Could somone summarise thread "...Robert Christgau's sentences" for me?

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Because it keeps crashing my computer every time I try to open it...

Jerry (Jerry), Thursday, 13 February 2003 09:43 (twenty-three years ago)

hahaha!

well, let's say momus got going.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 13 February 2003 10:19 (twenty-three years ago)

whats the url???

stevie (stevie), Thursday, 13 February 2003 12:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I can try, but remember, I'm not perfect or Ned Raggett or anything.

::clearing throat::

Xgau's review of Nas' The Lost Tapes was confusing. Xgau said that Nas was more effective in his hip-hop nostalgia and pronunciation than Missy and Tim are. Dan Perry gets irritated by incorrect grammar. Jody Beth Rosen gets irritated by something the Amateurist said, and renounces her ILX crush on him. Momus gets irritated by Xgau, whom he thinks is trying to fake his populism. ILM gets irritated by Momus, who may or may not have raging classism issues and definitions he should attend to, being a Eurochild. Xgau may or may not have indirectly called Momus a dandy, because he was irriated by Momus'sexual egomania and baby envy. Jess still prefers the Poobah. This thread is beating the dicks thread. Momus has issues with Pauline Kael's negligence of analyzing political matters in her legendary reviews. The Markettes would be better MoTown singers than the Paulettes. The Pinefox agrees with the second half of the Nipper's post. Frank Kogan figured out that "back-in-the-day" could also be used as a noun.

that's all, or at least the highlights, imo

Vic (Vic), Thursday, 13 February 2003 12:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually Xgau did call momus a dandy, directly. A "snobbish dandy," if it were. Sorry, but you can't expect me to get all 652 posts down flawlessly, could you?

did this help?

Vic (Vic), Thursday, 13 February 2003 12:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Nice job, Vic. But you could have said more about the Nipper's post. Even when it was incomprehensible, it had an air of enlightenment.

the pinefox, Thursday, 13 February 2003 12:58 (twenty-three years ago)

vic u r a genius

(can you help me finish my book?)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 13 February 2003 13:21 (twenty-three years ago)

if its about Pope Gregory or sexual egomania, sure. Otherwise, for a small fee

Vic (Vic), Thursday, 13 February 2003 13:28 (twenty-three years ago)

You missed the bit where I analysed the deep structure of Mark's notes to the milkman!

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 13 February 2003 13:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not perfect or Ned Raggett or anything.

But you try, my dear sir, and that's a good thing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 February 2003 14:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Who said so? I had to put that disclimer up front and center to make sure everyone remember that I'm not trying.

My dad is balding, the 'roots' of the futility are hereditary, ima 'fraid.

Vic (Vic), Thursday, 13 February 2003 14:23 (twenty-three years ago)

That's one hell of a thread...the wacky world of ILM.

Dan Perry had a problem with the sentence (I'm going to pare it down a bit) "Surrounding outtakes is back-in-the-day recommended to Missy and Tim and four autobiographical pieces." He maintained that the verb "is" was used incorrectly because "back-in-the-day," used as a noun, is singular in form (although plural in meaning) whereas "four autobiographical pieces" is plural in both form and meaning.

I asked a couple of writers and English teachers about this sentence. Consensus was pretty much that while Dan is technically correct, he's kinda wrong here since what the "Dean" meant, and which is perfectly clear (once you get past the lame-ass "back-in-the-day" attempt at hip-ness) is:

"Surrounding outtakes IS ALL THIS: back-in-the-day (plural in meaning) and four autobiographical pieces (plural)."

As an editor friend of mine put it, "You could go back and ask him to re-write the sentence to make it 'correct' but it wouldn't be worth it, would it? The sense is there, plus Christgau wants to put this song-title reference in there, so let him have his fun! Christgau is an assured enough writer, with enough rapport with his intended audience, to get away with something like that. You have to bend a little. So, Dan Perry is technically right but on the bigger issue here, I think he's wrong." This is from a buddy of mine who, as book-editor, has worked w/Christgau, Marcus, R. Meltzer, etc. And no, he's not interested in any of your book ideas...

Rest of thread takes on populist vs. elitist criticism, Pauline Kael as either condescending fake-woman-of-the-people or not, class issues, etc. Made my head hurt. Now I guess I have to actually listen to Nas...

chicxulub (chicxulub), Thursday, 13 February 2003 14:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I'M TECHNICALLY RIGHT!!!

Your editor friend is a bad editor, BTW, since the sense of the sentence obviously ISN'T there seeing as half the people who looked at that sentence didn't recognize "back-in-the-day" as a noun.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 February 2003 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

my summary was shorter, nya nya-nya na na (see why i didnt even bother posting on most of the thread?)

Vic (Vic), Thursday, 13 February 2003 14:47 (twenty-three years ago)

(I think my point wasn't to insult your friend chicxulub [and I apologize for that] as much as it was to say that the fact that you are a successful, popular writer should mean that your editor should allow you to publish shitty, confusing sentences. I'm totally with Frank Kogan on this one.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 February 2003 14:50 (twenty-three years ago)

link

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 13 February 2003 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

he hasn't even HEARD my book idea.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 13 February 2003 18:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan, that sentence is technically incorrect due to what I take to be a missing "not."

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 13 February 2003 18:43 (twenty-three years ago)

That said, you are still right about the original sentence and this so-called editor person is absolutely not.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 13 February 2003 18:44 (twenty-three years ago)

(When I first started on that sentence I thought for a second that "back-in-the-day" was meant to be an adverb!)

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 13 February 2003 18:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Personally I have no idea what that mysterious sentence is meant to be saying. It's not just a problem with one word; the whole thing is opaque. And as far as I can see, ungrammatical too.

the pinefox, Thursday, 13 February 2003 18:57 (twenty-three years ago)

A glowing editorial career cut short before it could really begin...

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 February 2003 18:58 (twenty-three years ago)

is this the thread where people are going to reenact what they said on the other thread?

James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 13 February 2003 19:33 (twenty-three years ago)

We're putting on a musical next year.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 13 February 2003 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, this way we can all comment on the parts of it we weren't around for and couldn't think of a sensible way to make reference to the next day. (For example my adverb comment.)

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 13 February 2003 19:36 (twenty-three years ago)

(I thought it was an adverb too! And I kept getting hung up on "surrounding" verb or adj? ie "These surrounding outtakes are" vs. "For one to surround outtakes is" [but surrounded with what?])

g.cannon (gcannon), Thursday, 13 February 2003 19:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I am now waiting for the request to summarize this thread.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 February 2003 19:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Summary: Momus is British and he doesn't understand Americans.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 February 2003 19:49 (twenty-three years ago)

My personal summary: Amateurist has a modest, sensible idea for a thread; it starts out strong, people genuinely attempting to understand the sentence; then diverts into a broader, fascinating, but somehow disappointing argument about the worth of Christgau and American critics and their notions of popular, unpopular, elite, etc., in which erudite arguments (with varying degrees of transparency) are made by Momus and Mark S., nabisco and Jerry the Nipper; Amateurist chimes in foolishly, himself forgetting the ostensible purpose for which he set up the thread, and later rebukes himself on the same thread for doing same, but in such a way as to irritate Jody which he regrets; thread continues for a long time following this broad argument about Xgau and the world of music criticism; Dan Perry occasionally interjects, still angered and puzzled by the original sentence in question; thread grinds to a halt; Frank Kogan revives it, keenly aware of its intended purpose. I adore Frank's post because he is doing what I hope people might try to do: rewrite Xgau's sentence, paying attention to what ideas might be lost in trying to render it more comprehensible and/or conventional.

Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 13 February 2003 19:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Amateurist, you forgot the bit where Frank Kogan makes my head explode and persuades Jerry to include my (t.A.T.u.( review in the next CTCL.

Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 13 February 2003 20:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Ok, so maybe Amateurist's was more eloquent than mine (it's his damned thread after all, of course he would understand it better - oh, and he forgot the Markettes, too), but Ned, was me' summaree just not good enough for you? :/

Vic (Vic), Friday, 14 February 2003 13:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank you. Maybe ILM could start running a precis service like this on a regular basis for those of us with slightly dodgy servers?

Jerry (Jerry), Sunday, 16 February 2003 21:39 (twenty-three years ago)


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