" "Cum On Feel the Noize" "Sea of Love" "Smokin' in the Boys Room" etc.

feels relevant to mention that the greatest living american songwriter, frank ocean, made his name with some stunning covers

― gospodin simmel, Tuesday, June 2, 2026 4:33 PM (yesterday)

this is a pretty good call -- "made his name" is a major stretch, even in the early days he made his name off his original songs (novacane, swim good, thinking about you) but it's definitely true that the cover/interpolation aspect of 'nostalgia ultra' was an important factor in how people perceived him at the time & he has obv released some covers over the years that people really adore

NY Times Readers' Top 100 (gift link, and there's a "condensed version" to view the list)

No big surprises, mostly filling out the names we'd think were missing from the 30.

Unbelievable to me that Missy didn't make the Reader's Top 100

Trent Reznor down at #83 says a lot about the Times readership.

Do you think Jeff tweedy voted for himself in the readers poll as well?

there's a one-time ilxor being repeatedly OTM in the comments to the reader list

a true poster

dear lord, i should've walked away when i saw the billy joel placement but managed to stick around for the jason isbell one. this is one of those classic "reasons why i don't subscribe to the NYT".

Joel was particularly likely to be chosen by people who voted for Garth Brooks, Don McLean or Barry Manilow.

hmmm an even shittier list

they both fail to be interesting, the worst kind of list in other words. but of course it "sparks debate" i guess that's all we have left of a culture at this point, the clicks

there's also mindlessly powerchugging new albums so we can be the first to tell the internet our valuable insights!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4XKNXMMvi4

I mean the readers list is really boring but I think the Top 30 is a far more accurate accounting of the 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

Joel was particularly likely to be chosen by people who voted for Garth Brooks, Don McLean or Barry Manilow.

LOLLLL

They write the songs that make the whole world sing

(Manilow of course did not actually write that song)

Written by Bruce from the Beach Boys!

I mean the readers list is really boring but I think the Top 30 is a far more accurate accounting of the 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

― EsBeeKid (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, June 4, 2026 2:18 AM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

For a guy with 25 merzbow cds or whatever your tastes sure run trad

it's not inconsistent to enjoy a wide variety of music and also hold a narrow definition of "songwriter"

like I don't think most Merzbow fans would call Masami Akita's output "songwriting"

xps Why hasn't a promoter put together a tour with Billy Joel, Barry Manilow and Don McLean? Because that's obviously a blockbuster triple-bill waiting to happen.

and Meezbow

it's not inconsistent to enjoy a wide variety of music and also hold a narrow definition of "songwriter"

― c u (crüt), Thursday, June 4, 2026 11:26 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

its not inconsistent to find it funny that the merzbow guy is glad billy joel is back on top where he belongs

I think its corny that the only good rap songwriter to The People is Kendrick Lamar, sorry

a stand-in for Acceptable Prestige

https://i.postimg.cc/JzVWhLLt/Capture.jpg

It's no longer visible, but for a while, there was a YouTube upload of a 1989 episode of Later where Bob Costas interviews Dave Marsh (promoting the just-released The Heart Of Rock & Soul: The 1001 Greatest Singles Every Made). Unprompted, Costas lays into him and the rock critic establishment for underrating Billy Joel, but Marsh wasn't moved. (IIRC he said something like "'We Didn't Start the Fire'? That's a bad rap song without a beat.")

I know three millennials with a tattoo of “Vienna” lyrics. Not a bad metric for songwriting quality. (I hope I’m not seen as the Merzbow Guy — screen name was just some timely wordplay.)

merzbow dn but i bet you can't even name 5 of their songs

you can play merzbow songs on an acoustic guitar and they still hold up

I didnt' realize that "in the mood for a melody" was a Billy Joel thing. I know that phrase from Robert Plant!