Celebrity Death Match: Plunderphonic vs Negativland

Oswald.
Negativland and their progeny Chumbawamba and Adbusters were dated the day they started, due to art crime #1 - not being remotely as clever as they thought they were - the whole 'appropriation' genre (KLF excepted) was a living breathing A-level cliche. "Information wants to be free" is as profound (and as relevant to today) as "Nixon's the One" or "Hell no we won't go."

I mean, 'information' either IS free or it isn't, it doesn't/CAN't 'want' to be anything. ANyway, Negativland proved that it isn't by getting their asses sued off. I hope Bono bought something completely frivolous with the money and I wouldn't begrudge him one tiny bit. Greg Ginn too. Negativland collectively weren't fit to lance a boil on Ginn's arse.

Plus I hate Negativland for their 'Christianity is Stupid' t-shirts. If you're going to shoot fish in a barrel at least have fun doing it, like Cradle of Filth or Sonic Youth. Organized religion, wow. That would make jethro Tull's 'Aqualung' the most profound philosophical tract of all time.

Bono tied the money up in note-form into bundles, and set fire to it all. Totally cool art-move: he DIDN'T FILM IT OR TELL ANYONE. Oswald = Negativland = waste of everyone's time. Actually I kinda want to like GREYFOLD or whatever the G.Dead thing is called because everyone (except B*ba K*pf) totally hates the Dead and this is boring — HOWEVER: I can.t be arsed.

Flashback to the 'least collectable records' thread - you can find a copy of 'Grayfolded' anywhere for £1, which is particularly galling as I paid £18 for it, and got halfway through CD1. I know, my fault.

really? i'll swap you a copy of "Pal Joey" for one...

I'm shocked about Bono burning that money. Did he really? Perhaps he was making a joking reference to KLF burning a million pounds on an island. When someone told me about that I couldn't really comprehend it.

THINK Mark S was joking (but sometimes it's hard to tell...) Anyway, the rest of U2 should've burnt Bono and kept the cash...

Have read the Negativland booklet about their 'ordeal' and they don't half come across as a bunch of smug hippy whingers, whatever the merits of their 'case'. And their records just aren't very funny. Also bought the Plunderphonics box, which does have a few startling moments, but on the whole doesn't live up to the HUGE claims made for it by Oswald in the 'deluxe' booklet - here's someone not afraid to announce their own genius. Have read that he's a good sax player, tho... I'd say that Christian Marclay remains the true 'brand leader' for this kind of stuff - his 'More Encores' CD on ReR really does work as music and as 'deconstruction'.

what about v/vm? perhaps they've saturated the market with this now, but surely the stockport copyrite destroyer wins the day?

I still remember the day in the late 1980's when friends of mine in The Tape Beatles, who'd recently visited John Oswald in Canada, played me his version of "Bad." "All done WITHOUT computers," I was told they'd been told. Amazing.

Around the same time I got a copy of Negativeland's current cassette. "Amusing but too much frat-boy humor," I thought. Still, it had to be done.

Today The Bran Flakes (along with The Tape Beatles, of course) are doing some of the best work in the genre, bringing back a much-needed sense of light-hearted humor, rather than just bitter social satire.

Today--or rather, a month ago--Oswald's first symphony (can't remember what it's called) was performed at Symphony Hall in Boston. Darn, I wish I hadn't missed it. Must've sold out, I can hear you all thinking...

Today, as it turns out, my nephew directs the German version of MTV's "Celebrity Deathmatch." Maybe I should ask him if he'd like to try out a Plunderphonics-style episode, though over there it might have to be more along the lines of Holger Czukay vs. Holger Hiller.

Sorry if I'm trying to make it sound as if I'm at the center of some glamorous anti-celebrity world. I'm a nothing, and like it that way.

Thanks, X - I'm glad someone defended the genre. And the Bran Flakes - they're not just clever, they're musically satisfying. Have you heard the one where they nicked "He's a Rebel"? They're almost a pop group. Love them.

the best thing in this "genre" that i 've heard in the last couple yrs was the Evolution Control Committee's "Rocked By Rape". It's a cut up of (i think) Dan Rather spewing all kinds of meaninglessly violent & negative imagery (my favourite phrase - "hard-hitting losers!") over music taken from "Back in Black" by AC/DC & a bunch of other stuff. It got its own little court case too so you can't get the record any more, but it's downloadable (if you can do that kind of stuff, I can't) from their website - can't find the URL but do a Google search & you oughta be able to find it. They also did a hilarious "remix" of "Night of the Living Baseheads" which has Chuck D. rappin' over some kind of polka record.
FWIW i think Negativland are nowhere near as dull & useless as everyone else here seems to think, but to enjoy their stuff i guess it's preferable that (a)it's the 1st time you've ever heard it (b) yr listening while it's still kind of topical (in most cases ) & (c) of course if you smoke pot. smoke pot smoke pot smoke pot, are you sick of me talking about smoking pot all the time yet or WHAT.

They also put the rap from "By The Time I Get To Arizona" over, I think, a Herb Alpert track.

That's "By The Time I Get To Phoenix," Robin. Oh, well, close enough. They also pulled a clever/irritating stunt by setting loose bogus Madonna, Brittney, U2, etc. songs on Napster that were really "Rocked By Rape." According to the perpetrators, most of their victims enjoyed the joke. I agree, another fun band in an often too-serious genre.

I don't know anything about this, but I assume Robin was referring to the Public Enemy track, which was called 'By The Time I Get To Arizona', given that he said 'rap'. I don't remember any rapping in the Jimmy Webb song.

Wrong again--you're both right. Obviously the Public Enemy song's title was influenced by Jimmy Webb. That's what I get for trying to be a know-it-all.

Just to muddy the waters even further, the Issac Hayes version of 'By The Time I Get To Phoenix' DOES include a looong spoken-word 'rap' at the start, before the song proper begins some five minutes (or longer) in.

yeah i was wrong about the PE song , i was working from my (lousy) memory, sorry.

I mean , I think that the version of "...Baseheads" that I mentioned doesn't even exist & that I was thinking of the version of "...Arizona" that Robin mentioned. But I can't check up on it 'cause I don't have a copy (heard it many months ago & miles back) (specifically - in Cleveland OH in about August last year)

Anyone who's read my allmusic.com reviews probably knows where I'm going to fall on this issue: I'm going to stick up for all of the above. I declare Plunderphonic vs. Negativland a draw, because they both have their high and low points. Sure, Negativland can be a bit stupid sometimes ("OJ and His Personal Trainer Kill Ron and Nicole" is a low point for the Negs) but when they do it right, it's sublime.

Hearty seconds for the Escape From Noise album for pulling off two things at the same time: 1) creating a fantastic piece of work with disparate sound sources melded near-seamlessly to create something that's new and interesting and: 2) maintaining a sense of humour throughout, instead of adopting the "oh we're so serious, this tape cut-up stuff is high art" mentality of so many others. Why can't you do found-sound stuff AND have fun at the same time? Sure, The Weatherman can certainly be annoying from time to time, but then he can turn around and deconstruct U2 lyrics and make all of the rambling-kook-with-electronics schtick forgivable.

Plunderphonics is another ball o'tape entirely. I still love Oswald's inverting of pieces, but trying to compare "Dab" with the Negs is missing the point of what both are trying to do: Negativland are taking things out of context and supplementing with their own sounds. Plunderphonics' mission is to destroy context entirely, but only with what's immediately at hand, by turning the works inside out...millisecond by millisecond, if necessary. Much of the Plunderbox is amazing even if only to note that a lot of Oswald's manipulation was done before computer editing was really feasible. Was there a point? Maybe not all of the time, but as an exploration of sonics and reducing the familiar to granular chunks and then re- casting it in a new order...it's still a concept that's worth trying.

By the way, the Evolution Control Committee definitely do have a website, and you can always download a ton of goodies from it. Check it. My personal fave: "The Fucking Moon". Mark Gunderson (aka The ECC) has been touring hither and yon with his new instrument of choice, the Thimbletron, a series of thimbles and sensors on the ends of his fingers. Much wiggling, much audio triggering. Definitely worth checking out if he comes to your town and you're into found, mutilated, and repackaged sound.

help me sean i am drowning in lame boredom!!