Her name was Pauline and she lived in a tree

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What's more 'rock', contraception or abortion? Sterilization? And what will music be like when the whole messy business is replaced by cloning?

tarden, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Hmm, tarden isn't very gender-specific is it? Let me hazard a guess... you're not a woman.

Madchen, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What about vasectomony?

x0x0

Norman Fay, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

When they perfect cloning I'd wager Elvis and John Lennon will be brought back from the dead, and we'll have to suffer endless revivals. Trust me, it'll happen.

DG, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Tarden, is this a coded 'problem page' type letter? I don't think basing birth control decisions on ILM posters' idea of rock is a very good idea. Write to a professional, like Margaret Cook.

what will music be like when the whole messy business is replaced by cloning?

I imagine the template will be Michel Houellebecq's rock music. To repeat a question someone else posed, has anyone heard it?

Nick, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Rock is genetically engineered women. Or is that pop?

Otis Wheeler, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Pop, duh.

Look at Christina Aguilera. I think she was made from Cher and that chick from Missing Persons' spare parts.

Nicole, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Abortions involve death metal = not rock. Fucking in the streets and worry about it later = rock. Music business is all about cloning already. Why's Pauline in a tree?

AP, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Cuz she comes from Bir-ming-ham

mark s, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

scraping out the uterus with a coat hanger is hardcore; cloning is handbag lite.

Geoff, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Christina Aguilera is an inevitable mistake in the road to the genetically engineered perfect woman.

Otis Wheeler, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Contraception is WAY more rock and roll! Condoms can be flavoured, abortions cannot!

Mike Hanley, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Surely an abortion would be fetus-flavored?

(No need to catcall me, I'm already deeply ashamed...)

Dan Perry, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

That's pretty hardcore that you would take your abortion straight. I'd have to add a little pepper, at least.

Kris, Friday, 1 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What on earth does the title of this thread mean?

the pinefox, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

BODIES: she was a girl from birmingham she just had an abortion she was case of insanity her name was pauline she lived in a tree she was a no one who killed her baby she sent her letter from the country she was an animal she was a bloody disgrase body i'm not an animal body i'm not an animal dragged on a table in factory illegitimate place to be in a packet in a lavatory die little baby screaming body screaming fucking bloody mess not an animal it's an abortion body i'm not animal mummy i'm not an abortion throbbing squirm, gurgling bloody mess i'm not an discharge i'm not a loss in protein i'm not a throbbing squirm fuck this and fuck that fuck it all and fuck the fucking brat she don't wanna baby that looks like that i don't wanna baby that looks like that body i'm not an animal body an abortion body i'm not an animal an animal i'm not an animal.. i'm not an abortion... mummy! ugh!

words & music: lydon/matlock/cook/jones

mark s, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I originally thought it was 'Fuck it all and fuck the fucking *blacks*'. Which disturbed me a great deal until I was put right, believe me.

DG, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

can't vouch, mind: just found it on some daft fanboy site, www.punkrock.co.uk or similar. (We've come a long way!) But yes, you can hear him, er, "file his teeth to points" on the rrrr's in brrrats: so that's OK. Back in the day, people really did get all "But what's his actual position?" abt BODIES, as if the full- on polylogue wasn't its ugly strength.

mark s, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It is 'brat', after it had been pointed out to me I heard it every time. But it was quite odd - NMTB being a critics fave and legendary album etc, I was shocked to hear what I thought was blatant racism. Now it just seems stupid - even if it was 'blacks' it wouldn't make any sense, would it? To the back of the class for a 15-year old DG.

DG, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Sorry, this thread is just a little too close to home right now.

I mean, honestly, I *know* you're just having your sick little fun here, and being all rebellious-cool talking about unacceptible subjects, but for FUCKS SAKE. This is just way too close to the fucking bone right now.

I can fucking bet you've never had to face the choice between killing your own child, or else running the risk that your child could destroy your health and end up killing you. Fucking PRAY you never have to face that decision. Then see if you're still laughing and making 'funny' little comments like these.

It's not funny, it's not cute, and it's not rock'n'roll.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I sympathise with Kate here, I must say.

I thought it was "blacks" too DG, which had me peg the whole thing as a 'character song'. There's still a lot of did-he-MEAN-it controversy over 'Bodies', as a quick search on google groups would verify.

Tom, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I agree. This topic isn't cool. There are people who feel very strongly about these sorts of things who are likely to stumble across this. I'm not talking about the pro-lifers or the pro-choice people either. There are some people who have to have abortions for medical reasons and dealing with that, with the thought that you have no choice but to kill a life you created in a wonderful loving relationship, as irrational a thought as some people might think it is, is one of the hardest things a human being should ever have to deal with. It's a stressful, personal decision, and it effects the parents profoundly. So yeah, quit trying to gross each other out and think about what you're saying.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It occurs to me that I have never, ever been able to sit all the way through _NMTB_.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Me and Kate in an agreeing AGAIN shocker. Are we becoming the same person? Stay tuned.

All I can say about this entire thread, to pretty much all participants, is grow the fuck up already. When I first read the question I figured it'd die, not get 20 some responses. Very bizarre.

Ally, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What? I was arguing for contracpetion instead of abortion.

Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

is this a good place to mention all the beautiful kurt cobain suicide jokes i've read in this forum and how hilarious they all are on a personal level? you can't forbid discussions about death just because the method of dying somehow offends or relates to you (and that is all an abortion is, a death). are we not allowed to talk about aids here? cancer? car accidents? i can sympathise, certainly, but i think to go off like you did was out of order. if a topic personally offends you, it's best to just stay away from it, not berate those who actually wish to discuss it. i didn't even see this stupid thread until today and find it not only offensive but unoriginal, and that is why i do not care to follow it any further. actually that's a good idea for all future topics like this, you know.

ethan, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

clarification; in the second person part of my post, 'you' = kate, who probably won't read this anyway.

ethan, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ethan: totally disagree. Nobody's saying anyone's "not allowed" to say stuff: if tastelessness was banned here the moderators would have waded in by now.

If you see something that offends you on the forum - or in general - you should just say so, not worry that people might see you as 'humourless' or 'PC' or whatever. Kate did this and good for her. And if you do go over the top then others will call you on it and that way people end up understanding each other better (or not talking, which on a public board is also fine). Dialogue != repression. Being offended by stuff shouldn't be uncool or whatever.

Tom, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ethan:

I have nothing against talking about The Big Issues. I have nothing against humour, even black humour, if it is used to diffuse the tension of talking about Big Issues. And actually, I find Kurt Cobain suicide jokes pretty offensive myself. I've lost friends to suicide and to drug addiction, and it's not fucking funny. It's childish, Beavis and Butthead "look at me, I'm so cool and rebellious and crude, chucking my poop around the nursery"

I am *not* pro-censorship. But I wish that some people would fucking THINK before they start spouting this crap. There would be no need for censorship, or administration at all if people could self-filter, and realise what is incendiary, and what is offensive, and what is just plain dumb and inappropriate for a public forum.

You know what? Free speach goes both ways. If these fucking creeps have the right to blather on with this offensive and childish stuff, then *I* have the fucking right to complain.

And FUCK YOU if you object to that.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

tom: i understand all of that, i just think that her outburst was out of order, like 'well how about YOU have a fucking abortion?!'. i mean, can i go to my golden age of hiphop thread and spit at the guy who said atcq were boring with a vicious obscenity-peppered rant? at least if you're personally offended by something you should take the blow-up to email or something, regardless of how personally it affects you. it's like the snl skit from a few years ago where a guy at a party starts drunkenly trashing everything and the host is freaking out and then somebody says 'no, it's okay, his parents were eaten by a bear'. asking 'what's more 'rock', contraception or abortion?' is hardly grounds for the response that she gave. lets maintain civility for christ's sake.

ethan, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

That's funny. I didn't realize the sentence, "No need to catcall me, I'm already ashamed," wasn't in English.

And of course, no one has (or will) respond to what I said about _Never Mind The Bollocks_.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ethan: this is exactly what I was saying. They have the right to start the thread, Kate has the right to react, you and I have the right to gauge K's reaction and say 'right on' or 'steady on', etc. etc. Same thing exactly would happen - did happen w/Neuro - if you got riled on a hip-hop thread. "Let's maintain civility" is great but stuff like this is needed occasionally to work out where the line dividing 'civility' from not actually *is*.

Tom, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

okay i posted before i saw kate's response, so, to kate:

you say "I wish that some people would fucking THINK before they start spouting this crap. There would be no need for censorship, or administration at all if people could self-filter, and realise what is incendiary, and what is offensive, and what is just plain dumb and inappropriate for a public forum." talking about abortion in the manner that these people were is hardly worthy of administrator action. jesus, most of the posts were about cloning pop stars anyway, is that dumb and inappropiate? (well, dumb, yes, but if we took everything dumb out of the forum...well, i won't finish that sentence). the abortion jokes were admittedly tasteless, but not any moreso than a million other suicide/drug addict/ sexist/racist/nazi/whatever things i've ever read here. there's a lot of stupid people, and a lot of people who act stupider than usual when the chance comes up, but they weren't expressing any anger or hatred in the way that i saw your post as doing, which i think IS inappropiate for the forum.

ethan, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

New thread started on the Pistols. Aren't I nice.

Tom, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ethan, that's all very well and good, but haven't you reacted pretty much the same way when confronted with something offensive to you?

Nicole, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

How can you say the jokes were tasteless? THey were ABOUT taste!

Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

nicole, i'll be the first to admit my initial response to that guy was stupid and brash, but i really had a point to make about disturbing misogyny and racism in his very-popular post. there's no point to be made about dumb abortion jokes unless you make some strenuous connection to sexism which wasn't even ever brought up.

ethan, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I don't think people should be told how they are supposed to respond to what's posted on the board.

You may not see that there was a point to made about this thread, I do think Kate had a point to make and had every reason to be offended. It's a matter of perspective. Because there are so many different people posting here there's likely to be big differences of opinion, but as long as people aren't trolling or out and out flaming one another (and I didn't see Kate's post as a flame) I don't see any reason to be telling people the proper form of action (or reaction). That's what C. Dolores Tucker et al. does.

Nicole, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

wait a minute, how is me telling kate that i don't think she should have posted what she did any different than her saying that everyone shouldn't have posted stuff about abortion, or any different than you telling me that i shouldn't have posted what i did to kate at first? you're telling me that you think i shouldn't tell other people what i think they shouldn't do?

ethan, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I can only see this leading to some sort of closed-loop argument like you had with neuro, so never mind.

Nicole, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ethan, there's a fine difference between telling people what they should post and telling people how they should respond to something that's already been posted. A very, very, very, very fine difference.

I think the thing that's been pissing me off about this whole thing is that I apologized for my comment when I wrote it, and then the entire thread was derailed into a "controversial" censorship discussion before I could derail it into a less controversial discussion about the Sex Pistols.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

how dare i say that i think a post is inappropiate! thank god plenty of other people were there to tell me that my post was inappropiate. and if i actually mention how stupid that logic is, just compare me to to some asshole flamer, it's all the same.

ethan, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It's all down to what your hot-button issues are, really. That was the point I was trying to hint at.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

if i actually mention how stupid that logic is, just compare me to to some asshole flamer, it's all the same

I wasn't comparing you to neuro, I was just saying I didn't want to argue this point with you anymore because when you disagreed with him you wouldn't let it go.

I was hoping the same wouldn't happen with this thread, but oh well...

Nicole, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'll just sit self-righteously at the back knowing I didn't say anything related to the (admittedly stoopid) question, just about the Sex Pistols.

DG, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I envy you.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

WHy isn't anyone attacking me? I feel left out. :(

Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Mike, you suck.

Like the pinefox, I have no idea what this thread means on any level.

Steven James, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

four years pass...
bump

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 14 November 2005 14:49 (eighteen years ago) link

this is kind of the best pistols song

ZR (teenagequiet), Monday, 14 November 2005 14:58 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

yeah, you people were all as bad as jagger back then.

sanskrit, Saturday, 18 August 2007 14:07 (sixteen years ago) link

hi sanskrit! :D

mark s, Saturday, 18 August 2007 16:39 (sixteen years ago) link

reading early ethan posts is like looking at a pollock still life of a vase with flowers

J0hn D., Saturday, 18 August 2007 21:23 (sixteen years ago) link

her name was pauline and lived in a twee

mark s, Saturday, 18 August 2007 21:25 (sixteen years ago) link


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