The Ramones as Sacred Cow

That, and they told off Mr. Burns.

For me anyway - the "offensive" thing here is that the Ramones are becoming a staple - people think that they have fun songs and don't get the whole attitude towards rock & roll... which is fine (so backoff Tom!) .. it's just annoying to old punks.

Mr. Noodles: "A vision."

what throws me off is the slits' name here. I think we might have them too (think women in rock, so the thread would be quite diff, say)but they didn't have as much commercial sucess or the notoriety.

Bidini describes his relationship to the band through Joey's visits to Toronto.

Meanwhile I've tried several times to post my honest but unkind opinion to the "I just discovered Stereolab - what now?" thread, and erased what I wrote each time, less out of fear of offending nice Mary's ghost than committing a faux pas here. (But the answer, of course, is "recover it")

I feel more indignant about the Bee Gees being refered to merely as "a seventies disco band" in Maurice Gibbs AP obituary. The nerve!

I could be projecting here, since the main reason I like the Ramones a lot has almost nothing to do with them being "punk legends" (yawn) and everything to do with their girlgroup style. The recent deaths do factor into this as well: once someone dies all sorts of not-entirely-thought-out feelings you had toward that person suddenly twist themselves inside out.

Also, I for one am very upset when I see the Slits maligned.

Shouldn't that read: "It made me like the CLASH slightly less than before."? Or are you simply a Clash-hater?

it's like, the things you thought were hilariously original are just copiable schtick, and copiable-ness is — in the context of the connection — is the kind of sin you took the originals to be damning not advocating...

(i think the argt here wd go as follows: if 60s girlgroups are a model for the ramones — which is a good point given the queer dimension of the ramones aesthetic — then this makes me like 60s girlgroups AND the ramones more: but given that this interesting/important/entertaining dimension is one the clash simply completely overlooked, then it makes we wonder a bit about how well the ramones delivered-transformed this dimension)

(if i wanted to assent to the argt, i'd want to be able to justify it at a musical level as well as a sleeve-photo and promo-ambience level)

Ok, listen, I have to say this, this is what's been bugging me as a varying-degrees fan of all three bands: NONE OF THESE BANDS ARE OBSCURE. I mean, that might seem like a ridiculous point because it's obvious, but who on earth doesn't know songs by the Ramones, the Clash, and the Sex Pistols? I don't understand why Shania Twain wearing a Ramones t-shirt is necessarily some kind of stylistic coup. I mean obviously everything about Shania is stylised, but it's hardly inconceivable that she knows and likes the Ramones, because EVERYONE ON EARTH knows the Ramones.

That is all.

That is all, goodnight. Ally, it's 6 am, you crazy chick!

Hmmm. The overwhelming majority of the people I *know* do not (and this is not just on my own backwater island, either- I have friends all over Europe, and some in the US, who've never heard of The Ramones. The Sex Pistols, yes, by name at least, but never The Clash or The Ramones.) Izzit a Generation Gap thingie?

"She was wearing a Ramones T-Shirt"

"Oh right"

"Oh, you know the Ramones?"

"They're like the Supremes, aren't they?"

don't know abt the slits tho'.

ally is otm obv

There is no such thing. This is honestly a statement that disgusts me. I can't even respond to this - it's like basically saying if you weren't an original punk, you can't listen to punk music. Once again = oi! pretty pop girl cannot like our music! oi!

And I am completely befuddled by the idea that the majority of people anyone knows wouldn't know the Ramones. Are people in large cities just that much more musically literate? I have a hard time believing that...I mean, they're on MTV ferchrissakes.

Mark's brilliant point abt 'copiable schtick' is exactly what I wanted to say in my post above, but couldn't quite put into words...

Er...well, no. The Clash (Jones & Simonon & Keith "PiL" Levene) stole Strummer from the wholly pub rock 101'rs. Though, having seen the Ramones and `Pistols, Strummer knew the 101'rs were old hat overnight.

Ehrm, never seen them on MTV Europe. Never even seen them on VH-1 Europe, for that matter. The majority of people I hang out with certainly aren't musically literate, tho, and also they're pretty young, so that might factor in. As I said, the only Punk band that's well known amongst my circle of acquaintances (unless you factor in the Blink-182/Green Day stuff) would be The Sex Pistols.

If CUT THE CRAP is ACTUALLY "punk" to you, I'm.....well, I'm virtually speechless.

obviously he shd have booted simenon out as well, really

"Uh...what kind of music do you people usually have here?"

"Oh, we play both kinds! We play country AND western!"

"Jake, are you sure this is the place?"

James Blount: what is ira robbins ass and can we eat it?
Deeeelicious roasted, with red potatoes and a side of dijon mustard.

This is too surreal and complex a concept for me to comment on this morning, suffice to say I'm neither anyone's clone nor any living person's grandson.

Anyway, back to the thread subject

Funny, but someone should invite him to the Shania Thread for a reality check.

Thanks, Geeta, by the way.

News Flash! "Israelis roll in broken glass while Palestinians claim Northern Ireland as their new homeland in the name of Allah. Lewd film at 11."

(James' dig about The Cramps made me laugh out loud, BTW, largely because I wanted to make it.)

If she taught me anything, it was that ppl of lots of different generations -- including lots of 80-yr-olds -- read articles in papers and mags too, and many can feel lost by the 'cultural touchstones' that writers often namedrop in articles and assume knowledge of

No, no, I'm not taking this the wrong way, which is why I threw out the idea that maybe it is the Big City coming into play. However, when I lived in suburban Arizona, I saw lots of people in Ramones t-shirts, so I still don't think they are that particularly obscure.

Regardless, I want Shania's super bowl outfit.

The Ramones *WERE* a handful of magic beans, you fool!

Also "Blitzkrieg Bop" gets played plenty at sports events, so not only does every wanna-be punk (whose numbers grow with every year) at least know to name-check the ramones, but they're just a few steps behind Gary Glitter in the sports anthem world thanks to Hey! Ho! Let's Go!

Also, Shania is married to Mutt Lange, who produced Def frikkin' Leppard, a band who's all about sport chants. So maybe she heard about the Ramones through him. The point isn't whether every Shania fan has heard of the Ramones, but whether its feasible she enjoys them. And I definitely think Mrs. Mutt Lange could be a Ramones fan. At least for "Hey! Ho! Let's Go!"

Hah, yeah, as does Fugazi's 'Waiting Room', which gets played at every Redskins game played at home. (Fugazi doesn't see a cent for this btw, which sucks, but I bet the Ramones do get compensated for 'Blitzkrieg Bop' at games, which is cool, as does Gary Glitter and those dudes who did 'Who Let the Dogs Out') Does that mean that the all the sports fans in the stands who hear 'Waiting Room' know it's Fugazi? Does it matter? Do they care? Should they care? 'Waiting Room' means that the Redskins' defense is on the field. I didn't realize until after years of hearing that 'na na na na na na hey' song at sporting events that it was 'Rock n Roll Part 2', I mean, does anyone actually give a shit anymore about Gary Glitter? (don't answer that question)

!!!

New York Doll(s) t-shirts are a similar phenomenon for girls. If you take the 's' off the end I bet no royalty is owed.

The Germs (GI) is the cool t-shirt I've never seen on anybody who doesn't look they might be somewhat into punk music.