Zwan - Mary Star of the Sea...C/D?

It's also rather annoying that half the songs start out with the exact same guitar chord. The lyrics are pretty simple and straightforward, something that I'm not a big fan of. Billy's voice has finally settled down, but it's migrated a bit too far from the Siamese Dream dreaminess for my tastes.

"Jesus I" is pretty sw33t though.

I will be listening to it shortly and shall report.

Oh wait, who's that tall guy coming up to the mic...no! no! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Album = me like. A mix of immediate winners, growers and stuff I was familiar with from the live shows. Very bright sound all around -- the major angst may actually be screamed out of his system now (maybe). I shall just have to listen to it again. :-)

I'm thinking Classic.

i got the zwan yesterday. there's a few great songs and more than a few "eh" songs. and belive me, i've been waiting for this for a while. i was/am a diehard SP fan. but, even i have to draw some lines.
the crunchier the better and sometimes the softness works. but, on the zwan, it seems to be a little flat on some of the tunes.
Mary is the huge standout!! that's what i wanted!!! huge guitars, mega drums. yeah, that's what it sounds like when zwan hits it right.
and that end song, come with me, is pretty fuckin catchy. but, it's early and i only listened once.

Second listen in and it's indeed worthy -- right now I think the potential downside is there's not as much variety as I'd like. Nothing wrong with big and uplifting most of the time, though! Right now faves include "Settle Down," "Of a Broken Heart," "Heartsong"...

I've discovered that Smashing Pumpkins songs sound better if you imagine Billy's singing them to Ned. Especially "Adore." Like how Kelly Osbourne's closing ballad sounds better if you imagine its about Ozzy.

Thank fuck, no.

I've discovered that Smashing Pumpkins songs sound better if you imagine Billy's singing them to Ned.

Imagining Limp Bizkit songs sung to Anthony is even better!

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/z/zwan/mary-star-of-the-sea.shtml

I bought this record when it came out and I still don't like it. But then I haven't liked any Corgan since SD. I mainly got it as a fan of Chavez, Slint and that cute bassist from APC who always talks about being a compulsive masturbator in her interviews. Is this worth trying to get into? (The CD, not compulsive masturbation)

This is a real Mant post!

http://tinofyouth.250x.com/matinee/Image1397.jpg

I wonder if she does this in conversation? Like you'll be hanging out with her and she's sitting there with her hand down her pants like Al Bundy. That'd be kinda hot actually. We're getting into C-Man territory here, but seriously.

It's hard to play bass with one hand. I mean you can only really play four notes, unless you get a six string.

Don't forget FRET TAPPING!

i still stand by Mary, but for the most part, it's all popped out and overdone and not nearly the way it shoulda (ie- bigger low end).

i heard a BBC session they did and it was way better than what made the album. did anyone even try to tell billy no?

So, they are kinda the opposite of Smashing Pumpkins? Cause I'd rather listen to an SP album than see them live again, by a long shot.

"Endless Summer" is based on a Gravity Demos riff btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwuRneb0HQ

idk how much of a minority i am in this but "yeah!" is one of my favorite billy compositions ever

bought the Zwan record this year, I had not listened to it in years, but I still think it's good. And in spite of all the ambitions (and guitarist) quite lucid. :-)
(that new Corgan solo on the other hand...)

(ned otm 100 years ago)

Too kind. What I remember when I saw them the one time -- this would have been their second live show ever, in OC, after the one with the clip linked above -- was how absolutely carefree and genial BC was on stage. LOTS of looks, exchanges and laughter with Jimmy Chamberlain in particular. Honestly the only time I ever saw him that way on stage for anything, the closest to it being the Sky Saxon tribute in LA, which is the last time I've seen him anywhere.

There were something like 4 CDs worth of songs demoed/played live for the entire project. A full box along the lines of the other SP sets would be a dream but I can't imagine it happening at all.

Think it's best left alone tbh. I love MSOTS, but it's uneven. But three more cd's of discarded material? I dunno man. Maybe a dream for completists, but knowing how much stuff Corgan - rightfully so! - discarded, it's probably for the best.

There’s an amazing single album at least in that vault, though. I didnt even mention any of the Djali Zwan songs like “Friends as Lovers” (which he’s been playing recently on his solo tour). He does want to release it, just a question of when.

did he ever apologize for publicly implying his Zwan bandmates didn't have the chops for his liking

I just remember him saying they “ate too much lobster” on the major label dole lol. Also was complicated bc everyone in the band slept with Paz or tried to at some point (allegedly)...

ick

if you look at wiki he states that he detests pajo and paz and will never ever go near them again. which is weird because I'm pretty positive they are better human beings than he is.

judging by his recent interviews I'm willing to bet he'd have nicer things to say if he was asked about them now, but I don't think anyone will ever think to ask about the Zwan era tbh

I would've thought the same thing, but Zwan has come up in almost every interview he's done for the solo record, often w/r/t unreleased material. and yeah, he was still shit-talking James Iha less than 3 years ago, and now they're on good terms and getting ready for a full Pumpkins reunion next year. By the way, that reunion is in motion, all members are on good terms now, and there are festival offers on the table. only thing that could stop that is (not enough) money.

I've just started listening to Mary, Star of the Sea for the first time in at least 13 years.

There's at least one cut on the DVD with the CD -- just him in studio, full solo track -- that's really great.

which cut is that?

My Life + Times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7axMFSF7ZbU

Maybe a dream for completists, but knowing how much stuff Corgan - rightfully so! - discarded, it's probably for the best.

that's the problem post-Pumpkins though, Billy has consistently had terrible judgment when it comes to what songs go on the album and which become B-sides or just remain unreleased. Mary Star of the Sea is by far the most egregious example of this.

Didn't he basically accuse the rest of the band (aside from Jimmy) of being promiscuous drug fiends who wanted to fuck with his personal life and his career?

yes

Oh yeah, and they were indie people who lacked drive and ambition - I think that was another one.

After revisiting the whole album, I'd say the first half of this album is really strong - the second half not so much but there's still good stuff there. Kind of in agreement with Brad about 'Heartsong' - it would have worked better as a minute-long interlude. 'Baby Let's Rock' is the only outright awful song, struggled to sit through that one.

I've never delved into any of the live stuff or unreleased songs but this has made me want to.

"By the way, that reunion is in motion, all members are on good terms now," is D'Arcy off the drugs now?

makes me wonder what kind of "drive" Billy would have had if he'd never gotten that major-label lucre

"By the way, that reunion is in motion, all members are on good terms now," is D'Arcy off the drugs now?

Let's see how long it lasts before the inevitable disintegration and Corgan starts crying in the press about it.

yeah I give it a 20% chance of succeeding, if they even get the right offers

I still really like this record. I still think they were great live. From what I've heard, the behind-the-scenes stuff with this band was pretty grimy and unpleasant.

Until now, I hadn't read this thread beyond my first contribution back in the day. The gross AaronHz detour about Paz's masturbation is particularly weird as, when I interviewed the group for a Kerrang! cover feature - all five of them together, for 20 minutes, with a camera crew filming me and Billy generally being a dick - apropos of literally nothing, she took my right hand at one point and said, "Do you know why this hand is the best hand to masturbate with?" and then answered, "Because it's my hand."

maybe Billy was mad at Sweeney and Pajo cuz they had been in great bands before, something he'd never experienced

lol holy shit at stevie's quote

hahahaha Matt

There is a god pic.twitter.com/DcBqSpUXKe

— Nicky Smith (@nickyotissmith) August 16, 2018

Also was complicated bc everyone in the band slept with Paz or tried to at some point (allegedly)...

Didn't he basically accuse the rest of the band (aside from Jimmy) of being promiscuous drug fiends who wanted to fuck with his personal life and his career?

Hahahahahaha!

hi zwan thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd712IJ_u-k

absolutely ridiculous to me that music like this exists and billy corgan didn't put it on the one fuckin zwan album

albeit this is prob a post-msots arrangement of "a new poetry" given the embryonic droney version on the dvd but whatever!!!!!

yuck

never really dug into all the unreleased zwan stuff but that rules

yesterday, they were going somewhere

only Corgan to choose the better Zwan songs to not figure out on the album. they could have been such a great band.

That song is nice, but it sounds very similar to the songs that are actually on the album (and not necessarily better than them)?

Also, it's creepy how the crowd cheers every time he sings, "Do you believe in me?"

https://archive.org/details/zwan2003-01-22-Quinto.shnf/zwan2003-01-22d1t03-quinto.shn

was listening to this show tonight and it just totally fucking rocks. the album stuff is done with such energy and the non-album stuff is all essential zwan material

zwan live > og pumpkins live

I only got to catch the OG pumpkins once but...I don't have a hard time believing that.

I wuz fortunate enough to see each. They were both pretty great!

I was at the Brixton 93 Pumpkins show when Billy dressed up as a clown to lamely "zing" Melody Maker critic Everett True, and they were terrible.

I was at the Metro show in 2003 when Zwan covered Silver Machine and they were utterly fantastic.

[Actually I can't find a Metro show when they played Silver MAchine, but I think it was the last of their Metro shows]

I was at the Metro show when Dead Meadow opened for Zwan, but I don’t think they played “Silver Machine” that night. I was just listening to their 4/12/02 Double Door show, this could have been a great band. Sweeney and Pajo brought a lot to the table, imagine if they had more room to contribute writing new songs.

they're champs for putting up with Corgan as long as they did

I interviewed them the next day and Corgan was a dick, strong hostage situation vibes