The Year The Music Dies ....... the music industry is falling apart, and nobody cares

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There has been a lot of talk about how the music industry is really struggling, due to file-sharing, market fragmentation, lack of strong new talent etc.

Here's an excerpt from an interesting article at:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/dirge.html

"The Year The Music Dies

Record labels are under attack from all sides - file sharers and performers, even equipment manufacturers and good old-fashioned customers - and it's killing them. A moment of silence, please.

By Charles C. Mann

Not long before his sudden death from a heart attack, I saw Timothy White at a party in Boston, standing by the bar in his usual bow tie and white bucks. When he waved me over, I was delighted: Timothy was not only the editor of Billboard but a respected music critic and biographer. Even the executives he often took to task conceded, with a wince, that he understood the secretive, confusing business better than almost anyone. "How much you want to bet that the entire music industry collapses?" he asked me. "And I mean soon - like five, ten years. Kaboom!"

Truth is, it may happen even sooner. This year could determine whether the music business as we know it survives.

In the first six months of 2002, CD sales fell 11 percent - on top of a 3 percent decline the year before. Sales of blank CDs jumped 40 percent last year, while the users of Kazaa, the biggest online file-trading service, tripled in number. Meanwhile, the labels' new legitimate online music services attracted fewer paying customers than the McDonald's in Times Square."

C J (C J), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 22:50 (twenty-three years ago)

I hope the music industry dies and something that actually takes advantage of the current state of the world rises to take its place.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 22:52 (twenty-three years ago)

burn baby burn

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 22:53 (twenty-three years ago)

See yer.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:07 (twenty-three years ago)

exactly. i can't imagine anyone shedding a tear. the music industry dying = the music dying is a completely ridiculous idea.

i figure as long as pressing plants and the means for independent labels to put our CD's stays in tact, it won't be so bad. and even so, rampant downloading would keep music distribution of a sort afloat, although i hope it doesn't come to that.

there's too much money in the damn industry anyway, and it's going to the wrong people. it's not like movies, where lack of capital has a direct impact on the quality of the product; it doesn't actually take much money to record a song and make it sound good ('professional'). and most working musicians are barely getting by as it is, so i can't imagine that getting any worse. if their income starts to depend more on performing, so be it. but i doubt the whole sales/royalty system will fall apart, it just has to adapt.

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:09 (twenty-three years ago)

organize baby organize

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I never really understood why, say, a Michael Jackson album should cost $5 million to produce. But then again, hiring three big name producers and six months of studio time...

Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I wonder if any record stores have gone out of business this year.

Andy K (Andy K), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Axe "this", replace with "in the past"

Andy K (Andy K), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:19 (twenty-three years ago)

BTW in a recent case study I did I saw a cost breakdown of your average major label release that was pretty revealing:

Producing/mixing/mastering: $1
Manufacturing of the CD + booklets: $1
Marketing, promotion and discounts to retailers: $3
Distribution & company overhead: $3
Songwriter royalties: $1
Performer royalties: $1
Net profit for record company: $1
= wholesale price of $11
avg gross margin for retailer: $6
avg selling price ex VAT: $17

When sales decline ten percent, that means fixed costs (company overhead, most distribution, recording and marketing/promotion) will quite quickly eat up nearly ALL (in this case, about $0,70) of the profit margin for the label, whereas the retailers have a bit more cushioning (unless wholesale prices rise, and those will be quickly reflected in retail prices). The only way towards survival for the label is cutting overhead, cutting recording costs or selling directly to consumers, because spending less on promotion will make things even worse...

Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Basically, to survive in a world where CD's sell less, the big labels will have to go through quite a bit of hard cost cutting...

Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

CJ, did you see today's Doonesbury or was your starting this thread a magnificent coincidence?

j.lu (j.lu), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:36 (twenty-three years ago)

"I wonder if any record stores have gone out of business this year."

I bunch of them just got together to start selling downloads.

Ben Williams, Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:49 (twenty-three years ago)

But if they go out of business, where can I go to get sneered at?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:57 (twenty-three years ago)

upmarket clubs

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:59 (twenty-three years ago)

the bad thing about the major labels going under is less cheap ex-promo CDs from second hand record stores for me!

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 23:59 (twenty-three years ago)

but the award ceremonies! people! the award ceremonies! the gluttony! the avarice!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 30 January 2003 00:22 (twenty-three years ago)

And?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 January 2003 00:24 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe publicists are the new record companies--they'll get the word out to writers, who get it out to fans, etc. (or more to the point one of the new record companies)

M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 30 January 2003 00:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I say this partly because my job makes me biased, but notice how much it's worked/ing for Cody Chesnutt--you can barely find his records even in hipstah shops but you read about the mufuh EVERYWHERE it seems.

M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 30 January 2003 00:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Much in the vein of Ned, but a little less callous and perhaps more spitefully:

"It's about fucking time."

-Matt, who won't miss it. Well, maybe a bit of the avarice...

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 30 January 2003 00:53 (twenty-three years ago)

it boggles my mind that people actually believe this shit

colin mcelligatt, Thursday, 30 January 2003 00:53 (twenty-three years ago)

word, colin! Martin Luther King said (perhaps in his last ever speech?) that his the slogan of progressives everywhere shouldn't be "burn baby burn" but "organize baby organize" (pretty humble thing for a guy who was great w/fiery rhetoric but not exactly the greatest organizer in the world) I take this to mean that any edifice belonging to a bunch of rich foax simply doesn't burn by itself; if anyone can point out any time in history - ever - when an enormous market has ever dispersed itself from a tiny group of massive capital investors into the hands of the laborers responsible for creating the product (much less the consumers who buy the stuff) without enormous amounts of struggle and organizing by those laborers themselves i'll give you $17.99 American

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 30 January 2003 00:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw one of his videos on MTV. (It was pretty ordinary, in case you were wondering. I only watched it for like twenty seconds.)

Sam Goody's closing an assload of stores in the Twin Cities metro. I'm not sure if they're doing the same nationwide or what. For selling copies of Play in the year 2000 for $19.99, I say good fucking riddance.

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 30 January 2003 01:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Just think how much faster it'll all come down if everyone clams their $20

brg30 (brg30), Thursday, 30 January 2003 01:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm somewhat worried about choice and selection. I hate the record industry vehemently, but I live in record stores, where in the past 15 or so years I have discovered some of the best things I've ever discovered (better than a lot of girlfriends I've had, even). The death of the indie record store (however elitist) and the death of the big chain store (however corporate) will mean the end of rows and rows of CDs (however overpriced). I don't WANT to buy music online, and I don't WANT to have to go to live shows to support the artist in question (what if it's cold outside?). I want to be able to shop, and chat with the employees, and come home with an actual, physical product. Preferably, one that costs about ten dollars. Is that too much to fucking ask?

Kenan Hebert, Thursday, 30 January 2003 01:29 (twenty-three years ago)

There will always be such a thing as used record/CD stores. Trust me.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 January 2003 01:48 (twenty-three years ago)

nate, by sheer coincidence i just downloaded
'it takes tea' off you about an hour ago.
total coincidence, but now i recognise the name.
you're the only person out there in the virtual world who has it

unless there's two of yers.

piscesboy, Thursday, 30 January 2003 03:11 (twenty-three years ago)

God, I hope not. The world would not be ready for such rampant DJ Shadow lookalikeosity.

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 30 January 2003 04:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Cody Chesnutt--you can barely find his records even in hipstah shops but you read about the mufuh EVERYWHERE it seems.

This is the first I've ever heard of him.

Vic Funk, Thursday, 30 January 2003 12:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't WANT to buy music online ... I want to be able to shop, and chat with the employees, and come home with an actual, physical product. Preferably, one that costs about ten dollars. Is that too much to fucking ask?

Maybe. Why don't you want to buy music online? I can understand that one benefit of the shop is being able to chat about music etc.
But you can chat about music online, here for example, and most of ILM are way more interesting than your average record store employee. (Shout to my man Charlie of "Charlie's Orbit", Brighton ... not you of course.)

If you want real product, then what's wrong with buying it online and getting it delivered in about a week? If you want instant gratification, download.

Maybe ten dollars is TOO cheap to provide record shopping environments ...


HOWEVER ... here's what I think may happen.

As the music biz goes down, their ability to sue the pirates will recede. Also, fewer albums will be being released. And many will be "out of print".

Specialist music shops / second hand shops will become download experts. They'll install computers and fat internet links, and fast CD burners and decent printers. And when you go in looking for obscure and rare stuff, they'll be able to offer either originals, second hand CDs, or will go online and find stuff for you and burn you a copy cheaply.

This will be accepted because there's "no other way" to buy the music legally. These CDs burned in the shops will be higher quality than those you can make at home.

Small record labels will do a deal with these shops, allowing the shops to pay a small license for the right to do this. The shops will do it out of a sense of justice and to get a catalogue of "masters" which they can then burn legit copies of.

Hence specialist shops will evolve into custom franchise CD manufacturers. You'll still chat, they'll still show rows of jewel cases filled with interesting covers ... it's just that when you buy the CD, you'll wait while a blank is burned and the cover printed. And it'll cost five dollars.


phil jones (interstar), Thursday, 30 January 2003 13:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Phil -

Make it happen, man.

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 30 January 2003 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I dont see how this will effect indie shops, other then helping them perhaps. Fans of indie music tend to be the ones who spend their money for music. If anything, this is just a boost for indie music in general.

Sam Goody is one of the worst record stores EVER, also.

David Allen, Thursday, 30 January 2003 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Meanwhile, the labels' new legitimate online music services attracted fewer paying customers than the McDonald's in Times Square

That's bcz their business models are crap, I hate it when I see them blame consumers for not buying into these new 'legit' music services when generally they charge too much per download, don't have a good enough selection, don't market these programs aggressively, songs are encoded using annoying formats ('liquid audio' etc.) They shouldn't be blaming the consumer for not responding to crappy, backward business models; like any other business, they should be trying to revise their business models as fast as possible to be as adaptable as possible instead of fading off into irrelevance.

geeta (geeta), Thursday, 30 January 2003 14:38 (twenty-three years ago)

No other type of business would have survived this long on the current business models that the music industry employs, I think.

geeta (geeta), Thursday, 30 January 2003 14:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Independents getting their act together:
have a glimpse into the future, it's already happening in Norway:
musiconline.no

With this brand new service, you can purchase music downloads from more than 90 independent Norwegian record labels.

You will find releases from Norway's leading artists across all musical styles - buy your favorites as single tracks or select the entire album at a discounted price! For musiconline users only; check our list of exclusive repertoire!

DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 30 January 2003 14:41 (twenty-three years ago)

They shouldn't be blaming the consumer for not responding to crappy, backward business models; like any other business, they should be trying to revise their business models as fast as possible to be as adaptable as possible instead of fading off into irrelevance.

Exactly. The problems facing the "music" industry are akin to the problems facing the airline industry. There will always be a want/need, in a sense, for people to travel quickly by air, just the old model of the gigantic carrier with global reach and lousy customer service (i.e. United) is obsolete.

hstencil, Thursday, 30 January 2003 14:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, and coming up with "new" models which are really the old model with a new hat is not going to fix the problem.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 30 January 2003 15:01 (twenty-three years ago)

It'd be WONDERFUL to see some of the majors go under.
ESPECIALLY Sony. Their time is nigh, I think....

russ t, Thursday, 30 January 2003 17:00 (twenty-three years ago)

One thing that occurs to me is why people think that major labels will go under, as such, as most of them are owned by megaconglomerates who probably have too much invested in the brandnames to actually let them fold up. I'd think that both Sony and Warner are pretty safe for the time being, and I can't imagine that either BMG or Universal are in serious trouble at this point either. I can certainly see them changing direction a lot sooner than I can see them folding.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 30 January 2003 17:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan what makes you think the record labels are interesting in fixing the "problem"?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 30 January 2003 17:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Phil has one terrific point, along the same lines as the publishing industry ramping into print-on-demand: I'd be happy with a model wherein artists or labels provided their material digitally to licensed dealers and stores, who then reproduced it on the spot for something like that $5 charge; half of that could support the store overhead, half could go straight back to the label and artist; any given store can have a near-unlimited selection immediately available, stored on a few big drives in back.

This is a fantastic idea, except: it still would rely in part on that material only being available through "licensed dealers." I'd guess that file-sharing would decrease dramatically if anyone could walk into a store, preview anything they wanted, and walk out with it immediately for a few bucks -- but you'd still have to get rid of it entirely for that to be as solid a model as it sounds.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 30 January 2003 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan what makes you think the record labels are interesting in fixing the "problem"?

Nothing.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:03 (twenty-three years ago)

There will always be such a thing as used record/CD stores.

Ned's collection alone could form the basis for about a hundred such stores.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:05 (twenty-three years ago)

other hitch in that plan = very few "small" labels have the personnel/resources to deal directly with the number of dealers this would entail nation-(never mind world)-wide.

once you figure in the various distributors & middlemen required you're back at square one on all costs except packaging and shipping. and then since everything is digital you're REALLY up against file-sharing, without even "b-but the nice package it comes in!!" etc to fall back on as enticement for the remaining albumists

also sean is otm - to imagine that the big corps aren't already working these alternate scenarios through and coming up with dozens of ways to benefit from each of them is totally delusional.

jones (actual), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Phil's idea that nabisco praised was tried by Sony a few years ago (or at least was bandied about), but nothing happened.

To see how actual industry folk are responding to the obvious failures of the industry, check this thread at the Velvet Rope.

As far as store closings go, chain-wise Tower has closed many stores, with more to come. Virgin is losing massive amounts of money and may do the same. The biggest reason? Best Buy.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned's collection alone could form the basis for about a hundred such stores.

Woohoo!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned's collection alone could form the basis for about a hundred such stores.

The President: Ned, the economy is collapsing, thanks to the complete devastation of the recording industry! We need your help!

Ned: Finally, recognition for my immense knowledge of music! What can I do to help, sir?

The President: We need you to sell off one of the wings of your collection. Since you bought every single CD ever produced, there's been a serious music shortage! For the love of God, we need your help in reversing this situation before we have rioting on the streets!

Ned: Never! They're my babies!

The President: You leave us no option but to use force! Prepare to meet your maker!

Ned: Fools! My compound is lined with thousands and thousands of layers of MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice records! You'll never penetrate through something that dense!

The President: General, blast Godspeed at maximum. It will put him to sleep, then we can just walk in the front door and take what we need.

General Hillary Rosen: Sir, yes sir!

Ned: YOU MONSTERS! I KILL YOU NOW!

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:33 (twenty-three years ago)

This happens to me every day, though!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Phil has one terrific point, along the same lines as the publishing industry ramping into print-on-demand: I'd be happy with a model wherein artists or labels provided their material digitally to licensed dealers and stores, who then reproduced it on the spot for something like that $5 charge; half of that could support the store overhead, half could go straight back to the label and artist; any given store can have a near-unlimited selection immediately available, stored on a few big drives in back.

As Yancey said, this has been tried before. Back in 1990, 1991 or so, a small number of Record World outlets could make on-order compilation cassette for customers. A person would browse a catalog (mainly filled with back-catalog Sony stuff IIRC), fill out a form, then continue shopping while the cassette was made. I have an even faint recollection that they tried this with CDs but I never saw this in a store. I'm not entirely sure why this died; I have an even fainter recollection that royalties were a key reason.

If it was introduced today, I don't think it would seriously dent music downloading -- it's just not as speedy or as private -- but if it had a chance to develop into a robust service back in the early '90's, I think it would have at least retarded some of the explosive growth of p2p.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 30 January 2003 19:07 (twenty-three years ago)

For an industry as image and marketing-focused as the recording industry, it is pretty sad that it seems they have completely squandered their brands. When was the last time you ever bought a major label recording based on the record label? Like "Ooo - the new Warner Brothers release is out today - I gotta run down to the store!" Is it any wonder that nobody wants to subscribe to a paid download service carrying content from these companies?

The record industry has squandered all their assets through vertical integration and the payola system. Vertical integration forced people to make choices they wouldn't normally make, with regards to programming and cross-promotional tie-ins. They also laid down and accepted the pay-to-play system that has destroyed radio. This seemed like a "safe" way to do business - it gives a concrete result (airplay) for a certain amount of money. However, now they have themselves in a situation where NOTHING gets played without payment, no matter how much a certain radio programmer enjoys it. They have been squeezed to the point where they can only support giant artists with this system, and even these artists need pay-for-play support.

Ironically, this morass gives the independent labels an advantage, in a strange way. The independents actually have BUILT their brands. People actually DO pay attention when a new releases a new record. People might actually pay a small fee for a monthly sampler CD from . Plus, the independents don't have to shell out the dough for airplay ("promotion"), they can let filesharing and fandom drive sales.

In the last 20 years, the cost of production and distribution for music have come down to unimagined lows. The music industry has spent the last 20 years increasing prices, hunting down "pirates," spending all their money on consolidation and monopolistic schemes. And now they are left with a customer base that is completely disloyal, and a failing business model that can't survive without government-sponsored corporate welfare.

Good riddance.

schwantz, Friday, 31 January 2003 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)

it's a bit naive, schwantz, to think that filesharing won't turn around a bite the independent labels too. filesharing in general gives no one an advantage but those who want something for free and begin to believe that they are entitled to it, when they are not.

jack cole (jackcole), Friday, 31 January 2003 18:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, but with the actual brand-building that independents have done (based on going back to the basics - finding good music), they have much more customer loyalty than the majors, which will lead to less piracy, IMHO.

schwantz, Friday, 31 January 2003 18:34 (twenty-three years ago)


david day (winslow), Friday, 31 January 2003 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm a little worried myself, though I admit I have a hard time getting a grasp on the issues (for want of real technical understanding). I supect that most of my favorite music has been made my professional musicians, rather than people who merely devote some of their free time to it. While their financial lot has often been a struggle, I can't see where this is going to make it any easier for them.

What sort of financial incentive is there going to be for taking care of the back catalog too? Who is going to make this stuff available in re-mastered form without making any real profit on it?

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:24 (twenty-three years ago)

The way I was thinking about it is not as a scheme trialed by the record industry, but as an initiative, siezed by the record shops to help themselves stay alive.

and where exactly, phil. d'you think the shop would get the music? the major chains in the states just fomed an alliance -- Echo -- to license the tracks. no shop could make a go at this wihout licensing the tracks, and the majors would never -- strike that, have never and aren't likely to anytime soon -- agree to a licensing fee that allowed this scheme to be financially viable.

for one thing, if it was allowed to happen, there'd be no competitive difference between the majors and indies regarding distribution. and they're not about to let that happen.

for another, if the majors were to set the price lower, why bother with resellers? and why would the public pay for full albums instead of just the songs they like? and if so, there goes the profit margin.... (one successful single pays for a lot of filler tracks)

bucky wunderlick (bucky), Friday, 31 January 2003 20:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Rockist - in terms of back-catalog management, what better archival tool than Napster has ever been created? Efficient, and deep, P2P-filesharing proves that there are 50+million people out there willing to do this for no profit.

schwantz, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Remastering costs $ though (i know that I don't know how to do it, certainly); also I doubt my HD could even hold one album's worth of pressing-quality audio - that is unless you're saying that mp3 is sufficient quality to document everything for the ages?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 31 January 2003 20:56 (twenty-three years ago)

The era of mp3 remastering:

SAD FAN: "I wish to have this track issued on a run of 50 in Deepest Turkeminstan by a guy named Slyzo."

HAPPY FAN: *records to mp3* "Done."

SAD FAN: "My collection is complete!"

HAPPY FAN: "You ARE sad."

*descends into the 'u r all gay' meme, dies*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:19 (twenty-three years ago)

(Misreading "meme" as "mime": classic or dud?)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:23 (twenty-three years ago)

branding in a world of something for nothing (filesharing)won't necessarily breed loyalty in the sense of plopping down cash for the product but will only attract listeners to get the brand for free.

jack cole (jackcole), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Misreading "meme" as "mime": classic or dud?

Mime descending, the latest fad among the teens.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Jack - I think you are being overly-cynical. There are a million things in this world that you can easily steal, but most people choose not to. I don't want to turn this into another filesharing debate, but there are plenty of good business models out there to exploit, if only the big labels had built their brands, is all I'm saying. I think the best compromise is some kind of universal compulsory license for music/movies, etc.

Tracer - With hard disc space prices dropping, at some point people will just store (and perhaps trade) the high-quality versions. And anyway, why should we trust stewardship of these valuable cultural artifacts to a couple of corporations?

schwantz, Friday, 31 January 2003 21:43 (twenty-three years ago)

The way I was thinking about it is not as a scheme trialed by the record industry, but as an initiative, siezed by the record shops to help themselves stay alive.

and where exactly, phil. d'you think the shop would get the music?

Uh?

The internet?

(And later, licensing from small labels.)

the major chains in the states just fomed an alliance -- Echo -- to license the tracks. no shop could make a go at this wihout licensing the tracks, and the majors would never -- strike that, have never and aren't likely to anytime soon -- agree to a licensing fee that allowed this scheme to be financially viable.

Yeah, part of what I said in the previous post is that this would start to happen as the labels went down ie. ceased to be able to legally persue the shops.

for one thing, if it was allowed to happen, there'd be no competitive difference between the majors and indies regarding distribution. and they're not about to let that happen.

W/out the labels, who'd stop it?

for another, if the majors were to set the price lower, why bother with resellers? and why would the public pay for full albums instead of just the songs they like? and if so, there goes the profit margin.... (one successful single pays for a lot of filler tracks)

I was also suggesting that the shops made these custom compilations.

I'm not saying that these shops would have much of an edge over downloading yourself. I think any edge would consist of ...

- big cache, faster than searching and downloading

- better printer to produce glossier, more professional inlays

- social place to hang out ... you go there 'cos you like the shopping experience. (Remember I introduced this idea as a way of saving this last experience which people claimed to like)

phil jones (interstar), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:59 (twenty-three years ago)

phil if the majors really do start losing money year-over-year they're going to demand every stitch specified in every contract they've ever had drawn up for them and then some - i'd imagine IP lawsuits would INCREASE, not the other way around

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 31 January 2003 22:27 (twenty-three years ago)

What's with all the bandying about of "stealing" and
"theft" ?
Copyright infringement is not theft. Copyright infringement
is copyright infringement. There's a legal and moral
difference.


squirl_police, Friday, 31 January 2003 23:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I just hope the parks and fields and country areas won't get too built up with your wireless antennas and digital jukeboxes and satellites. Other than that, have fun.

felicity (felicity), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Feh. I say LOAD up like it's the harvest now, and then become one of those cranky "music's been crap ever since 200(x)" so you don't have to indulge this newfangled crap. I don't cotton to it.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:25 (twenty-three years ago)

another hitch in all this #2 - the bubble has yet to burst on the corruptability of digital media (cd's haven't been around long enough for en-masse outrage to erupt when wear-and-tear renders them unplayable) but if/when it does hard-drives full of mp3s might be of little comfort.

anyway until phil's scenario includes getting music injected directly into one's brainstem by uberkewl fan-surgeons, it's got its sights set way too low if you ask me

jones (actual), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:39 (twenty-three years ago)

In the last 20 years, the cost of production and distribution for music have come down to unimagined lows.

How often have you looked at the hourly rates of a recording studio lately or at the prices for TV commercials, magazine ads, etc? The trend is up, not down. CD prices have increased about 1% a year since 1985. In real terms, CD's are cheaper than they have ever been - cheaper than LPs have ever been even.

Siegbran (eofor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Siegbran - you don't need a recording studio to make music, and when was the last time you bought a CD based on advertising?

And LPs sound better anyway

*ducks*

schwantz, Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Without any advertising/promotion, 99.99% of all artists will never sell in any noticable quantities, and will not recoup their recording costs. Sad but true, even at the tiny label I used to do some work for (released 2-3 CD's a year), promotion and distribution were by far the most money and time consuming parts of the business. Getting a CD out for much less than 8-10 dollar wholesale is near impossible. And recording on 4 tracks might be cool for your average indie band, but try getting a decent sound out of, say, a 10 member funk band without any professional help - good luck.

Siegbran (eofor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:41 (twenty-three years ago)

You don't even need a recording studio to RECORD music.

matt riedl (veal), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Whilst the record companies may have ballsed it up, I was thinking yesterday whilst playing through some CDs just where have we got with music in the last 10 years? ........ nowhere, nothing of any great note.

Consider this kind as a kind of timeline to today's music....

1900 - 1920's - The birth of jazz, blues, gospel and big band.

1920 - 30's - Big Band, jazz - a new term, swing.

1930 - 40's - More of the same, Sinatra, arguably the first 'pop' star.

1950's - The birth of Rock 'n' Roll and Rhythm & Blues. Jazz, blues and gospel fused together. Elvis shocks America, his music based on country, blues and rock and roll.

1960's - Pop music. It is no coincidence that both the Rolling Stones and the Beatles both cite James Brown as a major influence. The Motown era. The development of funk from the roots of blues, reggae and ska. The first ever live album is recorded. Bands of all genres become household names. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Elvis, James Brown, Diana Ross, Marvin Gaye ............ the list is endless. A golden era for music.

1970's - Hmm, difficult. Glam rock, Prog Rock, Disco (developed from funk) - all have their roots still in R&B and R&R. A new form of R&R, Heavy Metal. Punk takes pop music back to it roots, simple chords, simple lyrics and shock value.

1980's - New technology leads to new forms of pop music, Michael Jackson, Madonna, New Order, Eurythmics take pop further. Bands like U2, Clash, Springsteen still developing the R&R and punk ethos further. Rap, a 'new' form is only funk taken further. The first appearence of sampling. End of the 1980's, the emergence of 'Britpop' from the Manchester music scene, a derivative of 1960's Merseybeat. The concept of manufactured bands (started by the Monkees) is taken further.

1990's - ? Certainly Britpop flourished in the UK. Grunge in the States, a mix of R&R and Heavy Metal and spawn hundreds of imitators. But what after that ? A number of US bands still persue the development of music and maybe only a handful of UK bands, Blur and Oasis especially. Where's the progression ? There was a growth in music exploiting technology but in creative terms, new music as an output has fallen. It seem the development of music despite all the new media available to us is pushed further underground.

2000's - search me. Music is just not progressing. There is some great non-mainstream music but you seldom get to hear it on radio.

Who's to blame ?

C J (C J), Monday, 3 February 2003 16:15 (twenty-three years ago)

But CJ, compared to the aural wasteland that was 80s hair metal, mainstream music today is vibrant, diverse and wonderful.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 3 February 2003 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

But CJ, compared to the aural wasteland that was 80s hair metal

I'm sorry, could you turn down your prized copy of Slippery When Wet and say that again?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 16:21 (twenty-three years ago)

_Slippery When Wet_ has two good songs on it ("Livin' On A Prayer", "Wanted Dead Or Alive"). That's it.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 3 February 2003 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

*bows in acknowledgement* As opposed to Poison's greatest hits, which has at least three... *runs away*

Dan's larger point is of course valid. There's a whole lotta wonderfully weird stuff going on at present on the one hand, though I am wondering what the latest kickstart if any will be to something else. Ever coasting onward...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't buy that nothing happened during the 90s and 00s so far: during that time period there's been a lot of movement on the electronic front, notably. I'm not in the best mindset to argue this properly right now, but artists like Prodigy, The Orb, maybe Moby, were doing things that were pretty different from the "techno-" music that came out of the 80s. Maybe someone else can run with this while I'm trying to find my critical brain...

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 3 February 2003 16:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, and further to what Dan said, if the 90s did nothing else for us, they created a much nicer diversity of sounds and styles to the table, sometimes all in the same song. There were certainly genre-crossing acts beforehand, but in the 90s you were far more likely to hear artists incorporating hip hop style into a rock song, or vice versa, as well as pan-cultural music within the mainstream.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 3 February 2003 16:39 (twenty-three years ago)

The 90s and 00s have the the best era yet. Whenever ppl disagree I think of those anti-consumerist windbags, "There's so many options but no real choice!" Eat cold beans every day then and quit whining! Doesn't anyone remember what life was like pre-ATMs? 'Pushed further underground', no problem, just get a bigger shovel!

dave q, Monday, 3 February 2003 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I have to admit that my interest in current music dropped way down during the 90's, but that may say more about the limitations in my taste than about what's happening. Maybe time will tell.

(I can't resist pointing out the obvious, but that timeline applies mostly just to music from the Anglophone world. That's somewhat irrelevant to the case you're making, as far as I'm concerned anyway, since I can't point to any really exciting new developments in the 90's+ for music from other parts of the world, though Cuban timba was at least new and exciting to someone.)

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 3 February 2003 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I heard that NARAS and the RIAA are about to start butting heads. You gotta love that.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 3 February 2003 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

"Instant live CDs of a concert? Testing to begin in Boston


By Steve Morse, Globe Staff, 2/7/2003 (Boston Globe)

Experiments are rife in the music business these days -- and Boston will be a test market for one of the most novel of them. Clear Channel Concerts, the nation's largest concert promoter, has ambitious plans to record live CDs of its shows and sell them to patrons within five minutes after those shows end. Clear Channel is targeting Boston as the first site for the new plan, according to sources within the organization.

Multiple CD burners would be brought in, and the live CDs would probably sell for around $15 in the same way that T-shirts and other merchandise can be purchased after concerts. No one knows what the demand would be, but the project is expected to begin at club shows within a couple of months, then be refined and work its way up to the amphitheater level, though that may not happen until next year, sources say.

Clear Channel spokeswoman Pam Fallon would not confirm or deny word of the CD burning and sales plan. ''All I can say is that we're working on a series of initiatives in the next couple of months,'' she said.

Clear Channel vice president Steve Simon, who works at Cambridge's Clear Channel office and has helped manage the platinum-selling band Boston, is said to be heading the project.

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 10 February 2003 13:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Major slump for UK record industry
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/2743833.stm

another news story about the decline in album sales due to piracy.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 10 February 2003 13:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I like how 4% is considered a huge problem for the record industry, whereas it's just considered part of the risk of doing business in many other sectors. I'm one of those critics halfway down the page: I think they're hiding behind piracy. I was actually just talking about this on the phone recently with someone, and my belief is that the record industry is the major one to blame here, not only for not offering digital downloads, but for making a good chunk of what they've been releasing lately either totally irrelevant to the listening public by continuing to follow the Massive Superstar formula (and giving whacks of money to yesterday's stars to release albums that will only sell marginally), and by continuing to bet the farm on albums by SINGLES acts. The latter is probably the more important: people have realized that if they go out and buy an album from someone they've heard on the radio, chances are they're going to get a single with 9 other pieces of crud tacked on...why not just save your money and download the single?

Someone else pointed out elsethread that the industry had tried and failed to create a good working model where someone could walk into a store and walk out 15 minutes later with a custom-burned royalty-paid CD of all their favourite pop hits. They had better get working on this again if they really want to make money off of singles artist, or try to make radio pay for singles at a higher rate than standard airplay royalties, to offset the costs of creation.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 10 February 2003 14:41 (twenty-three years ago)

haha dave225 i bet a lot of big-time bands would NEVER allow their non-overdubbed live sh*t be xposed for all ears to hear (i.e. LARS ULRICH)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I had to laugh this morning listening to the radio.

I was listening to a very grown-up discussion about falling record sales. Of course, piracy was being blamed by this record company man.

The interviewer had done his homework and said that whilst blank CD sales had remain largely static over the last few years, the record industry was complaining only now of piracy.

Cue record company man to almost choke.

Then the interviewer said something like 'Isn't because people are tired of hearing the same old rubbish you are putting out.'

Cue record company man to have a fit of the "Er's"

Then the interviewer said the number of white label releases making it into the Top 40 singles was reaching an all time high. Implying that the music people obviously liked didn't even have record company backing.

Cue record company man to sound like there was an impending heart-attack on the way.

It was magnificent.

C J (C J), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 23:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what show was this? sounds splendid.

Charlie (Charlie), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 23:29 (twenty-three years ago)

XFM

C J (C J), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 08:49 (twenty-three years ago)

hahaha !! that's fantastic.

but *which* white labels are we talking about ?
and by who ?
and how are they getting into the chart ?
how *can* they i mean ?

piscesboy, Wednesday, 12 February 2003 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

five years pass...

Revive!

Can someone please explain why the music industry believes that the USB stick will generate excitement about their product(s)? The article's here.

Also: the Mars Volta USB gimmick costs $30? They're marketing music like premium vodka now?

fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:15 (eighteen years ago)

The USB stick thing is absolutely gobsmackingly stupid to me. I get these things thrust at me as free gifts at work; who would pay £15 quid for one with tiny capacity for ONE SONG? Even a whole album?

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:19 (eighteen years ago)

but... it's the future! (lol)

StanM, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:21 (eighteen years ago)

they should have a pen at the other end. usefuller.

blueski, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:22 (eighteen years ago)

a pen? that's like a wireless printer, right? cool!

StanM, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:29 (eighteen years ago)

are these people even capable of embarrassment

the boosterism in that article is shameless

Tracer Hand, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:33 (eighteen years ago)

A friend of mine bought the Stones "Rolled Gold" set on USB stick. It had files at 160kbps. I would have expected a higher bitrate than that, wouldn't you?

Rob M v2, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:47 (eighteen years ago)

i argued myself blue in the face with industry types behind these decisions. no one is willing to believe that if critics think they're a bad idea, they won't ever get promoted as anything but a bad idea. [in case you hadn't seen the deciblog's take on the mars volta USB gimmick, you can find it here.

more unbelievably, they really think these things will be reused. dear music industy: using the livestrong bracelet as your marketing model = not a good look. it's a good thing they'll never sell in sufficient numbers, otherwise they'd be destined for landfills all across the continent.

fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 18 February 2008 13:32 (eighteen years ago)

i guess what kills me about this is the insistence on delivering some physical product. is it impossible to refashion the production cycle around more ethereal [read: cheaper to produce] mp3s?

fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 18 February 2008 13:38 (eighteen years ago)


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