"Unearned emotion"

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A tangent from the irony thread - what does this critical saw mean?

Sterling sez:

"(and who sez if you've earned emotion or not -- is there some emotion management and expenditures department you have to report into and punch grief timecards for or what?)"

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

this is mostly a boys-who-can't-love vs girls-who-love-too-much deal, isn't it?

but if you switch it away from sorrow to larfter, i think a crit of "unearned hilarity" will read (of course i find everything funn,y but then i'm a full-on girl-who-loves-too-much)

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Possibly an overused expression but certainly such a thing does exist: "unearned emotion" is where the play opens with Romeo's death.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

but then you get un-earned non-emotion

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

But nabisco I can see how that would work within the formal dramatic structure of a play but how does it work in a POP SONG! All I can think of is someone like the Flaming Lips and their big weepy productions - wd that count?

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd certainly say it counted, but yes, it does get a lot hairier in a pop song: basically my point is that any given listener has some internal switching-point that will incline them to either run with or reject any particular big emotional outpouring. Saying "unearned emotion" in some objective fashion might not be the best answer; I suppose what the term is saying is that, subjectively, a given song or scene or what-have-you is failing to do anything to justify itself, to offer the listener some reason to switch to "be-affected" mode as opposed to "irked and uninvolved" mode.

I think people use this term with music because -- as with, let's say, poetry -- it seems as if a lot of artists think the point is to just emote, emote, emote, as if there's no question of whether the listener will be drawn in or involved in that emoting. Artists who do this tend to really take in those people who are already disposed toward their particular sort of emoting, but to really put off everyone else -- people who may well have enjoyed that drama if only it'd been explained to them why they should care. Hence the stage analogy: we can all appreciate melodrama, but on some level we have to be shown something in the characters (over an hour or over three minutes) that leads us to care.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry, that first sentence is to say something like "I'd say it counted cause I don't really like the Flaming Lips, but agreed that it's a lot more subjective and hairy when talking about pop music."

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:59 (twenty-three years ago)

In the ear of the listener, but how about "Honey" by Bobby Goldsboro?

ArfArf, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

my fave reference to unearned emotion is in Accidental Evolution of R'N'R. Somebody said that Madonna gets to sing dance songs because "Live To Tell" implies abuse and he rightly is shocked that one has to claim they've been assaulted in order for some people to be comfortable with their dance songs.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean "emotion with out context" is a fine thing to say I think but emotion can be a signifier like any other and I think it's absurd that there has to be a proper "order" of signifiers. and by emotion I mean over-the-top singing I guess or maybe lyrical declarations of emotion because I can't think what else it means.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I dunno, Sterling: if a pop song just opened up a window on three minutes of flat-out emoting I don't think I'd necessarily enjoy that -- not unless there were details scattered into that three minutes that somehow involved me in the emotion, details that made me relate to characters, relate to situations, appreciate the narrator's insight into something, or anyway find something recognizable and compelling within the song. Surely that's not so odd, is it? Making judgments along those lines could just as likely be called the First Thing about listening to pop music: there are the dramas and personas we've somehow been brought into caring about, and there are those we haven't. (The ones we don't care about seem so annoying because they're standing there emoting passionately and impolitely in the face of our own massive indifference.)

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:59 (twenty-three years ago)

There's a great line in Sophie's Choice where the narrator and Sophie are at a party with [1] a bunch of hip, depressive urbanites who spend most of the evening talking about their neuroses and emotional traumas. This annoys Sophie (a concentration camp survivor) tremendously, and after the party, she angrily sputters: "All these people with their, their...their unearned unhappinesses!"

(Make of that what you will.)

[1] (as I recall -- it's been 8 years since I read it)

Phil (phil), Thursday, 23 January 2003 04:16 (twenty-three years ago)

nabisco: only if you think the only purpose of expressing emotion is for the listener to share in that emotion, no?

so does anyone have examples of songs which have this quality?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 23 January 2003 06:06 (twenty-three years ago)

No Sterling it needn't have anything to do with "purpose" or "intent" -- people can express emotion for any reason they want to, but I as a listener will not be moved, impressed, or even entertained unless they've given me some reason to care. I don't doubt that every guy with a deep acoustic guitar ballad has some valid emotion he's drawing on, but surely part of the work of art is figuring out how to communicate that emotion to others in a way that engages them.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

cf "teenage dirtbag" eg

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 23 January 2003 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Is it not when a piece of art goes down some emotional highway expecting you to be right there in the passenger seat with it when in reality you're back at the intersection thinking what the fuck are they doing and how on earth do they expect me to take part or empathise or join them.


ie a fancy way of saying you don't like something.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 23 January 2003 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Obviously there is the perfectly-valid tactic of just emotion, flat-out, and letting people relate or not-relate as they may: but even in that case the people who do relate are getting into it because of something, however natural or unplanned, that's engaging them in what you've done. Are you saying this should be the model, more of a "take it or leave it" instead of "crafted to draw you in?" (I'm trying to decide about which is being done, rhetorically and in practice, in rock, hip-hop, and pop, and it's actually sort of hard to decide.)

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah I think Nabisco has it. As my post there was suggesting I think this unearned emotion thing is when the piece of work tries to hook you in and assumes you empathise or assumes that it has done its job well enough for that to be the case.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 23 January 2003 16:42 (twenty-three years ago)

how is one figuratively "shown something about the characters"? it's not that I don't agree that such devices exist, but everything's a bit vague unless these things can be defined. if the Flaming Lips held their big weepiness for maybe a chord change in the last 3rd of the song would they be crafting to draw one in more effectively? it seems to be a wide topic.

this also asks the question of whether current tides of pop appeal more because 'the people' are more predisposed to their emotive contents (sketchy term alert) or because the songs are crafted to draw a larger crowd in. or perhaps this is just tenuous framework.

Honda (Honda), Thursday, 23 January 2003 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Possibly an overused expression but certainly such a thing does exist: "unearned emotion" is where the play opens with Romeo's death.

Well, it kind of does. Of Rosalind, he says, "She hath forsworn to love, and in that vow / Do I live dead, that live to tell it now". You can see the contrast between the beginning and end of the play as unearned emotion vs. earned emotion.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 23 January 2003 17:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Hah, that's perfect! No one weeps over the Rosalind bit: mostly it's just funny!

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:05 (twenty-three years ago)

emotion that isn't a real-time consequence of struggle, but indicated as an idea instead.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay so we have a definition of it I guess. But I'm asking for examples other than the flaming lips, and also arguing that artists can express emotion for other purposes than seeking to get the audience to "take part or empathise or join them". Like what if the want to use the emotion for comic effect, or to create a certain distancing in the audience and break the frame (aka Brecht and theater) or etc?

Like say look at "people = shit" by slipknot. Are they trying to "earn" their anger or are they just putting it out there? And do they WANT to draw you in or repulse you -- or is it precisely the idea of plain undirected anger as being generally socially repulsive that they want to use to draw their audience in?

I guess I also dislike the phrase because it seems so arrogant -- like who's the abiter who gets to decide when emotion is "earned" or not or does the very fact of its existance justify itself. AKA do we listen for artists like ourselves, or because we are drawn to the foriegnness?

There's something pretty anti-rockist about where I'm going, I think.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 23 January 2003 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

No, Sterling, I think you're just saying that "unearned emotion" operates on the same level as "good" -- i.e. it is clearly a subjective opinion formed by an individual listener, not some recognizable and agreed-upon quality. (Cf Ronan: "a fancy way of saying you don't like something.") But it is a particular way of explaining why you don't like something, and useful as such.

Also it's well and good to point out other uses of emotion in art but when it comes down to it no one says "unearned emotion" about Brecht: it's really only handy to describe things where you're reasonably sure the artist is shooting for a traditional dramatic-involvement effect.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 19:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I will try to think of examples over lunch.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 19:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay correction: I think there are times when someone will say "I think that's unearned emotion" and you might say "but I don't think that was the idea at all, I think the effect is better if you think of it as X, Y, or Z." In this sense both of those formulations communicate well, though.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 19:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I still want someone to find me some tracks, ANY TRACKS, where they personally think that this applies.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 23 January 2003 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I am horrible with coming up with examples but I was listening to a mix over lunch and I decided that the big nostalgic breakdown in "One More Time" fulfills this criteria for me: we don't spend nearly enough time with the groove before we're lead into this big misty-eyed hugging-on-the-dancefloor diversion, which is sort of like stopping in the middle of a first date and saying "I'll always remember how beautiful you looked when I picked you up at your apartment -- I could just tell the cab ride to the restaurant was going to be something special."

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 19:46 (twenty-three years ago)

ahahaha.

but remember the track is supposed to be dropped into a dj set.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 23 January 2003 20:02 (twenty-three years ago)

(also check yr. email)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 23 January 2003 20:03 (twenty-three years ago)

(Got the mail and just dropped one back, Sterling, thanks.)

You're right, the context of a set might shift it a little but I imagine it might still bug me: that breakdown is so "aww shucks give me a hug" that I sort of want, like, one of those three-minute trance snare rolls to lead me into it. Further metaphor for "unearned emotion" in this particular case -- too many shots of the victorious planting of the flag, not enough shots of the climbing of the mountain.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 23 January 2003 20:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Sometimes just the indication, or going-thru-the-motions, is enough to jostle the brane into reliving a vivid emotion. Acting classes are full of stories about people ham-handedly using "emotional recall" - you know, you're supposed to be sad in this scene, so remember the day that your little puppy died - and being unable to control the consequences, breaking down completely, forgetting the next line, etc. It's complicated and potentially impossible to identify an authentic original emotion separately from all its subsequent recreations and echo effects. One could side-step the question of "real" or "not real" emotions by just focusing on whether the audience buys it or not. I'd suggest that by-and-large - not always - the audience will buy audible or visible emotion more if it's the result of the performer engaging with the specific subject matter their song supposedly addresses, and not, say, their lost puppy as a stand-in, or something they say somebody else do on TV or something. Of course their strategies for coping with and expressing these emotions will come from their whole range of lived experience, but the "prick", the little pinch that makes you suck in your breath, works better audience-buying-wise when it's connected with what you're doing in the moment, the words that you're singing, the type of interplay you've got that night with your partners. A DJ dropping "One More Time" would need that track to feel INEVITABLE at that moment in the set.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 23 January 2003 20:45 (twenty-three years ago)

But just putting your body in a certain position, or trying to reach a certain note combined with singing a specific word, can be like a physical shorthand to the emotion you always associated with a particular song, and it can come out feeling extremely earned, and extremely genuine. So I don't know!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 23 January 2003 20:50 (twenty-three years ago)


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