Maybe she suffered from not having enough of a strong image or attitude; 'regular guy' artists getting more respect for writing well-crafted lyrics and melodies if they are male. Or maybe she suffered by playing second fiddle to too many notable collaborators.
Anyway, I'll miss her.
N. x
― Nick Dastoor, Tuesday, 19 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
There did seem to be a time when every mainstream guitar-pop record in the UK had to feature Kirsty on backing vocals. Even those not produced by Steve Lillywhite.
There was "They Don't Know", of course - a bit of a gem, and indirectly responsible for turning Tracey Ullmann into a millionaire. I think Lenny Henry had first refusal...
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 19 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― PhilT, Wednesday, 20 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― hymie schloima, Sunday, 24 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Still, we've got Cast.
Merry Bloody Xmas.
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 26 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Hymie Schloima, Wednesday, 3 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Nor can I remember the precise course of events re: the album. Did Mavers get to use his prized '60s mixing desk in the end? Hey - studio-as-instrument, Reynolds should've loved them. Without getting into the production minutiae too much, this kinda suggests that they were struggling to get that 'warm' sound on tape/DAT/whatever, and were reduced to playing the old vintage gear game (Lillywhite might well have been gating and filtering like billy-o, but there's no reason why you can't capture the essence of a four-piece guitar band in situ digitally or otherwise; that LP doesn't sound all that airbrushed to me).
Anyway, as a Merseysider, I guess it was the whole Scouse mythos ("All life comes from the 'Pool... Mersey-sippi") that really irked me. The La's were Carla Lane to the Bunnymen's Bleasdale.
― Michael Jones, Wednesday, 3 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
I'd also strongly disagree that the digital format is very good to record guitars with. The whole Shinkansen stable on based on this fatal misconception. Of course I'd loved to be proven wrong :-)
― hymie schloima, Wednesday, 3 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
As for analogue/digital - surely the only difference in this regard is that analogue tape saturates in a fairly benign and euphonic way if you overload it, and digital clips nastily. Obviously the answer to the latter problem is 'don't overload' (and get the sound you want in the studio monitors, without relying on the recording medium to give it to you), while the former effect might be desirable. As far as I can tell, modern digital recording gear should be more faithful to the mike feed than anything outside 30ips 1/2-inch, as long as you actually *have* a mike feed. A guitar plugged straight into a mixing board and a raft of DSP effects isn't going to sound anything like a guitar played through an amp into a real acoustic space, but that's no indictment of digital per se, just the way folks use it. Not that's there anything 'wrong' with the processed approach either...
Jeez, I didn't mean to turn this into the letters page in "Guitar Technology". I'm patently speaking from near-zero experience, anyhow.
The valve thing is like tape distortion, only more extreme. Overdrive the amp into clipping, and valves sound much richer 'abused' that way than transistorised circuits. The allure of after-the-fact benign distortion is not lost on the tech-savvy - some electronic artists master to 1/4-inch at high levels because they like the effect of mild tape compression, and most VST software offers some kind of virtual tape-compressor option.
Kirsty MacColl used to perform "Transparent Radiation" as an encore on the "Titanic Days" tour.
― Pete, Monday, 8 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
The only trouble with that track is the way the lead guitars 'clip' in the middle. I reckon some idiot 'overloaded' it.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 13 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 24 May 2003 03:52 (twenty years ago) link
I haven't even listened too closely to the story being told in that song, but there's something about it, just the little details and the strings and the whole arrangement and the enthusiasm/scorn/catharsis in Kirsty and Shane's voices, that really captures the transcendent highs and lows of Christmastime.
― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 24 May 2003 04:03 (twenty years ago) link
Amateurist is OTM. Kirsty was as good as her material was - but she's still cool as far as I'm concerned.
― Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 24 May 2003 04:45 (twenty years ago) link
They Don't Know About Us.
I never realized how shit Kirsty MacColl was for what she did to the La's till I read this thread.
I don't care because Kite is great and "they don't know" is perfect.
― james k polk, Sunday, 1 February 2009 06:01 (fifteen years ago) link
Did you read the blogpost on my blog?
http://windyweather-bimble.blogspot.com/2009/01/theres-been-lull-i-know.html
― Ozzy Goth Beatles (Bimble), Sunday, 1 February 2009 06:12 (fifteen years ago) link
don't make me pull out Kite oh god
OKAY IT'S NOT ON MY IPOD BUT IT WILL BE SOON
― Ozzy Goth Beatles (Bimble), Sunday, 1 February 2009 06:14 (fifteen years ago) link
love her, maybe more than she deserves. i got stuck on "he's on the beach" a while ago, played it 5 or 6 times on my ipod. i had no idea the lemonheads covered it .
her version of "perfect day with evan dando is nice too.
wonder wtf their connection was. but i guess, look at the guys she sang with or behind: dando, macgowan, shaun ryder. if she'd lived, she'd probably have a pete doherty duet in there too.
i definitely think "they don't know" is a pop pinnacle. one of my favorite songs of the '80s, or ever.
― paper plans (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 1 February 2009 06:22 (fifteen years ago) link
i'm totally with you tipsy on "they don't know"...I'm now obsessed with obtaining a copy of Galore (and maybe Kite too)
― they dont know bout us and theyve never heard of drugs (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 28 February 2009 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link
I've always liked "Walking Down Madison," one of the few times that early nineties white girl-with-hip-hop backbeat works -- perhaps because the song is itself about tourism.
― The Screaming Lobster of Challops (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 February 2009 21:24 (fifteen years ago) link
i heard the only reason her version of "they don't know" wasn't a hit was bcz there was a distributor's strike right when it had been released and they couldn't get the singles out of the warehouses into the stores...
that strikes me as ineffably...sad...
― they dont know bout us and theyve never heard of drugs (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 28 February 2009 22:09 (fifteen years ago) link
She was beautiful, and a fantastic songwriter and lyricist.
― Sleep Tundra (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Saturday, 28 February 2009 22:11 (fifteen years ago) link
totally, Mark. I might post Free World on yr thread here in a sec...
― they dont know bout us and theyve never heard of drugs (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 28 February 2009 22:14 (fifteen years ago) link
(btw the first 12 posts on this thread made me virulently hate ILM for a few minutes...but all that has passed...still, stfu stupid condescending sh*theads...)
― they dont know bout us and theyve never heard of drugs (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 28 February 2009 22:18 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, none of those blokes actually performed with her, so they all suck.
― Sleep Tundra (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Saturday, 28 February 2009 22:35 (fifteen years ago) link
I kinda love "Walking Down Madison" and "He's On The Beach," you know.
― Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 19 June 2010 02:59 (thirteen years ago) link
I finally 'discovered' her last year despite hearing her all over great records I loved. Her box set is fantastic start to finish.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 19 June 2010 03:09 (thirteen years ago) link
If my memory is right, Johnny Marr claims he sent her "Walking Down Madison" mostly as an unfinished demo, for feedback, and she responded by finishing it and sending it back as it now is.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 June 2010 03:48 (thirteen years ago) link
Ten years.
Rest well.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 18 December 2010 06:57 (thirteen years ago) link
aw, man :(
'he's on the beach' is superb
― dashboard dolly (donna rouge), Saturday, 18 December 2010 06:59 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7ieij6JPiw
― baubles to the wall (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 18 December 2010 12:08 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irgsx58SkJI
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 18 December 2010 12:23 (thirteen years ago) link
i forgot she was on Top Of The Pops with this lot until just this week:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmUIEs10O4
pretty cool as it goes!
― piscesx, Saturday, 18 December 2010 14:03 (thirteen years ago) link
tragically there doesn't seem to be a proper version of "Fifteen Minutes" on Youtube.
― baubles to the wall (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 18 December 2010 14:04 (thirteen years ago) link
I've been a loving fan of "Fairytale of New York," "The Passion" and "Greetings to the New Brunette," and Tracy Ullman's "They Don't Know" for years without ever knowing until yesterday that they had this connection.
http://www.kirstymaccoll.com/music/bvox/
Good to see all the threads and fans here, but I feel very silly. I even have the Smiths, Pogues, and Billy Bragg grouped together on the shelf with a gap in the middle, as if waiting to be filled with MacColl's retrospective. Man, the character of her voice is so strong.
― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 22:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah the three disc overview is pretty much urgent and key.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 23:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Funny -- I listened to Galore on Sunday morning, when it suited the mood and temperature. I could listen to "A New England," "Innocence," and "Walking Down Madison" every day. I won't do much with the following analogy except to mention it: she's got the same excellent wistfulness and evanescence of good Saint Etienne.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 23:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Pete - I had the exact same experience a couple of years ago! Get the "From Cuba To Croydon" box, the BBC sessions disc, "What Pretty Girls Do" and then make a bonus disc with:
1. Turn My Motor On (Stiff Singles)2. Teenager In Love (Desperate Character)3. Quietly Alone (Stiff Singles)4. I'm Going Out With An Eighty Year Old Millionaire (Stiff Singles)5. Please, Go To Sleep (Stiff Singles)6. Fifteen Minutes (Kite)7. You And Me Baby (Kite)8. Children Of The Revolution (Electric Landlady)9. Maybe It's Imaginary (Electric Landlady)10. Big Boy On A Saturday Night (Titanic Days)11. Touch Me (Titanic Days)12. Treachery (Tropical Brainstorm)13. Us Amazonians (Tropical Brainstorm)14. Shutting The Doors (Jools Holland - Jack O The Green)15. Sun On The Water (The Best Of)- this is the proper studio version, the one on the box is the demo
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 23:54 (thirteen years ago) link
[...] BOOOOO for the DVD now being sold separately!yay if that Stiff/sessions thing happens I guess― kit, Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:06 (6 years ago)
yay if that Stiff/sessions thing happens I guess
― kit, Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:06 (6 years ago)
^ still have never bought either bcz of this
― basically just a 2/47 freak out (sic), Thursday, 3 February 2011 00:22 (thirteen years ago) link
did buy the Landlady and Kite re-releases though, Tropical re-release didn't come out here
― basically just a 2/47 freak out (sic), Thursday, 3 February 2011 00:24 (thirteen years ago) link
Tropical re-release Titanic
― basically just a 2/47 freak out (sic), Thursday, 3 February 2011 01:21 (thirteen years ago) link
man she is a genius songwriter and singer
never really checked her out before today
i knew "walking down madison" but that was it
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 9 November 2013 00:13 (ten years ago) link
otm
― ͼѾͽ (sic), Saturday, 9 November 2013 02:56 (ten years ago) link
She's one of a handful of acts I so, so wish were still alive. Miss her.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 9 November 2013 04:51 (ten years ago) link
Her cover of Ray Davies's "Days" is absolutely awesome as well.
― t**t, Saturday, 9 November 2013 10:24 (ten years ago) link
Some of the best things in the boxed set are songs like these, from her unreleased "Real" album, which sounds pretty awesome to me right now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpDFvr4H6VQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVGKvFAZgNw
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 9 May 2014 14:26 (ten years ago) link
I've been meaning to check out some of her stuff. I love Lydia Loveless's cover of "They Don't Know".
― jmm, Friday, 9 May 2014 15:23 (ten years ago) link
Wow, a newbie. Kite is an incredible record. As is Electric Landlady. Plus all her early stuff ... Really, it's hard to go wrong.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 9 May 2014 15:26 (ten years ago) link
shee-it! just bumped "us amazonians" off of Tropical Brainstorm…so…
if you ever get tired of Elvis Costello's "look at me, I'm the Yngwie of lyrics" thing, which I have been for about 23 years, then you gotta check out Kirsty. Like, "innocence," the first cut off the first record that the esteemed Herr In Chicago cites, is about as cold a put-down as can be done, and it is perpetrated with astute, clever but not florid language.
― veronica moser, Friday, 9 May 2014 17:23 (ten years ago) link
New NYT piece (gift link) by Bob Mehr tying in with the box set about out.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 2 November 2023 18:16 (six months ago) link
"Kirsty MacColl - why never cool?" More like, "Kirsty MacColl - she was cooler than us all."
I had no idea there was a new boxed set, thanks. I'm a little torn about positioning her as "she recorded this famous Christmas duet, but here's what else she did," since I've always thought of MacColl as "she recorded all this great stuff, plus this famous Christmas duet," but hey, whatever it takes to get her body of work more attention.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 November 2023 19:14 (six months ago) link
In strict American terms it's probably the easiest hook for a general reader these days.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 2 November 2023 19:16 (six months ago) link
The Guardian has a cool piece as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/nov/02/kirsty-maccoll-box-set-steve-lillywhite-mark-nevin-pogues
I had not idea she was just 16 when she wrote 'They Don't Know,' very precocious
― Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 2 November 2023 19:24 (six months ago) link
I've never listened to Desperate character until now: is it possible that the drummer on "Chip Shop" isn't terry Williams? Wiki sez that Bremner is on the record, but that the sole drummer is Lee Partis, who if so is the greatest Terry Williams-style drummer other than Williams to have ever existed…
― veronica moser, Friday, 3 November 2023 15:38 (six months ago) link