S&D: "Loft Jazz", 70's-80s avant-garde

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Like many others, I have been caught up in the resurgence of interest in free jazz. But everyone seems to be concentrating on the early pioneers (Ornette/Dolphy), the mid-late 60's ESP/BYG stuff, the AACM/Chicago school and the modern retro-free scene. As I see it, there seems to be this huge gap in free-jazz history from about maybe 1973 to 1989 or something. I'd asume this is because many of the records have gone are out-of-print. Maybe I'm just ignorant and uninformed. Is this stuff worth hunting down? I've heard people like Julius Hemphill, Oliver Lake, David Murray, and Henry Threagill/Air mentioned in relation to the "loft" scene. Is the early WSQ stuff good? Are Sam Rivers' records from this period good? I loved his Blue Notes. When are they gonna reissue all of his Impulse albums? Why can't I find any Bill Dixon albums? Wasn't he supposed to be a major figure on the scene? Was there any crossover from the "loft" scene and the "downtown" scene or were they scene as seperate things. I'm sceptical of M-Base but I understand them to be a part of this whole thing. What about Prime Time/Shannon Jackson free-fusion stuff? They sound promising but it could very well be absolutely terrifying and unpleasant. Like Laswell or something. I'm more interested in the free stuff than the fusion/eclectic stuff, though.

I'm talking specifically about American stuff, too. I think that euro/japan/"foreign people"-free are big enough areas to warrant their own threads. So, "loft" jazz: the people have a right to know! Umm...over to you...

― James Annett (jlannett), Monday, 30 December 2002 21:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Recommended: the Wildflowers compilations.

I've heard people like Julius Hemphill, Oliver Lake, David Murray, and Henry Threagill/Air mentioned in relation to the "loft" scene.

I dig Hemphill and Lake a lot, they really kinda pre-date loft as they were in the Black Artists Group in St. Louis (kinda like a downriver version of the AACM), but probably got more known in the period you mention. For Hemphill, definitely search out Dogon A.D.

Are Sam Rivers' records from this period good? I loved his Blue Notes. When are they gonna reissue all of his Impulse albums?

What I've heard I've liked.

Why can't I find any Bill Dixon albums? Wasn't he supposed to be a major figure on the scene?

He pre-dates loft, too. You can find his stuff occasionally at Dusty Groove.

Was there any crossover from the "loft" scene and the "downtown" scene or were they scene as seperate things.

I'm guessing you mean "downtown" as Zorn et. al. If so, yes there was some crossover (see: Frank Lowe Orchestra, Lowe and Behold; Butch Morris, Current Trends in Racism...; etc.).

― hstencil, Monday, 30 December 2002 21:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd like to know which ones are terrifying and unpleasant.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 30 December 2002 21:59 (twenty-three years ago)

terrifying and unpleasant:

― hstencil, Monday, 30 December 2002 22:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Does this fit in?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005K2UR.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Because it's a beautiful album (from 1973 I believe), a bit more fusion-y than perhaps is appropriate on this thread, though.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 30 December 2002 22:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd like to hear that one, fo' sure.

― hstencil, Monday, 30 December 2002 22:11 (twenty-three years ago)

They had it at Dusty Groove (is it just me or is every thread merging together today?) as of last month

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 30 December 2002 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

original poster seems very informed, there isn't much info around, & available materials do have a off-putting 80s aesthetic about 'em... lotta those guys are getting their due now... William Parker (who owns new york) had a loft scene going, with such godhead talents as Daniel Carter & Roy Campbell... I think something was rereleased recently. Sam Rivers ran RivBea Studios, which kept the fire burning back inna dark ages. Milton Graves disappeared for a while, I think, but he crossed over to the 90s downtown thang as well.
I hear the new WP big band (can't recall full name but "Organic" is in there) produces serious altered states. & I was spontaneously cured of a cold at an Other Dimensions in Music gig one time. whoa.

― autovac, Monday, 30 December 2002 23:38 (twenty-three years ago)

do you mean the little huey creative music orchestra, or does he have a new group?

― Josh (Josh), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 00:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Milton Graves

Meaning Milford, I'm sure.

The "Organic" thing you're thinking of is the Organic Trio, William Parker, Cooper-Moore and Daniel Carter. Obv. not a big band.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 31 December 2002 00:31 (twenty-three years ago)

no, there's a new one

― autovac, Tuesday, 31 December 2002 02:27 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll check out the Wildfowers set, for sure. I didn't know Daniel Carter & Roy Campbell were around in those days. I had always assumed they were much younger somehow. I guess Lawrence of Newark doesn't really fit in with the thread but it is a terrific album. I was thrilled when they reissued it.

― James Annett (jlannett), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 14:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, there's a nice CD reissue of William Parker's first album as a leader, Through Acceptance of the Mystery Peace, that's worth checking out.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 31 December 2002 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

pharoah sanders.uh hum

― georgiaboy (georgiaboy), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 02:45 (twenty-three years ago)

sam rivers from the '70s right through are usually interesting, eg:
his double lp 3 piece featuring tuba instead of bass from a '70s gig, rivers plays flute, piano and sax in this odd trio but it's still great fun, or
his "contrasts" album on ecm with bass + george lewis trombone -- i guess an ecm album shouldn't be too hard to find, even a great one like that

"air" trio lps (on black saint) are great concise statements from when it was hard for "loft" artists to get a record deal in their own country, although again most haven't been re-issued, and although there is some "revolutionary ensemble" on esp, and albums on india navigation and a&m too, they each have uniquely rev. ens. aethetics

the world sax quartet as idea were first (3/4) on braxton's 1974 NY album on arista i think, and i dunno whether wsq are the greatest place to jump in, especially with early david murray and julius hemphill records with various sized ensembles being pretty funky (from when murray was still coming from albert ayler direction)

― george gosset (gegoss), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 06:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Arthur Blythe Metamorphosis and The Grip

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 07:15 (twenty-three years ago)

fifteen years pass...

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/27/661414691/sonny-fortune-stalwart-saxophonist-of-new-york-dies-at-79

― j., Sunday, 28 October 2018 06:50 (seven years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.