Greatest Music-producing Nation

TMFTML
http://intonation.blogspot.com

NEW RULE:
You can't nominate your home country.

As far as Canada goes, I think the negatives (Celine, Shania, Bare Naked Ladies, Crash Test Dummies, Men Without Hats, Rush, Anne Murray) outweigh the positives (Daniel Lanois, Neil Young, Swollen Members, Da Grassroots and other hiphoppers, Maynard Ferguson) and neutrals (Rage..., Sarah Maclaughlin, k.d. lang). Of course I'm forgetting many, but oh well.

After that I guess it's USA and Spain.

a) the influence given it's size and economic status

b) absorbing influences from everywhere, but never producing lame immitations. You never hear bad soul or rock or techno or rap coming from Jamaica; always local blends that have absorbed them and turned them into something different.

I'd put UK and Germany equal, but if you actually do a per capita calculation, UK must win 'cos it has half the population.

Brazil and India are musical powerhouses. (I'd say they compete with the US in amount of, and variety of music produced) but because they have such large populations they won't win in this game.

BTW, Jamaica has 2.5 million -- So they'd have to be 9 or ten times more influential than.... yeah, maybe you got something there.

Sigur Ros, Bjork, Gus Gus, Quarashi, Leaves...there's definitely something going on up there.

Teenage Fanclub, B&S, John Martyn, Donovan, Mogwai, Primal Scream, Jesus and Mary Chain, David Byrne, Cocteau Twins, I rest my case.

New Orleans' population is under half a million.
Kingston is right around half a million, too.
Plus, I'm guessing the musicians in Reykavik (sp?) are little wealthier than those in New Orleans circa 1920 or Kingston circa 1975.

(I don't mean to shout, I just don't know how to italicise in HTML)

Bob Marley, John Cale, Super Furry Animals, Gorkys, Tom Jones, Catatonia, Manics.

Oh yeah, but almost every country and person that's been mentioned has been heavily influenced by America. Virtually all music created in the last 100 years owes a debt to America.
German techno comes from Detroit techno.
British soul comes from American soul.
Ska and reggae come from American soul, blues and jazz.
Even the weird Icelandic stuff can be seen as an offshoot of American experimental rock.

I'm not arguing for US, but I think it shouldn't be written off. If our population is 100X that of Jamaica, then we should have an influence 100X that of Jamaica. Whether we do or not can be debated, but I think a case can be made.
Consider what US has invented:
Jazz
Blues
Rock
Hip Hop
Techno
House
Funk
Soul
Country
Gospel

I like Canada as an answer but it's disqualified since I'm a resident. Per capita, it's hard to beat Iceland I'd think. I can think of five bands right off the top of my head, and that constitutes probably a full third of the population. ;)

So, basically, Japan or the UK. UK probably wins based on the per capita rider and the fact that I can afford more of it.

The Rage that's in my head. That should've been deleted as one site I looked at listed Rage Against the Machine as being from Canada. I started to put them down, but then remembered they are from LA.
Either way, I can't stand them.

Ah, typical elitist, Western-biased rock fan's horseshit. I bet you think 'they' all look alike, too. Try learning some reggae tunes and then report how many notes you used.

Can anyone think of an album that has sold 1 million copies that wasn't influenced by American music?!?

Next to America Jamaica is the clear second choice. Iceland may have more recognized bands per capita, but who have GusGus or Sigor Ros influenced? Other bands of similar stature at best. Basically, outside of die-hard music fans no one has heard of them and their influence has been minimal (although it may become more significant in time).

Who hasn't heard of Bob Marley? Desmond Dekker? Sly & Robbie? Lee "Scratch" Perry ? Jimmy Cliff?

Even their newer less ledgendary artists like Shabba Ranks, Buju Banton, Beenie Man, Bounty Killer, Shaggy etc. have had a much larger impact on the world music scene than anything from Iceland (possible exception being Björk - but I think even thats debatable - I doubt the Sugercubes/Björk combined haven't sold the number of albums Shaggy has).

i'm coming 'round to the US actually. Look at the charts of almost any other country in the world (if charts can be said to represent "best and most influential")

I thought it went without saying that anything being produced now has benn influenced by the last 100 years worth of music.

If you look at album sales the big three are hip-hop, country and R&B flavoured pop...each of those styles originated in the US.

No one has offerend an answer to my question - "Can anyone think of an album that has sold 1 million copies that wasn't influenced by American music?" so I think that pretty much ends the debate - America has the biggest influence on the world music scene, even considering its large population and 'per capita' bands the US is still FAR ahead of the rest of the world.

Why, yes: Wendy Carlos' Switched-On Bach.

Yeah, sort of....with Celine Dion he sold something like 10 million records (world wide), without her his best selling album is 300,000.
I think its fair to say that sales were driven by Celine fans.

Even still, for every 1 million selling album NOT infleunced by American music there's probably 1000 that are :o)

Fuck you, I listen to lots of black people music.

" Virtually all music created in the last 100 years owes a debt to America. "

untruer words *have* been spoken, yet not too often
(even that "virtually" doesn't quite save that sentence)

untruer words *have* been spoken, yet not too often
(even that "virtually" doesn't quite save that sentence)

Thanks for coming in here just to bash others. Appreciate it.
Maybe should have said 'all popular music', so sue me. The question did mention 'most influential' so if you could show me new music forms that haven't been influenced by America, I'd like to hear of them.

i'm not some 'visiting flame thrower'; there're a few things,though, which tend to get my goat, i admit
first: when writing or saying "music", people seem to automatically assume that in everybody's opinion this must mean "the-pop-music-of-the-western-model-of-approx.-1920/30s-to-today"
(or that "music"=all music=music business)
second: the implication "(all)western culture=american culture"

In the given time period of the last 100 years (although last 80 is probably more accurate) and most significant to the original question - whats important now- its nearly impossible to think of any music of influence that doesn't owe a debt to the US.

People have mentioned a opera or classical but I don't think either can be called influencial any sort of broad term and neither can truly be considered 20th/21st century music. Having said that, when you look at modern classical I think the US has done well...Leonard Bernstein, John Williams, Henry Mancini plus the others who have been mentioned.

Of the top of my head I can barely think of any popular music form that doesn't have roots in america...Industrial I supposed is German/English (Kraftwork started it all, but really Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire made the biggest advances until Einstürzende Neubauten sort of cemented the sound)....I think the origins of synth-pop are distinctly british although the major influences on that genre (Bowie/Roxy Music) owe alot to the US.

As mentioned early there are barely any albums that have sold 1 million plus copies that aren't American influenced...there's a quite a few Reggae albums (which is why I nominated Jamaica 2nd!) but beyond that was is there ?!? That album of Gregorian Chants? The Three Tennors? Bocelli? Probably some Chinese and Indian albums (although low disposible incomes in those countrys probably keep albums sales relatively low)? Maybe the folk music of a half dozen nations (AT BEST)? Its had to compare that with the hundreds of albums that sell 1 million plus copies a year EVERY year who play 'american' (recently mainly rock, hip-hop and country) music.

The simple fact that American music forms dominate foreign charts seems to me a pretty clear indication of its influence...they've exported their creations world wide like no other country has.

How can you begin to make an arguement for Canada without mentioning Walter Ostanek ?!? He's THE polka king!

What country produces produces, not produced

produces. not makes, not creates. produces = product

the best best product.
and most influential music = best musical product.

per capita
per capita...its a GNP question.

so thats why i put up the other thread...stupid though it may be (?)

has mark s given up? is he too tired to argue?

Also, Jamaica has had an incredible influence over the way music is heard in the world. The whole idea of the DJ comes from Jamaica. The dancehall gave way to danceclubs and, eventually, rave culture. How one can downplay this is questionable.

Also, the very fact that Jamaicans were the first to use the studio and recording equipment as instruments are major acheivements. When King Tubby made the first dub version because someone forgot to bring him a vocal track, he gave birth to the remix.

Jamaica is the godfather of almost all electronic music...in addition, one could easily argue for its role in the creation of what we in North America now term "urban" music. The Neptunes now basically control the sound of pop music. Rewind 10 years and take a listen to Sly and Robbie or Dave Kelly--the similarities are obvious.

Let's not forget the role of Jamaica in the birth of punk rock. The anger and protest of punk rock musicians is very much influenced by Jamaican music and Jamaicans in the UK. The Clash directly states this in their name: a tribute to the Jamaican sound clash.

Let's not forget Mr. Robert Nesta Marley--single-handedly making "world beat" a concept. There was also NO SUCH THING as a superstar from a developing nation. The impact of this acheivement reaches much more than just music.

One big vote for JA over here.

What's up w/ this? This is like the second or third time I've read this on this thread (or the other related ones). So when George Martin and the Beatles put tape-speed effects and backwards recordings on "Rain" "I'm Only Sleeping" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" in early 1966, they weren't using the studio-as-instrument?

as for influence...where do slave hymns come from? i'm guessing its africans singing christian hymns? it occurred in the US but the roots are obviously elsewhere...

Not that I'm voting for Jamaica.

As far as working on limited means, I'd guess that the Beatles gross for, let's say 1966, was bigger than the Jamaican music industry as a whole (maybe bigger than Jamaica's GNP)
Plus, Jamaican producers had to cater to a specific, dance-oriented market. There wasn't a Greenwich Village in east Kingston to pay homage to experimental, avant-garde artists. (That would be interesting to hear the results of Lee Perry or Burning Spear hanging out with some artsy-fartsy, intellectual types)
The fact that any sonic experimentation was even tried is remarkable.

Zumpano
Destroyer
Sloan
Eric's Trip
Super Friends/Flashing Lights
Duotang
New Pornographers
Young And Sexy
Jale
Plumtree
Cub (ha!)
the Organ

not to mention
Joni Mitchell
Bruce Cockburn
Neil Young
Gordon Lightfoot
and so on...

But yeah, I'm totally biased.

If you want present day evidence, go to a Jamaican record shop and ask to listen to a few of the lastest Sizzla 45s--it becomes plainly evident that these are one off products.

Oh, and Sir George Martin, though he may be amazing, has nothing on Lee Perry.

does it exist? yowsa! if only babelfish translated Farsi...